[Bill_McBride]

Since the reference to a "true Scottish feel" has been referenced negatively here, I'll add one more comment about our posters on GCA.

One of the predominant settlement groups in the SE U.S. during the colonial period were the Scotch-Irish.  They often settled in mountainous areas all up and down the Appalachian chain from PA to GA because the land was cheap and the terrain reminded them of home.  This included my ancestor John Crockett (after whom my son is named) who settled in a cove outside Wytheville, VA in the mid-1700's.  My parents still own 125 acres in that cove, and when visiting I often think that the land looks more like Scotland than Scotland does, having traveled in Scotland other than to a few golf courses.

People that post on GCA.com seem to believe that Scottish golf, indeed Scotland, is links land and links courses.  This is, of course, provincial, silly, and incorrect, and may have to do with flying into Scotland on a golf trip and seeing nothing but 4 or 5 of the most famous courses in the country, all on the coasts.  Google "Scottish Highlands" and look at the pictures.  The land looks EXACTLY like Blairsville, GA, and like most of the Appalachian region.  The same is largely true of the Borders region of Scotland as well, by the way.

I don't mean that every golf course in the world that uses the word "Scottish" actually is like Scotland in some way.  Golf advertising is no less prone to hype than any other type of advertising.  BUT a golf course in the Appalachian mountains might reasonably be able to claim to look like Scotland and actually be correct.  Look at the pictures for yourself.

A.G., my negative comments early in this thread were addressed at (1) the apparent need for modern courses to be 7,600+ yards, and (2) the marketing hype that calls every new course "Scottish feeling."  I've played over a dozen courses in Scotland and admittedly all were within a mile or two of the shore.  I guess Gleneagles and Ladybank might have more of that Appalachian look.  To me that kind of marketing is just way overdone.  The "Scottish feel" I'm fond of also has more to do with the ground game than the aerial game, and pretty much every photo of Old Union shows aerial game demands rather than the capacity for a wide variety of approach shots.  Just MHO.

One of these days I'll get by Old Union and hopefully love the place -- but most likely not from the tips!.

[RJ_Daley]

It is quite rare that the architect owns the golf course.  Is there a back story to that?  Did this start as another person or entity's project, and go down in the economic meltdown with Mr. Griffiths taking it back or over?  The photos all seem to be taken in one area of the property in fall.  With this opening now, it must have had another section that needed more grow-in from last fall to mature, thus no pictures of the rest of the course.  Is this the sort of course that is two diverse style 9 hole loops?  The setting looks wonderful as does the bunkerwork and shaping as a pleasing presentation.  Obviously, one needs to play it to make relavant judgements as a fine course or not.  But, I have to believe that with all of Griffith's experience, it will be fine.  

I also see that this course is about 15 miles as the crow flies from the Axeland and Proctor course north of Blue Ridge in similar if not the same terrain.  I visited there a couple of years ago, and it was beautiful up there, but the Bunkerhill boys project was severe and unwalkable.  I'm not sure if they finished that Blue Ridge course with the economy, although there was a lot of hard work done by the time I saw it.  How is this course of Griffiths for walking?  Has the drought abated up there?  

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=34.936537,-84.002752&spn=0.020687,0.068321&t=h&z=14

From the pre construction aerial, it looks like this may have been a difficult land parcel to assemble with possibly multiple land owners to buy out.  But, a nice get-away area from Hotlanta, it would seem.

[Jim_Kennedy]

No one thinks of the Highlands when they read that a course offers "Scottish feeling" golf.

As I said earlier, the course looks very presentable, playable, and down to earth. The pictorial evidence alone is enough to rouse a golfer's curiosity. Written info is probably a necessity, but I think these presentations should opt for well written and concise copy, stay away from hyperbole, and check for typographical errors (there area at least three in the "info" blurb).

[Norbert P]

 My parents still own 125 acres in that cove, and when visiting I often think that the land looks more like Scotland than Scotland does, having traveled in Scotland other than to a few golf courses.

Very nice post A.G. but why aren't you building a golf course on that 125 acres?!    By the time this whole "bad economy" thing blows over, it'll be ready and you'll be tagged the "Brilliant Visionary" that we know you are. 

[A.G._Crockett]

No one thinks of the Highlands when they read that a course offers "Scottish feeling" golf.

As I said earlier, the course looks very presentable, playable, and down to earth. The pictorial evidence alone is enough to rouse a golfer's curiosity. Written info is probably a necessity, but I think these presentations should opt for well written and concise copy, stay away from hyperbole, and check for typographical errors (there area at least three in the "info" blurb).

Jim,
With all due respect, most ON THIS SITE don't think of the Highlands or the Borders or any other part of Scotland.  This is a site for golfer who are fixated on really well-known courses to the point of obsession, which means links courses when one talks about Scotland.  Most of Scotland isn't linksland (by definition) and most of Scotland isn't seaside.  The fact that impressions of Scotland here are very narrow does NOT mean that much of the Appalachian region doesn't look like much of Scotland.  Actually, Blairsville, GA could be plunked down in the middle of Scotland and nobody would know the difference from the terrain.  (The accents might give it away, though.) 

[A.G._Crockett]

 My parents still own 125 acres in that cove, and when visiting I often think that the land looks more like Scotland than Scotland does, having traveled in Scotland other than to a few golf courses.

Very nice post A.G. but why aren't you building a golf course on that 125 acres?!    By the time this whole "bad economy" thing blows over, it'll be ready and you'll be tagged the "Brilliant Visionary" that we know you are. 

