Pacific Dunes vs. Old Macdonald

[Brent Carlson]

It's pretty clear that Pacific Dunes is the current favorite course of GCAers at Bandon.


Three years from now, after many have been able to play OM; which course will be more revered on this discussion board and why?

[Tim Bert]

Shouldn't we at least wait until some of us that so adore PD have played the 18 at OM?

Sure some have played 10 holes and may have even seen all 18 but it seems a bit premature to speculate. Most of us would be guessing based on photos, hearsay, or limited play.

I am personally excited by the fact that there's even a chance I might like it better than Pacific Dunes, my favorite course amongst those I've played more than once.

I will gladly opine next June.

[Ben Sims]

Tim,

You're no fun.  I'm in!!  If CNN can speculate on a Palin ticket in 2012, then I can speculate on a golf course opening next June that I've played on the same day as Pac.

I think that it could be a forgone conclusion that on this DG specifically, Old Mac will be more revered in three years.  The reason I say this is because of the overwhelming love for NGLA on this website compared to the standard adoration for Pine Valley.  I compare PD to PV for routing, crescendo, and magic of the journey.  I compare Old Mac to NGLA for the strategy, complete variety of the holes and the sheer fun of the course.  To sum it up--quite poorly--PV and PD are journeys of discovery and wonder, Old Mac and NGLA are journeys of the unfiltered spirit of golf. 

Mind you I have never played PV or NGLA and this is all conjecture based on what I've read and studies about them.  But that is how I compare Old Mac and Pac Dunes after seeing them together.  I was in wonder of the routing and the journey at Pac, I was in wonder of the golf holes at Old Mac.  From what Mr. Bahto has said, the remaining 8 may be better than the completed 10.

[Rob Rigg]

Having seen ten holes, and some of the others from a distance, I am certain that OM will be my personal favorite at the resort.

It will probably be slightly ahead of PD which I love, which is slightly ahead of BT which I also love, but the scale, aesthetics, myriad of challenges and pure links feeling of the course is absolutely magical. The tee shot over the Sahara bunker will be one of the best at the resort, seeing the Hell bunker will continue to make me giddy like a kid round after round, the view from Ocean hole is incredible, the Biarritz melds so wonderfully with the setting that it makes me excited just to think about it, ripping a drive on the Hogsback and then walking past those bunkers, the greens!!! - and so on and so forth, an epic course.

I have a lot of thoughts about PD that are similar, but I am probably slightly (very slightly) less passionate about it.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I think Old Mac is going to take the cake, but.... I think the thing to remember for posters on GCA, is the AWW factor. Everyone who has gone out to Bandon purposely to play the 10, are just going to be in such shock the first time around, the ratings are going to be so inaccurate!! The real test will be the articulate golfer who doesn't know his Alps to his Redan!

That said...
Old Mac wins for me to! It was the most fun I have ever had playing golf.

[Brent Carlson]

Tim - It's all in good fun.  I can't wait for OM to open. 

Pacific Dunes is in my top 5 worldwide, so OM must be something special for others project it ahead of PD.

[Kalen Braley]

Its threads like this that want to make me hurl. 

Can we at least get the entire course open and playing for a year or something 1st?

[Ben Sims]

For those of you blasting us for comparing the two.  Brent said this in his original post

Three years from now, after many have been able to play OM; which course will be more revered on this discussion board and why?

He didn't say "right now" or "should OM be ranked higher than Pac Dunes in GD's latest list" or anything as ludicrous as that.  It is conjecture, speculation, and downright fun.

But blast away, I am sure it's more productive to talk about Kavanaugh and which mule was the better earthmover at Merion than this thread.

[Rob Rigg]

Kalen,

It's funny how threads like this make people want to hurl - apparently - but threads that have nothing to do with golf courses or GCA make people want to participate and post a million times.

At least this thread will lead to the discussion of a great course in PD and the bones of a great course in OM.

