Peter Kostis blames Architects

[Tom_Doak]

Dismal Red is rather unique though in not having tee markers.  There really aren't any "back tees", there is just "hit it from wherever you want that you think looks like a good place to tee off from".  The 9th hole might be nearly 500 yards, if we decide to tee off left of the 8th green (man, that would be one hell of a tee shot, wouldn't it?)  For those who haven't been there, of course there are teeing areas and we generally play from them, but without markers you don't really have to, unless you're in a highly serious event like the 5th Major

I would guess the White sees more play from the back tees than the Red even though it is a lot harder from the back tees than the Red (unless you make up your own) because it has tee markers.  I think we're not as conscious of "tips" when you don't have them calling attention to themselves.

That's actually how I was hoping it would work out ... having most people move up to where they have fun, instead of feeling compelled to play from a certain distance on a certain hole.

There are a couple of tees at Dismal Red that are much like the ones you describe on your home course ... there for the best players only, and purely to intimidate them.  I've been asked a few times about the tee all the way back on #7 and where I intended for people to drive the ball ... the only reason it's there is to shut up the guys who might say the course was too short.  That's an impossible tee shot into the wind, but the only guys who would be bothered [or even notice] are the guys who insist on playing "the tips".  Likewise, the lack of normal forward tee options on a hole like #5 keeps the average guy from dumbing down the course completely.

[Brent Hutto]

There is something to be said for making up yardage a course might be perceived as "lacking" for the self-styled big boys by making a few already long and difficult holes like 50-100 yards longer and just brutally tough. Much preferable to building 30-40 yard longer tee boxes on a dozen or more holes, including ones where the longer tees simply make driver a necessity rather than an option.

And I definitely think thoughtful forward tee placement is an undervalued attribute of a few courses relative to most. As someone who always plays up to 6,000 yards or less if given the option I really appreciate courses like the Ocean Course at Kiawah where there are still at least some choices, options or risk/rewards in play from the forward tees akin to what faces the longer hitters playing it back. That may be a knack that Pete Dye with his curves and angles does particularly well.

[Garland Bayley]

I don't remember half of this exchange.  By asking you which club you wanted for your next shot on a 500 yard par 4, I was probably trying to do a subtle bit of coaching on what must have been your second (or possibly third) shot.  If I'm playing a 500 yard par 4, and I hit a less than ideal drive, I will consider trying to lay up to a good full wedge distance, and play for a bogey 5. ...

We had both hit good drives and were near each other in the fairway. Had I hit my absolute best second shot I might have reached the green. However, the percentage for having that happen with me is so low that it wasn't really a consideration. I was just looking for the safest second shot. My impression was it was your intention to go for the green in two, but I may have misread you on that. I don't remember what you did with your second shot other than the results of our second shots separated us by quite a bit. I'm pretty sure you didn't lay back to full wedge. I missed my intended target to the left, my usual miss, but I had allowed for it, and was able to get the third on the green.

[Sven Nilsen]

Dismal Red is rather unique though in not having tee markers.  

You mean its just like Ballyneal?