Aronimink

[Chuck Brown]

What should we know about the on-course/tour play prospects for Aronomink becoming a future temporary host site for the Tiger Woods/AT&T Tour stop?

The last time that Aronomink was being talked about in terms of a tour stop, was when it was being replaced as a PGA Championship site in the wake of Shoal Creek, right?

When was the last time that Aronomink hosted an event that had public galleries invited?

Is there a large pent-up demand among golf spectators in Philadephia for a tour event?

[EDIT -- My embarassing misspelling of Aronimink has been noted within this thread.  If one of the mods can spare me further infamy and correct the thread title, I'd be grateful.  I can't do it myself, can I?  My apologies to the Aronimink members.]

[SECOND EDIT - Thanks to Ben and all for the correction...]

[jonathan_becker]

I'm not from philly, so I can't comment on a local perspective, but in regards to public galleries, they did host the 97 junior am and the 03 senior pga. 

[Joe Bausch]

Not unlike the recent US Open at B'page, the 2003 Senior PGA was met with tons of rain.  Thus the course played long and the rough was just brutal.

I'm quite confident A'mink has the length and greens to interest the top pros.

Will Philly support the tourney? ABSOLUTELY.  But, you say, they didn't exactly support the Pennsylvania Classic back in 2001/3 (or was it 2000/2?) did they?  Well, maybe not what was hoped, but that was a 2nd tier PGA tourney that had very few Top 10 players.  With Tiger in attendance for the next two years, it will be a huge event.

[Dan Boerger]

There's no question that Philadelphia will support this tournament.

Aronimink is land rich (partially due to the fact that 27 holes were originally slated for the club), so that will make for more comfortable conditions to hold the tournament, crowds, tents, etc.

The restoration works by Ron Prichard has "matured in" (for lack of a better term) well. And the day-to-day course conditioning has been off-the-charts (allow this ad guy some hyperbole) thanks to John Gosselin and his staff.

The defense of the course is in primarily in brute length and challenging green complexes. There has been some length added to #9 and #2.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am a member.

[BCrosby]

This is great news.

I've thought for a long time that Aronominck is one of Ross' best courses and does not get the credit it deserves. The front nine is as good a nine as anything Ross ever did.

Bob

[mike_malone]

 I think the front nine of Torresdale Frankford is better and that is in the same city!  It has much more variety and memorability. The terrain is more inspiring and is used to create more options for play. The green complexes are more interesting and there is more elevation change than Aronimink. The internal complexities of the greens are also at least as interesting.

[JSlonis]

I think the front nine of Torresdale Frankford is better and that is in the same city!  It has much more variety and memorability. The terrain is more inspiring and is used to create more options for play. The green complexes are more interesting and there is more elevation change than Aronimink. The internal complexities of the greens are also at least as interesting.

Mayday,

Until some serious tree work is done at Torresdale, there are not many "options" for play there.  

** Mods...Can we get the title to the thread spelled correctly?

[mike_malone]

 I certainly agree on the trees at T/F (don't get me in trouble at that course also!) but still there are more slopes at the edges of the fairways, more elevation changes from tee to green that allow both the ground and the aerial game, and a good short par four that is lacking at Aronimink.T/F just needs to restore the designed width .

[Chuck Brown]

I would guess that I might not be the only patron who might travel from an altogether different golf market to go to the next one or two AT&T's, just to see Aronomink.  I can't think of another regular Tour, non-major evnt that would get me to travel...

[Mike_Cirba]

Chuck,

You may want to change the title...it's spelled "Apronimink".

That's a very common mistake. 

[RJ_Daley]

I don't know anything about the course, but Tiger seemed to get a genuine glint in his eye during an interview on TV about the switch to Aronimink and being in the Philly market for the next few 4th of July spectaculars.  It sure fits the theme of the holiday to go to the city of the convention and signing of the Dec. 

[JSlonis]

I certainly agree on the trees at T/F (don't get me in trouble at that course also!) but still there are more slopes at the edges of the fairways, more elevation changes from tee to green that allow both the ground and the aerial game, and a good short par four that is lacking at Aronimink.T/F just needs to restore the designed width .

I won't get you in trouble.  I agree with you about the variety and design of Torresdale.  It is a very good golf course that would only get better with a proper tree program.  There is a lot of good architecture that is hidden there currently.

It's difficult to compare Torresdale with Aronimink though.  Although they are both Ross, they are very different courses.

Chuck,

You won't be disappointed if you come to see the tournament at Aronimink.  Ron Pritchard did a wonderful job restoring/renovating the golf course.  

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I certainly agree on the trees at T/F (don't get me in trouble at that course also!) but still there are more slopes at the edges of the fairways, more elevation changes from tee to green that allow both the ground and the aerial game, and a good short par four that is lacking at Aronimink.T/F just needs to restore the designed width .

