Yale University - Why not Top 100 course?

[Bill Satterfield]

About a month ago I came back from a trip that included Shinnecock, Sebonack , Bethpage, Oakmont, NGLA, Winged Foot, etc.  Before playing Fishers Island in the afternoon, my brother-in-law and I played the Yale University golf course.  Wow!  I was really impressed!  What a collection of holes.  From the blind 3rd hole to the biarritz 9th to the redan 13th and all the way home to the wild and crazy 18th, I was really impressed.  So I'm curious to get some opinions on why this course currently doesn't reside in the Top 100 lists.  It has a lot of the character of NGLA boasts, a setting devoid of interruptions, and some very memorable shots and greens.  Thoughts?

[Tim Gavrich]

It's my favorite golf course.  I put it ahead of The Old Course, Sunningdale Old, Elie, Newport CC, and Shelter Harbor.  I hope to play it in late August in the CT State Fourball.

[Mike Sweeney]

I started playing Yale when I was visiting my Connecticut born wife's family almost 20 years ago. I was up there today and I have never seen it in the shape that it was today. The course is drying out from all the recent rain and my guess is that this Fall during the team's tournament season, Scott Ramsey will have Yale in the best shape it has been since the 1930's.

Yale is on a bunch of Top 100 list already and some could say that NOT being on the Golf Digest list is a good thing.  

In my opinion, you have to drive all the way to Clementon, NJ or Southampton NY to find a better inland course.

Updated profile by Ran:

http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/yale-university-golf-course-ct-usa

[mike_malone]

   When a course is not clearly in the top 30 to 40 in the country then it competes with probably about 150 others for the second echelon of the rankings. This is just another reason why a top 100 ranking is silly. Is Yale a great course? Of course it is. I have come up with my own criterion----Can golf get any better than this ? If the answer is "NO" then the course is among the best. If a course is at least comparable to a great course then it is a very good course.

[cary lichtenstein]

Cuz there are a bunch of stupid raters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom MacWood]

I love the course too, on my very short list of the best...but I'm not surprised its not rated in the top 100...I recall rater Matt Ward complaining the tees were not level.

[Jim Franklin]

Cuz there are a bunch of stupid raters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's funny. I talk to a lot of non-rater golfers and their likes and dislikes are a lot different than the folks on this site. They like The Bridge more than Friars Head which would be sacrilegious here. They like Rees Jones and have no idea what a Redan or Biarritz hole is. The 1500 on this site are not the end all be all of golf course knowledge. Yes, there are a lot of raters that should not be, but they rate pretty much like what the general population likes.

Personally, I loved Yale and even had fun playing #18. I can't wait to see it again.

[jkinney]

The Yale course is, without question IMO, one of the great parkland courses in the world. It has been in Golf Magazine's top 100 for years. That it's not in Golf Digest's is predictable, considering some of their choices. See Ran's recent course profile on Yale's renovation for details.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom Macwood:

Let's get a few things straight and complete shall we.

Yale was in horrific shape not too many years ago. That was my last direct connection to the course
at that time and the full comments I made were completely fair and appropriate in my mind.

Have you ever played the course ? If so -- when ?

Yale is a stellar layout and deserves far greater attention than a few of the national pubs have provided to date. However,
much of that is tied to the fact that for too long the overall state of affairs there was really far below what
a place connected to an institution like Yale should have been providing from the get go.

Mike S:

When you say "best inland layout until you hit Clementon / Southampton -- then you must have missed the likes of Plainfield to name just one clear example that stands out. I'm guessing you are referring to courses that are not rated now. If that's the case then the solid upgrading of the Banks Course at Forsgate would certainyl merit no less attention than what you see at Yale in my mind.

[Mike Sweeney]

Yale was in horrific shape not too many years ago. That was my last direct connection to the course
at that time and the full comments I made were completely fair and appropriate in my mind.

Matt,

Scott was hired in 2003 and has since won Greenskeeper of the Year at Yale. Are you going to wait for the 10th anniversary of his hiring to play it! Get off your comfy couch overthere in NJ. I am tired of doing all the heavy lifting!

