Old Marsh (Wells, Maine) w/ pictures

[Dan_Callahan]

In between a seemingly unending string of thunderstorms, I got out to play two relatively new Brian Silva designed courses. I'm still forming an opinion on Renaissance Golf Club in Haverhill, Mass, which has some very cool holes and a terrific practice facility. Yesterday, I had perfect weather for a round at Old Marsh Country Club. I played the course once last year, right after it opened, and was unimpressed. The layout seemed forced and very tight, with environmental restrictions impeding play on almost every hole. Well, a year later and a second viewing left me with a completely different impression. I am at a loss to explain why my opinion has changed so drastically. It was certainly not as windy this time around, and I was much straighter off the tee, so that could be part of it. But I think it is more a case of having some idea what is out there, knowing where to miss and what to avoid, and a certain level of affection that comes with familiarity.

Anyway, the day got off to a not-so-promising start. The great weather attracted hordes of golfers which, in Maine, means lots and lots and lots of old people. The earliest tee time I could get was 11:30, and my friend and I got paired up with another twosome. Ahead of us was a very old man with twin knee braces who took about 20 minutes to walk to the first tee. In my mind, I was already preparing myself for a 6 hour round of countless frustrations. After watching the guy top two into the muck 10 feet in front of the tee box, he finally hit a high flare and was off. His partner, a slightly younger lady, hit it long and straight about 2 seconds after his ball hit the fairway. Cool. However, after the first hole they moved right along, and we finished all 18 in about 4 hours. The pace of play was totally unexpected, and that alone would get me back even if I didn't really like the course.

The 1st hole is a 413 yard par 4, with bunkers that pinch the fairway at about 260 . . . a common theme on this course. Driver gets you a wedge approach, but the better play for my was a 2 hybrid to the fat part of the fairway, leaving an 8-iron in.


The 2nd hole is the best on the course. It is called Alps, and you can see why. A huge mound with a bee hive of bunkers obstructs the view to the punchbowl green. the left side of the fairway leaves a blind approach. the right side gives a better view but the green tilts away from you, making a front right hole location impossible to attack. At only 375 yards, it is again a hybrid for me, although it is possible to try to fly the mound with driver. It is downhill to the green once that obstruction is cleared.


The 3rd hole is one I didn't much care for the first time around. It was better on second play, but is still 100 percent target golf. A 530-yard par 5 with hazard all the way down the right, it is again a hybrid off the tee, since there's no way I'm going for this green in two. This view is from in front of a left-hand fairway bunker. The fairway wraps around the water to the left and the layup is nervewracking. I hit to 100 yards, leaving a sand-wedge in.


The 4th brings options back into play. At only 350 yards, the hole moves around a large bunker on the right. Last time I was here, I hit driver to fly the hazard on the right and then discovered there is water down by the green on the left. This time, I hit hybrid and had a wedge in.


The 5th is a very cool 410-yard par 4 that bends sharply to the left. A bunker runs down the inside of the dogleg, and there is lots of room out on the right. Again, hit a driver and cut the angle or play safe away from the green. The greensite is the best thing about the hole. This picture sucks, but it is a Redan green that is very hard to hold from the wrong angle. Playing from the left allows you to use the high right slope to slow the ball. Coming from the right, if you don't land short it will kick hard down the green and roll off the back.


At 185 yards, the first par 3 of the layout, the 6th, is a nice little hole. The safe play is to the open space on the left of the green. The hole yesterday was cut on the right, and I didn't even look at it on the tee.


The 7th, called Pinehurst, is tough. A 465-yard dogleg left, with a fairway that is easy to hit through. There is then a forced carry to a crazy green (and the reason the hole is called Pinehurst).


The 8th is a 210-yard par 3 with a green that falls off into bunkers on all sides except the front. Short isn't bad, although the green slopes severely from back to front, making it very difficult to putt to a back hole location.


Finishing off the front 9 is a 390-yard par 4. As with the 3rd hole, anything to the right is gone. There is a fairway bunker on the left that is a good aiming point. Fly the bunker and you are left with a pitching wedge to a receptive green.


The back 9 begins with a short par 4 of only 350 yards. A hybrid left a wedge to what is, in essence, an island green that is surrounded by bunkers and wetlands.


