[Ken Moum]

According to Dourg Ferguson--What does the Treehouse think of it?

Personally I think it's the coolest innovation since half-par holes.

Notes: USGA to change par in the middle of an event?
By DOUG FERGUSON
Associated Press
BETHESDA, Md. The U.S. Open typically plays as a par 70, which requires converting a couple of par 5s into par 4s. There are a few par 71s, such as Torrey Pines, where USGA setup man Mike Davis wisely decided to leave the 18th as a par 5, leading to one of the most memorable finishes.
 
Par has not been decided for Chambers Bay outside Seattle, site of the 2015 U.S. Open.
 
It could be a par 70. It could be a par 71.
 
It very likely will be both.
 
“You can’t change par in the middle of a tournament,” Tiger Woods said, thinking aloud as he tried to process the possibility.
 
Considering that Davis isn’t afraid to break the unwritten rules, the possibility is very real.
 
“One thing I’m absolutely positive we’ll do in the future, perhaps in 2015 at Chambers Bay, is play a hole certain days as a par 4, and certain days as a par 5,” Davis said in a telephone interview over the weekend.
 
Davis mentioned the first and 18th holes at Chambers Bay, which he felt could be played as either a par 4 or a par 5.
 
“We would hate to make a decision one way or another, because they could be such a good par 5, and such a good par 4,” he said. “I would hate to give up playing it multiple ways because we have a set par.”
 
That could be a first – a U.S. Open where par for the four days would be 282.
 
“Par is just a number,” Paul Goydos said with a shrug when told of the concept. “All you care about is the total score. What wins is 277, not 3 under or 5 under.
 
He figured big hitters would have an advantage on a par 4 that measured 525 yards, such as the seventh hole at Bethpage Black. Turn that into a par 5, and big hitters still would have an advantage by reaching it in two with less club.
 
“Someone will complain either way,” Goydos said.
 
There surely could be some complaints on this one, for no other reason than trying to change par once the tournament starts.
 
“It might be perceived as goofy,” Davis conceded. “But all we’re looking for his the low 72-hole score. That doesn’t change.”

[Jason McNamara]

And... will the USGA announce the change in advance?

Cool way to bring different hazards into play on different days, or account for varying wind/rain (if they choose not to give advance notice).

Like it.

[Kevin_Reilly]

17 at Olympic Lake could play as a 4 or 5 just by changing the tees used.

[Tom Huckaby]

17 at Olympic Lake could play as a 4 or 5 just by changing the tees used.

yes sir!
We were discussing that the other day.. it will be very curious which way they go for USOpen.. this is also a candidate for one day 470, one day 515... and man would that freak the pros out... which I think is a GREAT thing.

[Richard Choi]

Here is a helpful overhead view of the two holes in question. As you can see both holes have about 130 yards of variability in teeing grounds available.

[John Moore II]

I see nothing wrong with playing it different depending on the day. It's no different than changing the distance of a hole a large amount during the event. They did it last year at the Open at Torrey, and at the Amateur at Pinehurst. Play the hole as a mid/long par 4 on Thursday and Friday and play the hole as a reachable par 5 on the weekend. That would work to speed up play somewhat during the weekday rounds with the full field.

Or, you could play #1 as a par 5 on Thursday and Saturday and #18 as a par 5 on Friday and Sunday. That would keep the total par the same for the whole week, but with individual holes different.

[Matt_Ward]

BB for the most recent of Opens could have had the 7th play as a par-4 (which it did) and as a pr-5 (which it plays as during regular play). The par-5 holes does bring into play the massive bunker which is nothing more than show when used a par-4. I think it's a fine concept and should be implemented for the right hole(s).

[Randy Thompson]

In a couple of recent designs, I try to have a big difference in the back tees and the front tees on the par´s fives, give the option of playing reachable and unreachable par five´s in two shots depending on the course set up and the presnt enviromental conditions of the day. Especially if the land dictates a par five on eighteen,,I like it even more, so why not not give the tournament official the option..more power to thinking outside the box and present all the allternatives possible to the players and present situations where you bring out the best players through deversity. Got my vote!!