I would like to see Plainfield again post the work that has been done there. In general Ross doesn't have the drama of MacRaynorBanks for me but a recent second trip to The Orchards did open my eyes to the subtle nature of Ross.

In the MacRaynorBanks family, Forsgate and Whipporrwill are on equal footing in the very good course category but they are not in the same world as Yale. Piping Rock was posed to me in an IM, and it is close but still short of Yale due to Yale's unique terrain.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike S:

Easy boy -- or else I'll send you an autographed muzzle.

Mike, like your reference to heavy lifting -- does that refer to your explots via Metro North alone ?

Mike, speaking of visits -- have you been at Forsgate since the work there was completed ?

The terrain is no less compelling in a number of spots though I'll give Yale the slightest of edges in that regard -- frankly, the greens and bunker complexes are more than a match for Yale.

One last thing -- Mike take NJ Transit and head to Plainfield before the Barclays goes there. The course is beyond
Yale in my mind.

Thanks Mike -- fire a return salvo -- it is always appreciated !

[Tom MacWood]

Matt
Yes, I have played Yale. I believe it was on a thursday. I was wearing very short shorts. You place a lot more emphasis on condition than I do. Perfectly flat tees are not all that important in the overall scheme of things....IMO.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Let's do this again -- shall we.

Tees are PART of the conditioning elements that tie themselves to how well the overall design can shine through. I am not advocating -- either then or now -- that Yale had to be August-like for it to receive stellar comments. My point was that conditioning must not detract from the design elements any course has. In years past Yale certainly had that situation. I'm glad to hear those matter are now more past oriented than anything else. The design will only be even more enhanced with such a fine correction.

I simply referenced tees as one element in the overall presentation. Your comments make it sound like my comments were tied ONLY to the state of the tees themselves. Context is indeed a central element in understanding the totality of what is said.

When I played Yale in the past you had several tees where they were not level and often there were areas which were literally beaten up because of excessive play and the lack of a consistent surface.

[Bill_McBride]

Matt
Yes, I have played Yale. I believe it was on a thursday. I was wearing very short shorts.

Like zees?

[Kalen Braley]

Matt
Yes, I have played Yale. I believe it was on a thursday. I was wearing very short shorts.

Like zees?

Bill,

I'm thinking it was more like his distant cousin..

[Bill_McBride]

Kalen, I was thinking Bruno's were shorter.

Back to Yale.......after playing NGLA, the Creek, and Mountain Lake, and walking Chicago, I love the idea that Yale is like all the other Macdonald Raynor courses on steroids!

I wonder how Old Macdonald will stack up in that spectrum?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt & Tom,

Tee leveling can be easily achieved with a laser grader.

[jkinney]

Kalen, I was thinking Bruno's were shorter.

Back to Yale.......after playing NGLA, the Creek, and Mountain Lake, and walking Chicago, I love the idea that Yale is like all the other Macdonald Raynor courses on steroids!

I wonder how Old Macdonald will stack up in that spectrum?

Indeed Yale's course is on steroids. NGLA has some 350 bunkers, but Yale has deep bunkers with 15-20 rungs of stairs from which to exit. It's incredible that way. The topography must have tantalized CBM and Raynor when they first toured it. To call what they created there HEROIC is to understate. The Yale course should be a required pilgrimage for all GCA members, IMO. It is like a great Wagnerian Opera, massive in scale.
And since the removal of some 5,000 trees, its beauty is so much more visible.

[Tom MacWood]

Matt
Yes, I have played Yale. I believe it was on a thursday. I was wearing very short shorts.

Like zees?

Yes.

[Kyle Henderson]

About a month ago I came back from a trip that included Shinnecock, Sebonack , Bethpage, Oakmont, NGLA, Winged Foot, etc.  Before playing Fishers Island in the afternoon, my brother-in-law and I played the Yale University golf course. 

Good lord. Major props to you, Mr. Bill!