The 11th is a 390-yard par 4, which again called for a hybrid. I was left with 9-iron into a double-plateau green.


At only 360 yards but water all the way down the right, the 12th was yet another hybrid for me. It played downwind, and I was again left with a sand-wedge to a tricky green. The other option is driver down the right, which leaves a great angle for a short chip on. The last time I played here, I parked two in the water, so I chickened out having just bought a new sleeve of Pro-Vs. This view is from behind the green, looking back down the fairway.


The first par 5 on the back is a 535-yard Cape hole. It is about as severe a boomerang routing as I've ever seen. The hole wraps around gunk to the right, tempting you to take on the dogleg to give you a chance to go for the green in two. Because of how much the hole bends, you really need to be on the far left side of the fairway to not be blocked out. This was not my favorite hole, but I disliked it less the second time around. Below is a view from behind the green, and you can see how the hole is shaped in an almost semi-circle.


One of the best holes out there is called Temptation and, at only 300 yards, it is hard not to take a poke at the green. It bends hard to the left, with the left side of the green tucked behind trees. But the front right is sloped severely, with a huge backstop that will help propel a well-placed shot down to the hole. Of course, a 6-iron played to the fat part of the fairway leaves only a wedge, and a pushed drive will fly over the fairway and disappear. This is a very, very good short par 4. In this shot, you can barely make out the green to the left. There is a fairway bunker straight ahead on the right.


The 15th is the most difficult par 3 on the course. At 173 yards, it is all carry over water to a very shallow green. There is a bunker long that prevents most balls from going into the woods. For the average player, this hole is a nightmare. For the good player, it isn't bad, although into the wind it is very hard to get the yardage right. I think it is a hole that would get better with repeated play.


The 16th is another par 5 Cape hole (523 yards) that is shaped like a boomerang. This one is less severe, and the shot into the green is great.


The 17th might be the best par 3 on the course. At 215 yards, it is very long with water all the way down the left. However, the green, which is gigantic (largest in the state of Maine, our partner told us) has a raised right side that will funnel everything down to the left. So a low runner with a draw works perfectly and makes the hole play easier than its yardage would suggest. This is a view from behind the green looking back at the tee. The picture does not do justice to how much slope is in the ground.


The 18th, a 427-yard par 4, sucks. I hated it the first time around and I hated it on second play as well. The drive is way too tight. There is a bunker that blocks the right side of the fairway and trees hug the left. The fairway has enough mounds in it to keep the tee shot from getting any roll. And both times I've played it, it was into the wind. That leaves a long second shot over water to a green that can't be missed to the left or right (or short or long, for that matter). If I were to play here all the time, I would treat the hole as a par 5 and hit hybrid or 4-iron off the tee, lay up with a wedge, and then hit wedge into the green.



I would definitely recommend Old Marsh with the caveat that after my first play I wouldn't have recommended it to anyone. So if you go and don't like it, take some time and give it a second chance. It suffers from the same environmental restrictions that impact many of the new layouts in New England. However, there are some very cool Raynor-esque features that are worth a look. It was definitely fun to play two new Silva courses and see how he worked the template holes into the design. I especially liked the use of the Redan-style green on a par 4. I wouldn't put Old Marsh in the same league as Red Tail, the Ranch, Blackstone, or even Captains for public courses in New England, but it holds a firm spot in that second tier.

[Wyatt Halliday]

Dan,

Thanks for the frank commentary. Do you think #5 fits the bill for an earlier thread this week that mentioned Redan greens on par fours? I'm eager to hear about Renaissance once your opinion is formed.

I'm also interested in knowing if OM and the other public courses you mentioned are worth building a golf trip around. If not, which ones do you consider "must plays" if one was in the area to catch a game at Fenway or endulge at the Lobster Festival? Driving time/distance wouldn't matter.

Thanks,
Wyatt

[Mike Sweeney]

Dan,

Thanks for the tour. Not sure why the Moore Tour has not led me to it yet. I think you have played a bunch of New England Silva, how would both courses rank on his New England list?