Don't think it hasn't occurred to me!  There would be two problems, though.  Half of the land is the side of a mountain heavily populated by timber rattlers.  The other difficulty is that people don't have much money; it's Appalachia still today. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike Whitaker,

Please play this course ASAP and report back. Is it completely out of the way for the Dixie Cup? It looks great to me.

[tlavin]

The course looks enjoyable, that's for sure.  The website and some of the hype is fun to bash, but I wouldn't bash the work until I've played the golf course.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I hope this turns out to be a great golf course. Obviously the promotion does not lend itself to a lot of love from the treehouse. And certainly St Andrews Bay as lead resume course does not excite us either. However If Mike thinks it is interesting then lets see the final result. Mayacoma has been a public relations nightmare in the Marin county area but it is still a very good and well designed golf course. I do not know Mr. Griffths work so cannot address that at all.

[Eric Smith]

Dr. Gray and I have an 8:40 this Sunday if anyone would care to join us. 

[A.G._Crockett]

Somewhat ironically, I played a Griffiths course named Crystal Fall CC for the first time today.  I'd have to go back and count how many of his courses I've played now, but a bunch.  Crystal Falls was just excellent in every respect, and with a tremendous set of par 4's.  Thoroughly enjoyable, as Griffiths courses always are.

Eric Smith, what do you know about the rates, walking policy, etc., at Old Union?  Do you know what the greens fees will be this Sunday?

[Eric Smith]

A.G.,

When I made the tee time today the nice lady on the phone quoted me a rate of $53 for Sunday (I think.)

Didn't ask about the walking policy.  Why don't you join us?

[A.G._Crockett]

I'm thinking about it...

I have to be back in Alpharetta by 3:00, which shouldn't be a problem.  I just have to float the idea at home and see what happens.  I'll get back to you asap.

[Eric Smith]

I'm thinking about it...

I have to be back in Alpharetta by 3:00, which shouldn't be a problem.  I just have to float the idea at home and see what happens.  I'll get back to you asap.

Just got a message from Michael Christensen in the ATL, and he'll be joining Anthony and I at Old Union on Sunday.  You'll make 4.  Just let me know...

[A.G._Crockett]

I'm thinking about it...

I have to be back in Alpharetta by 3:00, which shouldn't be a problem.  I just have to float the idea at home and see what happens.  I'll get back to you asap.

Just got a message from Michael Christensen in the ATL, and he'll be joining Anthony and I at Old Union on Sunday.  You'll make 4.  Just let me know...

Count me in; I'll see you there.  Thanks for the invitation.

[Jim_Kennedy]

No one thinks of the Highlands when they read that a course offers "Scottish feeling" golf. - Me


With all due respect, most ON THIS SITE don't think of the Highlands or the Borders or any other part of Scotland.  This is a site for golfer who are fixated on really well-known courses to the point of obsession, which means links courses when one talks about Scotland. -You


Precisely my point, which is why new courses should hire world renowned writers with the talent to avoid overusing adjectives, superlatives, and tired cliches in their copy. 

As I said, and will say again, the course looks very good in photos.

[Eric Smith]

I'm thinking about it...

I have to be back in Alpharetta by 3:00, which shouldn't be a problem.  I just have to float the idea at home and see what happens.  I'll get back to you asap.

Just got a message from Michael Christensen in the ATL, and he'll be joining Anthony and I at Old Union on Sunday.  You'll make 4.  Just let me know...

Count me in; I'll see you there.  Thanks for the invitation.

Awesome. Looking forward to it.

[David Druzisky]

Great to see you guys will be going out to see and play the course.

There is far too much gravity to the same stuff at times on this site and I for one always look forward to feedback on efforts by other designers.  There is a lot of good and enjoyable stuff out there and this site should be the perfect place for all of that to be exposed.

As far as the web site propaganda, you have to remember they are mostly not trying to lure the likes of the group here, but the mass market.  When you are trying to market your property up against all the other BS thats out there - especially with tour pro names attached - you gotta do stuff that pushes the envelope and gets the interest up.  I have dealt with the advertising/marketing folks on a couple of my projects and you wouldn't believe some of the crap they come up with that has absolutely no relevance to the course, how it unfolded or what will be experienced.  Half the time its the same BS the course down the street is saying.  Many of those working on that stuff don't even play the game! 

Also, why wouldn't you mention in your credentials that you were a past president of the ASGCA?

[Anthony Gray]

  I look foward to the trip. How close is it to Brasstown Valley?

    Anthony

[Eric Smith]

  I look foward to the trip. How close is it to Brasstown Valley?

    Anthony

10 miles

[Eric Smith]

Here's a site plan.



The golf course is named Old Union, the development is called Owen Glen.

[Scott Macpherson]

Hey Eric, A.G,

Glad you guys are going. I will look forward to your comments too.

And when you are there, ask for Denis. He may just be around...

scott

[A.G._Crockett]

Hey Eric, A.G,

Glad you guys are going. I will look forward to your comments too.

And when you are there, ask for Denis. He may just be around...

scott

I'd love to meet him, and if you get the chance, go play Crystal Falls.  It is very enjoyable.

[Eric Smith]

Hey Eric, A.G,

Glad you guys are going. I will look forward to your comments too.

And when you are there, ask for Denis. He may just be around...

scott

I talked to the pro today and asked if Denis would be around, he said probably not as he lives down in Braselton - but during the week he's usually around there.

[Mark Pritchett]

1,496 of us are waiting for a full report! 

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