[Chip Gaskins]

I am planning on being in Milwaukee in a few weeks and my Milwaukee Country Club option fell through and I am wondering how good Blue Mound is....  How much of the Raynor course is still there?  Would you guys play there over Lawsonia?  I am on a huge Macdonald/Raynor kick so I am leaning toward trying to check out Blue Mound but honest had not even heard of it until a few weeks ago.  THanks for any thoughts.

[Brad Swanson]

I am planning on being in Milwaukee in a few weeks and my Milwaukee Country Club option fell through and I am wondering how good Blue Mound is....  How much of the Raynor course is still there?

I think Doak did some work there (bunkers, etc) in the last several years 

Would you guys play there over Lawsonia?

I have yet to play Blue Mound, but I can say I never tire of playing Lawsonia 

I am on a huge Macdonald/Raynor kick so I am leaning toward trying to check out Blue Mound but honest had not even heard of it until a few weeks ago.  THanks for any thoughts.

Chip, my thoughts with your posts eventually end up with me wondering where you acquired your superpowers to basically play anywhere you like.

Cheers,
Brad

[Keith Buntrock]

Blue Mound was always a treat for me to play every Spring as a high school golfer, even in April in WI. I never was able to play it on a real nice day but nevertheless I believe it would be worth your effort. I haven't been to Lawsonia but I can't imagine you regretting getting on Blue Mound. Holes 2 and 3 can be a little rowdy right next to HWY 100. You should still enjoy your experience there. 

[RJ_Daley]

I've played BM twice and attended a State Am there and really scoured the course and watched how it played with good players.  Of the 4 Raynor courses I've played, I think it is certainly the equal of Yeaman's Hall or CC of Charleston.  And, it may be a tad more difficult.  A real treat would be to play both BM and Lawsonia.  If you have all day and can get a tee time at BM early or twiglight, you can easily play both in a day.  The similarities are remarkable, and even more so considering there is no evidence I'm aware of that Raynor and Langford and Morreau knew each others or traded design/construction ideas and techniques.  A day playing both would really be a special treat, IMHO.

[Tom_Doak]

Chip:

My associate Bruce Hepner has done quite a bit of restoration work at Blue Mound over the past ten years.  They've also put in a handful of back tees as they were talking at one time about hosting a Senior Tour event, though it never came to pass.

Lawsonia is equally worthy, but if time is a consideration, Blue Mound is very close to downtown Milwaukee and Lawsonia is a drive.

[Rob_Waldron]

Chip

I recommended Blue Mound to Nick Green a couple of weeks ago when we played Congo. I thoroughly enjoyed Blue Mound. Wonderful elevation changes and very typical Raynor bunkering. If you have enjoyed other Rayor renovations then you will love Blue Mound. In fact when we finished playing we went directly to the first tee to play it again.

Rob

[mark chalfant]

Bump.

[George Freeman]

Here is a link to some pictures from their website:

http://www.bluemoundgcc.com/index.cfm?ID=119&HN=1&CO=1&Action=HoleDet

The course looks like a blast!  I assume these pics are from after much of the restoration was complete?

[Peter_Herreid]

While I'm not certain that it qualifies as a "hidden" gem, Blue Mound is no question a true gem of a course.

I played it again with my cousins over Memorial Day weekend, during a quick 48-hr family reunion.  My previous round was in 2004, when some of the aforementioned renovations were taking place.  In addition, our host noted that tree removal was ongoing, and it was certainly noticeable to me, even given the 5 yr time difference between visits.

Many of the usual MacRaynor templates are there, including some less commonly used ones, such as the Hogsback and #1 NGLA templates.  While I wouldn't necessarily hold up any of the individual interpretations of the templates as the "best of its kind", as a collective they really go well together, and fit the landscape quite nicely there.  There is some rolling nature to the holes on the eastern side of the property (#5-#9, #11, #12) many of the others are on the flatter western half of the course.

Conditioning in May was excellent.

Not to steer somone away from Lawsonia, which I love as well, but I would have a hard time strenuously suggesting somone go there over BMGCC, assuming access is no issue, which I'm pretty sure it isn't!

I think both courses are a delgiht, and and if travel and access are assumed to be equally no issue, then my own personal split would be 6 Blue Mound, 4 Lawsonia

[John Engelbrecht]

Since those pictures were taken many trees have been removed and several bunkers have been added.

As Tom D. mentioned, several "Tiger tees" have been added;, most notable a recently completed black tee on 9. The new tee provides both some WOW factor as it overlooks a ravine and the clubhouse and it brings the bunkers back into play for golfers of all levels.