[Dan_Callahan]

Mike,

Of the New England courses that Silva's done on his own, I've played Red Tail, Waverly Oaks, Rennaisance, and Old Marsh. I haven't played Black Rock (which is surprising since it is about 5 minutes from my parents' house) and Cape Cod National. I think Silva also did Captains in Brewster, which I have played.

Although much of his recent work has been more explicit in his mimicry of the Raynor engineered style, his New England courses don't come off as being unnatural in the way that Black Creek in Tennessee is (in a very cool way that I love, but definitely a harder, sharper look than his New England designs).

Those are some good courses to try to rank. Looking at design alone, I would put Red Tail at the top, followed by Waverly Oaks, Rennaisance, Old Marsh and Captains.

However, Waverly is disappearing, so we can remove that one. And if I were to look at courses I would want to play every day, I might go Red Tail, Captains (I've only played the Starboard course), Old Marsh, Renaissance.

And if you are a nut for course conditions and/or practice facility, I would put Renaissance at the top. I played well off the tee at Renaissance, and the course was very wet which is why I'm not sure I have a real opinion about it yet, but I think as an everyday course it is a ball-eating machine. There is that tall-ass grass that makes the bunkers look damn cool but that swallows balls right and left. There is talk about cutting it down, which would be too bad from an aesthetics standpoint but would make the course more playable.

There are some very neat aspects of Renaissance that I loved. Lots of optical illusions off the tee, where fairway bunkers look as though they are side by side when in fact there is a 50-yard distance between them, or bunkers that look like they sit on the edge of a green but are really 50-yards short. I love that stuff.

I'm guessing that another play of Renaissance under better conditions, with dry fairways and fast greens, might put it at the top of my list, although Red Tail has such a unique look to it that really appeals to me. I do wish Red Tail had a greater variety in the par 3s, and there are a few holes I don't love (the 8-10 stretch isn't fantastic, and I've never really liked 18), but 17 is a personal favorite, and 7 is one of the best par 4s anywhere.

I don't know. I'm not very good at differentiating between courses that I really like. What is interesting to me is that while Silva has incorporated some template holes, he has done so in ways that are unique to each course. So his Redan-inspired hole at Renaissance is a reverse Redan par 3, and at Old Marsh it is built into a par 4. He uses a Punch Bowl in an Alps-inspired design at ld Marsh and on a straight away par 4 at Old Marsh, although both (and the punch bowl at Red Tail) have blind shots to the green.

He seems to have a penchant for the bee hive of bunkers, but at least at Old Marsh they are actually something you need to negotiate. That cluster up on the hill on the par 5 second at Red Tail is bizarre kind of stupid and I wish they would just grass over the entire hill.

Not sure that convoluted and babbling reply helps much, except to say that they are all worth a play in my opinion.

Dan

[Dan_Callahan]

Wyatt,

I missed the thread about Redan greens on par 4s. But the 5th at Old Marsh is, to my untrained eye, a very good and faithful Redan. It slopes significantly from front right to back left. There is a large bunker complex carved into the front left hill. And short right is banked to allow a well-placed second shot to bounce on and down to the hole.

The big difference to me is that a par 3 Redan is set up to be played, for the most part, from a single teeing area. The cool thing about a Redan green on a par 4 is that you really need to position your tee shot to take advantage of the Redan features. Imagine a par 3 where the tee was looking down the length of the green. It would be near impossible to stop your ball if it came in hot. But from the right location, a high fade will hit and hold, or a draw played out to the right will funnel down. It's a cool idea.

I'm not sure if I would classify any of these courses as a must play. Unfortunately, the must-play courses in New England are almost entirely private. At least in my opinion, the privates are so much better than the publics it's almost comical. But the distance between the two groups was far greater 15 years ago. With Red Tail, the Ranch, Belgrade Lakes, Blackstone National, Waverly (is it closed yet?) and Taconic, there are some good choices out there. I haven't played the Pine Hills courses, but they are supposed to be quite good. And the second tier courses are pretty affordable. In that group, I would put layouts like Old Marsh, Butterbrook, Atkinson and their ilk.

So while I there's no way these courses measure up to what you would find in a destination area like Bandon or Pinehurst, there is enough variety to have a great time without ever getting bored.

