Does good design polarize the playing public?

[Dan Herrmann]

Jim - good point - OM could end up being a poster child for this topic.

Eric - To your friend - what's wrong with 3 or 4 putting?  Put it in the wrong part of the green and you pay a price.  Your friend's opinion is interesting because I'll bet that he finds Augusta National to be perfection, but 3 and 4 putts are common there if you're on the wrong part of the green

[Richard Choi]

Anything really good is generally polarizing. It is because something new and original usually takes awhile before it is accepted by the general public.

If something is decent, but is just another derivative of the current popular design trend, it will be more accepted by the general public but won't generate any excitement with the "hard-core" crowd. When something different, unique, and good comes out, it is usually rejected by the general public because it is different from what they are used to. However, the "hard-core" crowd gravitate towards it because it is something refreshing and eventually that works down to the general public (at which point the "hard-core" crowd has already moved on to the next in thing).

That pretty much happens in every facet of the society from arts, music, restaurants, technology, etc. I would expect golf courses to work the same way.

[Eric Smith]

Eric - To your friend - what's wrong with 3 or 4 putting?  Put it in the wrong part of the green and you pay a price.  Your friend's opinion is interesting because I'll bet that he finds Augusta National to be perfection, but 3 and 4 putts are common there if you're on the wrong part of the green

Maybe Dan.  Its 3 or 4 putting from 10 feet that I remember causing me to duck from a hurled Scotty Cameron though!

[Sean_A]

I think designs that are eventually considered great can only be polarizing in limited parts.  Much of the course is gonna have to conform to some level of what most consider great or it will never make it to greatness as a whole.  I don't buy that a course like Tobacco Road will eventually be called great simply because too many elements of too many holes are polarizing.  For instance, I am a big fan of the course, but I admire the boldness and audacity of the design more than I do the design itself.  We need Tobacco Roads to keep archies honest and on their toes - then maybe great courses have a better chance to be built. 

Ciao

[Matthew Runde]

To paraphrase George C. Thomas, certain aspects of a course may initially be condemned, but may later be revered.

[JC Jones]

I would say no. 

Of the Golfweek top 10 US lists I think Augusta is the only classic course one could argue is polarizing. 

Of the modern list, Whistling Straits and Shadow Creek are the only two that could be considered polarizing.  I wouldn't even call Shadow Creek polarizing in the sense that I think the thread intends.


1.         Cypress Point Club  9.54
2.         Pine Valley Golf Club           9.50
3.         Shinnecock Hills Golf Club  9.22
4.         Merion Golf Club (East)      9.11
5.         Oakmont Country Club       9.01   
6.         National Golf Links of America      9.01
7.         Pebble Beach Golf Links     9.00
8.         Crystal Downs          8.90
9.         Augusta National Golf Club            8.87
10.      Prairie Dunes Country Club            8.65


1.         Sand Hills Golf Club     9.38
2.         Pacific Dunes  9.23
3.         Whistling Straits (Straits)       8.69
4.         Pete Dye Golf Club      8.30
5.         Bandon Dunes 8.28
6.         Friar’s Head    8.27
7.         Sebonack Golf Club     8.18
8.         Ballyneal         8.17
9.         The Golf Club   8.14
10.       Shadow Creek Golf Club          8.11

Jason,

I'd say the Modern list is polarizing (maybe not the golf courses themselves).  I cant figure out why 3,4&5 are even in the top 10 and certainly not ahead of Friar's head, Ballyneal and Bandon Trails.  (This, of course, is based entirely on the general opinion here as I have only played BT and BD of those courses).

[Jaeger Kovich]

What I think polarizes the public can be summarized in a few words....

"TRUMP"

"Links Style"

and as avg. joe friend likes to say "Groomed"


I find the people, like my friend, who play golf to "relax" or "get out of the house" are so blinded by the buzz words, tall grass, waterfalls and golf carts, they simply cants see good architecture.

[J Sadowsky]

  Dan you mentioned Hanse. I was polorizez by Rustic Canyon. It was much better than I thought it would be. Driving on the road up to the course I thought "what can you build here?". WOW...polorized. I love the way he used mounding to obstruct views and isolate the holes.

  Anthony

When I played Rustic Canyon, I played with a good golfer who thought it was just a typical rundown muni, nothing special but an "okay value."

[Dan Herrmann]

Jaeger,
And that's OK.  That's why black velvet Elvis paints sell

Let's go back 100 years...  Was Oakmont polarizing?  Sure was.

Maybe it's challenging the dominant paradigm that is the key to polarization.