The club recently added a three row irrigation system that provides some consistent and very challenging rough.

Blue Mound will host the Jr. Western Open in 2010 and act as "co-host" ,along with Erin Hills, for the 2011 U.S. Amateur.

[Chip Gaskins]

Hey guys, thanks for the info.  This is great.  It looks like I have to make a stop here.  If I can get on Blue Mound I will pull off a 36 hole Raynorpaloza from Shoreacres to Blue Mound in the same day.  It sounds like the work that Tom Doak and Bruce Hepner have done has been very well received.  Bunkers restored and trees cut.   I love finding these gems!  THanks guys, looks Lawsonia and Whistling Straits will wait for later.

[RJ_Daley]

John, you mentioned an upgrade to a three row sprinkler design.   Can that be modified even wider, and has anyone given thought to the possibility of widening out and recapturing land currently in the trees to left fairway of 10, to find if there were original bunkers and such, and the original routing concept of the Prize Hole with its different FW options of play direction tee to green?  I'm pretty sure I could spot how the original hole was routed when I went wandering around over there. 

[John Engelbrecht]

Dick, the club has the original routing and pictures from the late 20's and there was not a split fairway to the left of 10; (which was the original first hole before reversing the nines). Since it is the clubs intention to stay true to its restoration philosophy, I do not believe that they would consider making that (although an interesting idea) change.

Cheers!

[RJ_Daley]

John, thanks for the correct historical info.   I'm by no means able to do the kind of 'forensic' or archeological landforms investigation that some of these old classic golf course researchers do to discover originally built structures.  I probably let my imagination get away from me when wandering around the trees there to the left side of 10FW and trying to imagine the left part of the "Prize" hole as seen in George Bahto's book.  I can understand the desire to stay true to the actual original as opposed to the 'imagined' or pipedream concept, and congratulate the BMCC for having the wisdom to stay true to themselves.  It is a real treat to experience that course and see the many template Raynor work and compare them to others at his other courses that strive to retain them. 

[David Smolensky]

Chip:

Don't feel too bad about missing a chance to play Milwaukee CC.  I've played both this year, BM in early May and MCC in early June.  BMCC was in better condition than MCC........in fact better than any of the SE Wisconsin Clubs I've played to date ( Kenosha CC, Racine CC, Ozaukee CC and Westmoor CC among them).  So how much fun is BMCC.......If I were you I would play 2 at Blue Mound and skip Lawsonia.   

[Carl Nichols]

If I can get on Blue Mound I will pull off a 36 hole Raynorpaloza from Shoreacres to Blue Mound in the same day. 

Chip:
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about Shoreacres, and whether you have a Merion-style reaction to it.  [I was lucky enough to play Shoreacres a bunch in the mid-90's, when I was in school in Chicago, and love the place .... but I also love Merion.   ]

[Phil McDade]

Chip:

Don't feel too bad about missing a chance to play Milwaukee CC.  I've played both this year, BM in early May and MCC in early June.  BMCC was in better condition than MCC........in fact better than any of the SE Wisconsin Clubs I've played to date ( Kenosha CC, Racine CC, Ozaukee CC and Westmoor CC among them).  So how much fun is BMCC.......If I were you I would play 2 at Blue Mound and skip Lawsonia.   

David:

How's the renovation at Westmoor? Some of the Langford fans on the board are interested in the re-do of this course.

How are preparations going for the Am qualifying tourney at Kenosha?

I was really -- I mean, really -- impressed with the conditioning at Milwaukee CC this past fall for the Mid-Am. That course took a ton of rain right before the tourney, and looked and played terrificly. Has it slipped, or something else to the story?

Thanks--

[Brad Swanson]

Chip:

Don't feel too bad about missing a chance to play Milwaukee CC.  I've played both this year, BM in early May and MCC in early June.  BMCC was in better condition than MCC........in fact better than any of the SE Wisconsin Clubs I've played to date ( Kenosha CC, Racine CC, Ozaukee CC and Westmoor CC among them).     

David,
   Can you expound on your definition of "in better condition" for the discussion group?

Cheers,
Brad

[RJ_Daley]

I am also curious as to the degree of your comparison to "in better condition" at BM than MCC.   I guess I can accept that as a relative thing, if you may have found certain aspects more to your liking about speed of greens, or softness of turf conditions due to excess rain, or some winter kill or something like that.  But a club as primo fine as MCC would be hard to imagine ever slips into a state of actual diminished conditioning.