I can only assume that the threads on JK, the LPGA, or any one of the other OT threads currently onsite would make you want to hurl . . . repeatedly and then get your stomach pumped?

[Tom Huckaby]

I am pretty much with Kalen.  Not that this thread makes me want to hurl.... but correct me if I am wrong, but I read this as a question not about either course, but more about the biases that may or may not exist in this forum.  And of course whereas I am FAR from reticent to participate in OT threads, well... this one seems odd to me.

Now if you really do want to discuss the two courses and how great they are, cool.  A few people have seen OM so far and they can comment.  PD has been discussed to death, but of course there's never too much about that fantastic course.

I just don't read that as the question at all....

TH

[Rob Rigg]

"Three years from now, after many have been able to play OM; which course will be more revered on this discussion board and why?"

Interesting, I read this question as a request to discuss why one may be more revered than another.

For someone to be able to comment, having played both courses would be helpful, but pics of OM have been posted so it is possible to speculate (which we like to do as a group from time to time).

Thus, my response of OM was based on my experience there versus PD.

At the end of the day, that resort is going to have 4 of the best courses in the world which is freakin' crazy.

Since I have less that 1k posts, I am probably still naive about the subtle undertones of the site and questions that are posted to the group on it.

[Ben Sims]

Kalen and Huck,

Okay, fair enough.  Go back to discussing Jaka and Fish Bar's and leave the real golf talk to us.  Though we may have many less posts, we certainly seem capable of discussing golf courses...

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen and Huck,

Okay, fair enough.  Go back to discussing Jaka and Fish Bar's and leave the real golf talk to us.  Though we may have many less posts, we certainly seem capable of discussing golf courses...

Ben - fair enough.

I still don't read this as a question about either course.  I sure as heck don't read it as "real golf talk."  When we get to that, hopefully you'll allow me to participate.
 

Rob - this has nothing to do with quantity of posts... heck, we each read the same question and took it differently.  I quite sincerely read it as I said.

Oh well.  My feeling is from pictures OM looks damn good.  Others have said it has a great chance to be the best course at the resort.  Maybe it will be.  Can't say much more than that.  But why is it important how it is viewed IN HERE - as the question asks?

How about we rephrase the question to say:

In three years, which course will be seen as better?

That doesn't limit it to THIS FORUM.

But maybe I read way too much into things.

[Ian Andrew]

I get the thread – but don’t see how you can compare.

I was there this spring and played both courses.

I've played OM(10) – and walked the course again the next day. Ken and Jim encouraged Dan and I to walk the other holes from the tee to green (despite them being seeded). We could not walk the 17th fairway which was freshly seeded – but the rest was fine. The 18th was rough shaped but certainly not finished - so I have no idea of the hole. I doubt many have seen OM closer than we did – and I can't compare the two courses?

Secondly I saw Pacific Dunes when it opened. It has changed and evolved a great deal since it first opened. OM has a lot of growing in and evolving to do before it is fully matured.

[Eric Smith]

I applaud the guys on here, like Ben, Tim and Rob who are passionate about what they've seen, what they have 'felt' while on the 10 holes of the Old Macdonald course (I always imagine hearing George Bahto's voice saying small "d"! when typing it out...)

Though I have never been and hope to make the trip in May, I have a feeling that I too would be on here making the same type predictions that they are had I been out there this year to see it, especially as it is coming to life. 

After reading George's book some 4 or 5 years ago I have been in a CBM trance and I believe I likely won't awake until May 2010 when I get to Bandon.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen and Huck,

Okay, fair enough.  Go back to discussing Jaka and Fish Bar's and leave the real golf talk to us.  Though we may have many less posts, we certainly seem capable of discussing golf courses...

Ben,

I appreciate the enthusiasm, I think its cool....but when everything that comes out of your mouth/keyboard is homerism for a certain architect and his work, it starts to get very reptitive.  We get that you like his work, I do too, but at what point is it just too much? There is a ton of other interesting stuff out there, that is worthy of your time, efforts, and comments.

