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Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Turnberry's Par 4s
« on: July 15, 2009, 10:52:31 PM »
Gentlemen,

While perusing opengolf.com I came across the course information for Turnberry.

Here are the par 4s:

1. 354 yards
2. 428
3. 489
5. 474
8. 454
9. 449
10. 456
12. 451
13. 410
14. 448
16. 455
18. 461

For those of you who have played Turnberry - how can this be the #1 in GB & I when the par 4s are so similar in length?  Does this not get monotonous.  I find it hard to believe this course better than the Old Course or Dornoch; both of which have great diversity in holes.

Jeff Taylor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 11:26:09 PM »
I am not an architect but I have played Turnberry and The Old Course. I never felt that I was playing just another 420 yard hole @ Turnberry. The topgraphy of Turnberry is much more varied than The Old Course (which relies on green complexes for diversity). I can't imagine playing Turnberry if it had The Old Course's greens. Not to mention, driving the golf ball is much more iomportant @ Turnberry. I played a wicked hook @ The Old Course (not by choice) and never paid for my sins like I would have at Turnberry. Take a look at #'s 9 and 10 at St. Andrews. Without weather, they are city courses that would have requested their money back from the architect.

CJ Carder

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 11:44:59 PM »
Brent,

This is the danger of judging the book by its cover - just looking at the yardages tells you very little about how the holes actually play.  Jeff hit on a big part of it, that Turnberry has a lot of topographical interest.  But whereas in the US you can often get by with the assumption that similar length = bland or monotonous or lacking in interest, you just simply can't do that overseas, particularly in Scotland.  A lot of this has to do with the wind - we just aren't influenced by it that much here in the US.  The best way I can describe this is to group the holes according to the direction of play:

Holes 1 and 3 play south
Holes 2 and 5 play towards the north
8 tends towards the northwest
9 and 10 move back to the northeast, with 10 providing one of the more difficult driving tests on the course
12 heads southwest
13 makes a left turn back towards the east
and you make a u-turn and head west on 14 back towards the coastline
16 heads in a southeasterly direction and I would wager is the most difficult green on the course, with the added difficultly of a burn fronting the green
and finally 18 is the nearest thing to a dogleg at Turnberry with the teeshot moving southeast and the approach to the green coming from the west

So while the holes may have a similar raw yardage, notice the constant variation in direction.  The wind of the day will play a big impact on how the holes actually play. 

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 12:16:16 AM »
When I played Turnberry the first time, I hit driver, 4 iron into 1. On two I hit 3 wood over the green from the tee.

With wind, distances mean nothing.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 12:21:19 AM »
Anyone dissing Turnberry must be soulness. it is a grand canvass that has given us some of the best golf in modern Open history.

Bob

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 12:26:34 AM »
For those of you who have played Turnberry - how can this be the #1 in GB & I when the par 4s are so similar in length? 
I never believed it was No. 1. In fact, I would not even have it in my GB top 10. (Not that that means anything)

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 12:28:10 AM »
Anyone dissing Turnberry must be soulness. it is a grand canvass that has given us some of the best golf in modern Open history.

Bob
Yes Bob, I am probably soulness (or soul-less, as the case may be).

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 01:02:08 AM »
Definitely not dissing Turnberry - have not played the course myself. 

I'll take your word for the wind making up for the numerous 450ish yard holes.  If you all say it's true, it usually is, as this discussion group is really well informed.  Let's see how it plays in the Open.  I want to see it really fast and firm.

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2009, 08:49:02 AM »
Dan Jenkins agrees with you Mr. Summerell. Have a read of this -

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2009/07/britishopen_turnberry_jenkins

Me - I'm in Mr. Huntley's corner.

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2009, 08:54:21 PM »
Dan Jenkins agrees with you Mr. Summerell. Have a read of this -

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2009/07/britishopen_turnberry_jenkins

Me - I'm in Mr. Huntley's corner.

MM


Saying it's not in my GB top 10 is not that big a deal. Firstly, there are plenty of wonderful courses in GB. If it's in the 2nd ten it's still an excellent course. Secondly, I tend to like different things to the majority of the golfing public. I'd prefer to play North Berwick (West), Cruden Bay, Brora or Prestwick before Turnberry, but I know most of the golfing public would choose Turnberry.

Of course, if you were available for mine & Terry's 2011 Scottish sojourn I could show you how right I am. ;D (Man, that sounded like JJ)

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 10:46:57 PM »
Many of the front side holes are down between dunes.I never got a feel for how long a hole there was.That 9th tee is a beautiful spot.Is the aiming rock still there? It was clear enough today to see across to Northern Ireland.Did the telecast show that at all?

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Turnberry's Par 4s
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2009, 11:36:21 PM »
I would say Turnberry is most often chosen as the favorite by my non-GCA friends that travel to Scotland.  I do not agree, but it is a special place.