[Mike McGuire]

This is a guess

We had a cool spring in SE Wisconsin. Milwaukee is usually  a couple weeks behind the rest. Some sort of micro climate closer to the lake and low next to Milwaukee River?

[David Smolensky]

Phil:
Westmoor resto is nice.  For starters the 640 trees that were removed give the course a great open feel.   The greens were reseeded with A1 and are about as good as it gets, they are completely grown in......they rolled well and were consistent from green to green.  They were not overly fast but the contours don't require a lot of speed to be great in this case.  Removal of the trees has increased noise levels from the highway on the front side, but it was always somewhat noisy.  Some grow in is still needed in a few fairways but it does not reduce playability much (wait till next year!).  Chipping was a challenge with the ball sitting down most of the time in the newly sodded areas around the green.  There are 2 tees that seem unusual.  The horseshoe 4th and a diagonal 14th (40-50yds wide).  Both are par threes....if I remember correctly 4 has been a horseshoe for some time.  The 14th now shares a green with 10th hole, which will lead to an adventurous putt through a hugh swale separating the two pins if you hit the wrong level.  Most of the holes received additional fairway bunkering.  Lohmans work clearly improved the course.  We had fun despite our poor play. 


Kenosha CC struggles to recover from a heavy rain in early January which froze the next day and remained that way until spring.  For reasons I do not comprehend we did not reseed damage until 10 days ago.  Unfortunately the greens took most of the damage.  The good news is its getting better.



Brad/JR/Phil/Mike:

The BM v. MCC comparison is a relative one which only includes the condition of the turf as it relates to playing conditions.  I like smooth greens over bumpy ones, fairway where the ball sit up not down.  Green speed is of less importance to me if they are smooth.  At Ozaukee CC last week we played MCC and from conversations with them they were clearly puzzled by the condition  of their course......primo courses as these have higher expectations from the membership, which are not being met and when comparing them in my mind BM was in better condition than MCC 3 weeks later. 

I guess it's a game we play .....rating courses on current conditions at different times during a season.  There are many factors that impact our analysis.  Lake Michigan is clearly one of them, Kenosha is only 1 mile from the lake, MCC is 2.5 miles and BM is about 8 miles away.  GNG budgets are another hugh factor, as you would expect.  KCC budget is maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of MCC and BM. Individuals are a factor and as Mike M alluded to micro climates could be a big factor.  I know our former Super felt they were significant factors.  How is it that 2 courses across the street from each other suffer different damage or 2 greens next to each other?  I live 20 miles west of the lake and feel its influence regularly.  I yield to a higher authority.



Regards
smo
"worlds fastest golfer"

[Phil McDade]

David:

Thanks for the updates; I know that here in Madison a few years ago, we had a similar freezing rain problem, and it nearly ruined the greens on my local muni. We've had two really snowy winters here lately, and that's really helped keep the greens around here in good shape the past two years.

Have you played Lawsonia? I was curious in reading the Milwaukee J-S update on Westmoor where they wanted to mimic what Langford did at Lawsonia with the Westmoore renovation. See:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/40578087.html

There is a little micro-climate over by the big lake; when I went to the '04 PGA at WStraits, I left Madison in sunny weather with temps in the mid-70s, and at WStraits I'm not sure it got above 60 and was pretty windy.

[Brad Swanson]

David:

Thanks for the updates; I know that here in Madison a few years ago, we had a similar freezing rain problem, and it nearly ruined the greens on my local muni. We've had two really snowy winters here lately, and that's really helped keep the greens around here in good shape the past two years.

Phil,
   It is interesting that some courses fared well this winter, but others in Madison did not.  My home club suffered the worst winter kill that most members have ever remembered and I know of others with similar difficulties, but you wouldn't know it now.  As Mike M. said, the cool/damp spring made it a slow recovery, and courses with alot of poa on their greens are going to hurt more than others.  Just another example of how courses within close geographic proximity can come out of winter in very different conditions.

Cheers,
Brad

[Phil McDade]

Brad:

Well, you west-siders always are a bit touchy.

Over here at my home Monona muni, the greens are in as good of shape as I've seen in years (relatively speaking, for a course that gets as much play as it does).

FYI, I'm headed out to your course Monday with my golf coach buddy to see how his junior golfing son handles all those sidehill lies.

[Mike Hendren]

Blue Mound was in impeccable condition yesterday.  More later,  but my initial reaction is that I would agree w/ Peter's 6/4 split, favoring Blue Mound over Lawsonia. 

Bogey

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