[Carl Johnson]

According to Dourg Ferguson--What does the Treehouse think of it?

Personally I think it's the coolest innovation since half-par holes.
 
“Par is just a number,” Paul Goydos said with a shrug when told of the concept. “All you care about is the total score. What wins is 277, not 3 under or 5 under.

I'm with Paul. 

[Phil_the_Author]

Matt,

Regarding the 7th hole on the Black, last fall, when there was still talk about building a tee for a drivable par-4, I recommended that they build a new tee about 325 from the green at the back end of the main fairway on the left side. I also recommended that they play it as a drivable par-4 at 325 one day, the long par-4 at 525 another and from the real back championship tee at 600 another. Sunday's round would be on the hole that was the most exciting...

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

The driveable hole concept is a fine one -- but it doesn't fit the 7th since the hole is plenty better either as a par-5 (which it should have been played as for at least two (2) rounds) or as a par-4.

Save the driveable par-4 idea for the 18th -- you know the hole right ?

[Jason Connor]

I think this is just further proof that par is irrelevant.

I understand that scores relative to par make tracking the standings easier during televised events.

And I'm ok with playing the hole as a 4 one day and a 5 the next.  But by this logic we should count a tough par 4 with an average of 4.6 as a par 5 -- because it'd make score keeping a bit easier.

[PCCraig]

Par means nothing as far as strategy goes...quite frankly there really is no such thing as a par-5 for the best players in the world (Tiger/Phil/etc...) as if they make anything more than a 4 they loose ground on the field.

[Mike Nuzzo]

" leading to one of the most memorable finishes. "

How did par lead to one of the more memorable finishes?

[Tim Bert]

I'm still stuck here...

"The U.S. Open typically plays as a par 70, which requires converting a couple of par 5s into par 4s. There are a few par 71s, such as Torrey Pines, where USGA setup man Mike Davis wisely decided to leave the 18th as a par 5, leading to one of the most memorable finishes."

How did the decision to make it a par 5 lead to one of the most memorable finishes?  Why is a 4 on a par 5 dramatic and memorable but make the hole 20 yards shorter and call it a par 4 and suddenly that same 4 becomes anti-climactic?  It doesn't seem like it was the par that caused the drama.  It was the close race down the wire and the way Tiger played the final hole.

[Tim Bert]

Mike Nuzzo - It took me 5 minutes longer to say the same thing as you.  Nice, efficient work.

[Kalen Braley]

The difference between it being a par 4 or 5 is...

As a 5 the announcers can fawn/oodle/praise idolize Tiger for making an epic birdie, instead of..

As a 4 only noting that Tiger made a dutiful/expected/ho hum par.

So in the end its about making heroes of the likes of Tiger, instead of saying Rocco choked by making bogey 5.

[Tim Bert]

The difference between it being a par 4 or 5 is...

As a 5 the announcers can fawn/oodle/praise idolize Tiger for making an epic birdie, instead of..

As a 4 only noting that Tiger made a dutiful/expected/ho hum par.

So in the end its about making heroes of the likes of Tiger, instead of saying Rocco chocked by making bogey 5.

In that case, they should just make next year's par 75 and keep it the same length.  They could increase the par of each of the final 5 holes by one - imagine the "birdies" down the stretch!

[Matt_Ward]

Guys:

Total score is what counts.

There are many holes during savage Open weather days when a hole that is 450 yards is likely a par-5 and when a hole that is 550 yards is really a par-4.

The only thing that counts is the strategic elements the players must decide upon -- no doubt the weather / wind elements and what is needed at that point in the event decides plenty.

The "par" designation is nothing more than that -- a designation. The USGA lowers the par to 70 so as to knock down the number of subPAR scores made that day / week.

[Philippe Binette]

As long as they are sure that everybody plays the modified hole in the same day, I have no problem... On a situation like Bethpage this year, it could too much of an advantage.

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