With the courses I listed, I am taking you at your word that driving isn't an issue, because the Ranch and Taconic are in western Mass while Belgrade is up near Augusta in Maine. There's probably 4 hours between the Ranch and Belgrade. But if you eliminate those courses, all the rest are clustered not too far from Boston, with Red Tail, Blackstone, Waverly (and the Pine Hills courses) all being within easy driving distance. I think that while Red Tail and Waverly are almost universally praised, Blackstone is more polarizing. It is a Rees Jones course that I really like but I have friends who wouldn't put in at the same level as the others.

Hope that helps.

Dan

[Cliff Hamm]

Newport National must be included in any listing of the best publics in New England.  In fact it might be the best.

[Mike Sweeney]

Newport National must be included in any listing of the best publics in New England.  In fact it might be the best.

Cliff,

I think Dan was focused in on "Silva only  in New England" at my request, but I agree with your comment.

Dan,

Renaissance is close to my in-laws place along with Red Tail, so maybe I will just head back to Red Tail. I would place Cape Cod National in a similar space with Red Tail. At both courses, Silva kind of got stuck for land on 2 holes but the rest of the courses I find find both interesting and fun to play.

[Dan_Callahan]

Newport National must be included in any listing of the best publics in New England.  In fact it might be the best.

Absolutely right. Not sure how I missed that one. I would put NN right up there with Red Tail, and it would be at the top of my list of courses I would love to play every day. NN has a much more open feel to it than some of the tree-lined tightness of the other courses.

[Anthony Fowler]

I apologize for reviving an old thread.  I must have missed it the first time around, and a search led me to the thread after thinking about Old Marsh recently. 

Dan provided a very interesting account of his changing views after a second play at Old Marsh.  His internal experience is shockingly similar to mine.  I played there just once last summer.  I thought there were a few fun holes but I didn't think highly of the course at all.  Too many of the holes felt crammed and it was too easy to hit it in the junk with a marginal miss.  After thinking about the course many months later, I remember quite a few fun holes and fun shots.  I also realize the tee shots would not have been as crammed if I had known what club to hit off the tee.  I really like 2, 5, and 13-17.  Many of the other holes are fun as well even if they suffer from space limitations.  If you hit the right clubs of the tees, I think you would have a lot of fun at Old Marsh.  I would happily make the drive from Boston again. 

In relation to other courses in the area, I would put Old Marsh ahead of the Captains courses, Granite Links, and Blackstone but behind Red Tail and Waverly Oaks. 

I would be interested in hearing other examples of courses that take a while to appreciate.  I'm not talking about Merion, TOC, etc.  I'm thinking of unranked courses that seem contrived at first and only shine through further rounds and reflections.

[JNC Lyon]

Dan,

Have you played Kettle Brook outside of Worcester?  It is a Silva design that gets almost no discussion.  However, I think it has some very cool holes.  9 through 13 has some wild terrain and includes an alternate fairway at 10, a sunken green at 11, and a great drivable par four at 13.  Kettle Brook is also fun because it does not have hazards on both sides of every fairway like many nearby public courses (particularly Cyprian Keyes).  It is definitely worth a look.

John

[Nick Campanelli]

JL, I pass through Worcester occasionally on my way from Boston to my parents place in Northern CT.  I'll be sure to try Kettle Brook on one of those trips.  Any other recommendations in the area?  Silva or not...

[Anthony Fowler]

I would second the Kettle Brook recommendation.  There are some very fun holes out there.  Play the little 10-11 loop a couple times if you can.  There are so many different ways to play these two holes that it's hard to get bored.  11 also has a double (triple?) fairway if nobody is playing 10.   

[JNC Lyon]

Nick,

My one recommendation is DON'T play Cyprian Keyes.  Sure, it has some neat holes through marsh and rock outcroppings.  However, hazards line both sides of most fairways, and the pace of play is unbearably slow.  Just skip it.  Do try Worcester Country Club if you can swing it, it supposed to be very good.  If you get a chance for a day trip, zoom up I-93 into NH and try Canterbury Woods.  It is another course that gets no discussion here, but it is also loads of fun.  Tons of elevation change, five fun par threes (including a 230 yard thriller over a canyon), a halfpipe green at 14, and a fantastic alternate fairway par five at 15.