Mayday, your comment about "more slopes at the edges of the fairways" is interesting.   I walk around courses (AGC being one of them), and see places where maybe the fairway could be widened a bit, which would seem to actually create more havoc than in their narrowed presentation.  AGC #2 is one of them:  For those that don't know, it's a dog-leg left, and for those that cut the corner it becomes a short hole.  However the fairway cants left to right past the bunkers guarding the dog-leg, and balls can run through into the right rough.  But you'rereally only hitting wedge from here.  Maybe I'm way off here (And, if John Gosselin is watching this he can correct and reprimand me if needed) but what if the fairway we're widened here - almost to the tree line where tee balls that aren't controlled (ideally with a right to left shape) will go into the woods or at least have an even worse angle to the green?

With that said, there are two short par 4's on the front: 2 and 7, and the latter (actually both) should test the players ability to control their tee shots, which will probably be played with no more than a 3W, in order hold that fairway which runs hard to the left where they'll be landing.  Some of the guys on this board have played AGC in tourney coniditions and could probably elaborate on this, if this is at all a reality... i know it was for me until any length I had off the tee disappeared as my age increased.

There is plenty of elevation changes out there and there are many holes with options for both ground and aerial games throughout the front nine (although since we're talking PGA Tour players, that doesn't even matter to these guys)... trust me I've see pretty much every combination of shots on these holes.  1(both); 2(both); 3(both); 4(both); 5(aerial - short par3); 6(both); 7(aerial-short par4); 8(aerial more so than ground, but when the course is firm one can run a shot up); 9(aerial).

[mike_malone]

 Wayne,

    My thoughts were about the playability for regular golfers not pros. Pros will probably be more tested at Aronimink then they would be at T/F.

   But I find your comment about fairway widening interesting. At Rolling Green this offseason we widened the fairways AWAY from the line of play on #2, #5, #17 and widened it in the target area on #7. These widenings have created many more interesting shots.

    An old gcaer, Bill (redanman) Vostinak spoke of the "golfing ground" that should be used. Particularly when it means grabbing slopes into the fairway; it increases the fun.

     Unfortunately, T/F did a master plan which suggests bringing the  bunkers closer to the existing fairway. This is a sad decision.

[Chuck Brown]

I certainly agree on the trees at T/F (don't get me in trouble at that course also!) but still there are more slopes at the edges of the fairways, more elevation changes from tee to green that allow both the ground and the aerial game, and a good short par four that is lacking at Aronimink.T/F just needs to restore the designed width .

I won't get you in trouble.  I agree with you about the variety and design of Torresdale.  It is a very good golf course that would only get better with a proper tree program.  There is a lot of good architecture that is hidden there currently.

It's difficult to compare Torresdale with Aronimink though.  Although they are both Ross, they are very different courses.

Chuck,

You won't be disappointed if you come to see the tournament at Aronimink.  Ron Pritchard did a wonderful job restoring/renovating the golf course. 

J, I live walking-distance from Franklin Hills CC, and so to see some more Ron Prichard work is particularly tantalizing.

[mike_malone]

 Wayne,


    I agree with your idea. When fairways are widened on CLASSIC courses that were designed  AT THE GREEN for shots either on the wrong place IN THE FAIRWAY or in the rough the shot possibilities go up.


   As an example at Rolling Green's #5 , you now can miss the expanded fairway left which is the ideal landing area ,and, instead of that boring chipout from the trees, you have to SHAPE a shot around trees in front of you over a huge bunker by the green. How could anyone not want that kind of a shot as punishment for a mishit?


    Classic American courses seem to have been designed not for the good shots but for the mishits. The recovery shots get to go over bunkers to nonreceptive parts of the green while the good shots have a rather boring straightaway shot.



   

[Dan Herrmann]

Dan B is correct about the conditioning.  It's amazingly good!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ron Prichard save Aronimink from an earlier butchered renovation?

[Bill Brightly]

This course wil be an awesome test for the pros if they have to use the new grooves! If they miss fairways, it will be lots of fun watching them try to control the ball from the rough on these greens...

[Mike Sweeney]

This course wil be an awesome test for the pros if they have to use the new grooves! If they miss fairways, it will be lots of fun watching them try to control the ball from the rough on these greens...

On number 7 (short par 4) in late April, I was in the right rough and hit a perfect 8 iron onto the front of the green and watched it roll over onto the back apron (which I liked Mike Cirba!). Firm greens in July and no grooves will be interesting to watch those shots from Tiger and Company.

Course was in perfect condition in late April. I sort of have to say that since my cousin is married to the Greens Chair, but it really was.

[Dan Boerger]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ron Prichard save Aronimink from an earlier butchered renovation?




Dan - Robert Trent Jones did what some call some a heavy handed redesign in the late 50's. Prichard worked long and hard on the restoration that's been universally well received. Among the things he did were to remove some bunkers that Jones put in and brought back some fairway bunkers that serve as much a "visual" as real hazard for most golfers.

Also agree that Aronimink is a VERY different course than T/F, and any comparisons should be made with that in mind.

I really look forward to how the professionals will attack the course. 16 is a wonderful par 5, that perhaps is best tamed with a layup? Will they simply bomb it between the bunkers on #6? I'd be curious to hear what our better golfers in the treehouse think.