A few burning GCA questions...

[Chip Gaskins]

1) Is the original MacKenzie routing of Augusta really hanging on the wall at Alston Bird in Atlanta?

2) Has anyone every seen (or even know it ever existed) the Raynor routing of Cypress Point?

3) Did Flynn really dig up the Mac/Raynor Redan at Shinnecock and rebuild it?

[John Foley]

Chip,

1 - I beleive there was a thread while back where one of the ATL contingent (Mike Young or Bob Crosby perhaps?) said it was.

2 - Biggest rumor in the GCA world is that it exists in some private collector - who was related to the club at some time. You think a routing plan from Barker on Merion would cause havoc, just imagine if this one was ever found.

3 - No Idea's

[David Stamm]

1. No idea.

2. The ark of the covenant in GCA. Some say it's out there, others say no.

3. My oracle tells me that all Flynn did was move the tee. It also tells me there is alot more CBM/Raynor there at Shinny then people think. I don't know one way or another, but this oracle is usually pretty astute.

[Kevin_Reilly]

I know a partner at Alston & Bird in Atlanta...I'll ask him.

[Gib_Papazian]

Chip,

#1. No idea.

#2. Only a seance with the ghost of H.J. Whigham will tell the tale. I think the original Raynor/Marion Hollins plans burned up with Robert Hunter's Berkeley Mansion.

#3. There is this terrific book called "The Evangelist of Golf" by a guy named Bahto with the answer to this question and much much more. 

[Tyler Kearns]

Chip,

#3 I was under the impression the Redan was essentially left as MacDonald & Raynor built it, except for moving the tee as David noted.

TK

[Kyle Harris]

3. My oracle tells me that all Flynn did was move the tee. It also tells me there is alot more CBM/Raynor there at Shinny then people think. I don't know one way or another, but this oracle is usually pretty astute.

He's right, it's just slightly to the northeast of the present golf course.

[KBanks]

Chip,

To your first question, A&B does have an original MacKenzie routing of ANGC. Haven't been in their offices in a while, but it used to reside in one of their conference rooms. I think it has been reproduced in a few books. It's quite beautiful.

Ken

[Kevin_Reilly]

1) Is the original MacKenzie routing of Augusta really hanging on the wall at Alston Bird in Atlanta?

From my contact at A&B:

Hey Kevin, the answer is fortunately Yes.  And, a bonus for you -- the nines are shown reversed as originally designed.  Amen Corner is shown as 2, 3 and 4.  Very cool.  It is in watercolor I think and signed by MacKenzie in pencil.

[Chip Gaskins]

Thanks guys....

1) Sounds like a cool thing to see...as long as you are not in the board room at Alston Bird because you are in trouble  Maybe Alston Bird (Bobby Jones early law firm) has the only one.

2) Bummer if the Raynor original routing went up in smoke.  I really would have loved to see it and see how he would have handled those holes near the sea.  I have read he wanted to #16 as a Biarritz which could have been pretty fun.

3) Well, TEPaul said on one of my threads recently that he felt that Flynn completely reworked #7, thus my question.

Again, many thanks....more burning questions to come!

Chip

PS.  Gib-  I have read Bahto book and loved loved it (must have been the editing

[David_Tepper]

There IS a proposed routing by Raynor, done in the 1920's, for the Olympic Club Lake Course hanging in the mens' locker room there.

[Ian Andrew]

2) Has anyone every seen (or even know it ever existed) the Raynor routing of Cypress Point?

I have an alternative plan for Cypress - but it says designed by Hugh Wilson - I noticed it yesterday under my Stanley Thompson Plan for Merion. It was just above my CBM Plan for Bethpage Black. If you need a copy send a note.  :  )

[KBanks]

Chip,

Not sure if the Alston & Bird version is the only one. Wish I'd kept it, but a recent Masters tournament program had a picture of a similar MacKenzie drawing of the course. This particular version hangs outside the chairman's office at Augusta.

I confirmed that Charles Price's wonderful book on Bobby Jones and ANGC, "A Golf Story", has a reproduction of the plan. I'm pretty certain it's the one located at A&B.

A friend who is a retired partner at the firm was friendly with Jones. One of his duties as a young associate was to tote Jones' briefcase. Eventually, Jones gave him the briefcase. It's a prized possession of his, to say the least.

Ken

[Chip Gaskins]

Ian

Please send me Thompson's Merion plan....I think I know how to end a 75 page thread

Ken

Yes, I have seen that version hanging in the clubhouse, but I didn't think that was the original.  I assume there is no real "pencil and sketch" original, just the watercolors with Mackenzie's signature.

Chip

[Jim Nugent]

There IS a proposed routing by Raynor, done in the 1920's, for the Olympic Club Lake Course hanging in the mens' locker room there.

How does it compare to the current course?  Similar routing?  Same land?  Any indication of template holes?