Anthony,

I think there is interior out of bounds between 10 and 11 to stop such muluarkey.  You right though, that is a very fun stretch.  How cool is that 11th green?!  The 13 is my favorite on the course.  It is so short and simple, but it is laden with trouble.  Miss the green in the wrong spot and you are staring 6 in the face.  It is really surprising that Kettle Brook gets no discussion on here.  I suppose it is out of the way, but it has plenty of quirk to keep the GCA fanatics (like myself) more than satisfied.

[Nick Campanelli]

I keep bringing The Shattuck (Jaffrey, NH) up on this website, but no one seems to speak much about it, probably for the same reasons as Kettle Brook...its extremely remote.

Personally, I feel its an incredible course (Silva, 1981). Conditioning has dropped big time through the years, but new management has taken over.  I hope they restore the course to its original form.  While holes are framed with a lot of hazards, the routing is breathtaking.  Holes, 5,6,12,13,14, and 15 are holes you wont forget.

[JNC Lyon]

I keep bringing The Shattuck (Jaffrey, NH) up on this website, but no one seems to speak much about it, probably for the same reasons as Kettle Brook...its extremely remote.

Personally, I feel its an incredible course (Silva, 1981). Conditioning has dropped big time through the years, but new management has taken over.  I hope they restore the course to its original form.  While holes are framed with a lot of hazards, the routing is breathtaking.  Holes, 5,6,12,13,14, and 15 are holes you wont forget.

Nick,

Do a search on The Shattuck.  I know Scott Burroughs did an Aerial of the Day on the course a few years back.  From what I remember, it is very wild and also very difficult (slope of 150+, as I recall).  I should check out the next time I am around that neck of the woods.

[Nick Campanelli]

JL, I've played there five or six times, and frankly wished I lived closer to play it more.  The course is probably the most difficult I've played.  The rating is 153 from the tips, and its only a par 71, 6764yds.  Patience is key.  If you ever want to head up there, let me know.  I've been trying to get back up there, but didn't make it last year.

[Nick Campanelli]

BTW, Waverly Oaks will not be closing (probably old news on this website?).  Hollywood East was denied by the state after a negative vote to provide tax breaks for incoming movie studios.

[Brad Tufts]

Good New England discussion!

Comically, I have played neither Kettle Brook (got a recommendation the other day too about it) or The Shattuck.  I actually ate lunch at the Shattuck clubhouse a couple years ago, so I can vouch for their buffalo fingers.

I HAVE played Old Marsh (with Michael Moore last year of GCA fame), and I thought it was challenging and fun, but overly penal in spots.  I agree that Holes 2, 14 and 17 are the best, and I even liked the goofy reverse-C par 5 13th, with the "longest bunker in Maine."  Of course they don't tell you it's only there to catch balls from rolling into the hazard, and it may be 200 yards long, but it's no more than 10 feet wide...

I also will confirm the decent-ness of Canterbury Woods, and the awfulness of Cyprian Keyes.  Thankfully they moved the Mass. Golf Museum away from that course...   

[Cliff Hamm]

Just want to second Kettle Brook - excellent, fun golf at a good price.  In the Worcester area Highfields is worth a play and Blackstone National worth more then one.  Shining Rock is new.  Jay Flemma mentioned it recently and found it also worth a play.  A bit further from Worcester is Connecticut National in Putnam, Ct. The best value in NE.  Post 55 gets you golf, lunch and cart for $33.  Youngsters pay $38.

[Dan_Callahan]

We should do a New England golf outing sometime this summer or fall. Lots of good, fun options out there.

I completely agree about Cyprian. It was one of the first CCFD-type courses I played growing up, and I was initial impressed by the psuedo-upscale nature of the place. I also thought that all the kids going around the par 3 course was a nice touch. But the environmentally protected areas are a huge annoyance. If your distance control is off even slightly, your round will be disaster.

I played Kettle Brook many years ago during a summer when I was fortunate to play a bunch of new courses and I don't remember much about it. Definitely need to get back. I'd also like to get to Butter Brook soon, which I've only played once.

[Nick Campanelli]

I'll second the outing.  Would be a good time and I would finally get to meet some GCA'ers