You haven't been around long, but even TD made a post last year saying the courses at Bandon, specifically PD, get talked to death and wished the forum would discuss them less.

P.S.  And for the record, I only made two measly posts about John Kavanaugh.   

[Ben Sims]

Kalen,

I haven't been around as a member very long...that's true.  You are also correct to call me a homer, because that's obvious as well.  Unfortunately, I haven't seen a ton of "top" golf courses in the world.  The ones I have seen are dominated by a "certain architect".  Even one of my sentimental faves that doesn't have his name on it, has alas been renovated by his firm.  I have had my best moments on golf courses on the layouts created by that firm and one other, which of course is the "other" preferred architectural firm on this site.

It is primarily why I gravitated towards this site.  I promise I would join on on the Merion threads if I had been there.  I would gladly talk Raynor templates if I had been to Shoreacres or Camargo.  But I must defer my interest in architecture to the catalyst that was Bandon.  I am sorry, I truly am. 

Whatever, I'm over being called a homer.  It's obvious, I embrace it, and I will continue to enjoy the brand of golf that my homerism provides. 

[George Pazin]

Secondly I saw Pacific Dunes when it opened. It has changed and evolved a great deal since it first opened.

Could you expand on this?

[Eric Smith]

...Unfortunately, I haven't seen a ton of "top" golf courses in the world.  The ones I have seen are dominated by a "certain architect".  Even one of my sentimental faves that doesn't have his name on it, has alas been renovated by his firm. 

...not a bad problem to have!  I've played exactly 2 by RGD and one is NLE. 

I'm planning to join you, along with Gray, pre-GCA event at the Sheep Ranch next May and very much look forward to the experience.

[Michael Dugger]

I'm sure Tom Doak is just loving this thread.

The compare and contrast stuff just doesn't work, people.

Old Mac is going to be a helluva course, to be sure, but at the end of the day it'll just be another course on the property.

Very cool, sweet.....epic......all that and more.

Everyone has an opinion...........some folks prefer Bandon Trails..............many love Pacific...............

Nobody is right...............nobody is wrong...............

From what I saw.......I don't think Old Mac will be as thrilling as Pacific. 

But I like blowouts...........and knarly wasteland type stuff like the right side of PD #13 and in front of #2...etc.

and that's the moral of the story.........we all have preferences........and that's all they are....preferences....there is no room for objectivity in art.

[Ben Sims]

Michael,

Well said.  I'll take my medicine and move on.  Point taken, time to study some other stuff. 

[Dave Jarrard]

I too had the pleasure of playing 10 holes at OM at the end of October. 

I played OM on a very benign day, no wind and warm.  This course will be a beast when the winds howl.

I can not wait for more people to play and provide their experience of OM.

I agree with Michael, PD will rule.  That being said, I prefer BT, so what does that tell you.

[Jed Peters]

I would rather play 2 10 hole rounds at OM than 18 at Pac.

[Tom Huckaby]

I would rather play 2 10 hole rounds at OM than 18 at Pac.

Holey Moley.. that is one HUGE statement.  I know you rather liked Pacific Dunes, Jed.  Wow.

But this is what I referred to before.... others have said similar things... who knows what will be the feeling three years from now.. and Michael Dugger does sum it up all well... but if a guy like Jed can make a statement like this... it just tells me I gotta get my ass up there.

TH

[Michael Dugger]

Maybe Jed said that, Tom, because he's played Pacific Dunes 75 times and Old Mac is brand new.

In that light, I'm not so "blown away" by his comment, and you've contributed to generating B.S. "gossip" by saying what you said.

"Holy Cow, did you hear Jed Peters said he'd rather play Old Mac twice than Pacific Dunes."  (It must be better)

Of course you need to get yer ass up to Old Mac, Huck, OF COURSE IT'S AWESOME....

context is the word of the day.