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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« on: June 15, 2009, 02:45:17 PM »
Looking for info for a friend who is playing in the member guest this weekend - scorecard, general info, pics would be appreciated.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 03:10:00 PM »
tell him to make sure his putter in working really well when he goes there!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 03:59:38 PM »
George,

He is a lucky guy as Franklin Hills is an awesome course.  Like Paul mentioned, the greens are slick w/ quite a bit of movement!

From the scorecard:

1 - par 4 451, 429
2 - par 4 408, 385
3 - par 3 180, 165
4 - par 5 515, 490
5 - par 4 371, 355
6 - par 4 439, 428
7 - par 4 430, 420
8 - par 5 521, 499
9 - par 3 178, 145

10 - par 4 433, 416
11 - par 5 477, 450
12 - par 4 411, 391
13 - par 4 301, 293
14 - par 3 218, 198
15 - par 5 460, 455
16 - par 3 240, 226
17 - par 4 425, 400
18 - par 4 423, 402

Par 72
Blues - 6,881   73.0 - 128
Whites - 6,547   71.5 - 123

Your friend should have a great weekend playing this gem!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 04:09:52 PM by George Freeman »
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 04:14:31 PM »
George,
    I would love to hear your friend's impressions of the course. I have  heard there is a fantastic set of greens there.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 04:28:48 PM »
I believe the discussion group's own Ari Techner grew up playing there.

Perhaps he can give a synopsis?

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 11:47:36 PM »
George,

It is often mentioned that Franklin Hills is the best example of Ross in Southeast Michigan.  The course has not be extensively worked like Oakland Hills.  Your friend is going to have a blast playing this classic.  Tom Doak rates it a 7.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009, 11:56:40 AM »
Thanks of the info, everyone. Hopefully Ari will see this thread and add to it.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 03:17:54 PM »
Spectacular golf course.

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 02:34:05 AM »
Pretty much what everyone has said so far is accurate.  I spent a few years caddying there and could pretty much play the course in the dark (and nearly did every Monday where we were allowed to play) because it was so fun to play and watch other people play.  I've planned to do a "Home Course" write-up with photos for awhile but haven't for whatever reason.  This could be the reminder I needed.

The greens are great, and they tend to defy gravity like few other courses can, and I think I have figured out the reason why, something I would like to delve into further at a later date.  Your friend may here something along the lines of "Everything breaks toward 13 Mile Road."  This isn't entirely true of course, but it isn't a bad play if you are not sure what the line is.  This is especially true for the southern portion of the course, mainly the front nine, that plays along a ridge valley.  The rest of the greens are just hard to read (though they don't really look it) and require years of experience, if that.  One bit of advice here--if possible, stay below the hole on both 2 and 9, and probably 12 too.  Beyond the green is DEATH--they are that severe. 

What may be better about the course than the famed greens is its routing.  The site is really two different sites in one--a flattish plateau on the northern end that falls off into a ridge valley along the southern end, all in a nearly square shaped property.  Ross's genius here is that he brought both nines into both geographic features.  Furthermore, there is only one sequence where the holes do not change direction, between 12 and 13, but even there the wind effect still changes because 13 plays through a tunnel of dense mature oaks.  I'm not going to say anything about 13.  Let your friend experience it for himself without knowing what he is getting into.  I remember my first time caddying on it, and I am glad I knew nothing about it.  A cool, unusual golf hole, especially for Ross.

One more note, and it regards the restoration.  This may be commonly known, but Ron Prichard did a restoration of the course in 2004.  All bunkers were reshaped and deepened, some were eliminated, some were added.  I support the shaping of them, for they reflect forms that could be natural on a silty clay soil.  If they were built on sand like at Oakland Hills down the road, I might not be so giddy.  I liked the bunkers that were taken out, but the ones that were added really only serve a sort of 'framing' purpose (I'm looking at you 7 and 18).  Additionally, greens were enlarged, some fairways widened, irrigation rebuilt, and some trees removed, though not quite enough.  Overall, I would call it successful work and something that I am grateful for happening.  The Club did it right.

I have hundreds of photos but I'm choosing not to share them right now. Most great golf courses rely on great landforms, which almost never come out accurately in photographs.  I say wait to experience it in person.  The sense of scale of the elevation changes will be true, and all the little goofy humps and bumps and tilted greens of a 1920s golf course will come alive.  If still keen, I can sort through and load some to photobucket, or you could do a google search.  I think I have two images on my website too.  I think firsthand in person is still the way to go though.

Hope he has a great time
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2009, 02:43:35 AM »
Brett,

Posting pictures never hurts...especially for the "rest" of us.

Thanks
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2009, 10:02:09 AM »
Pretty much what everyone has said so far is accurate.  I spent a few years caddying there and could pretty much play the course in the dark (and nearly did every Monday where we were allowed to play) because it was so fun to play and watch other people play.  I've planned to do a "Home Course" write-up with photos for awhile but haven't for whatever reason.  This could be the reminder I needed.

The greens are great, and they tend to defy gravity like few other courses can, and I think I have figured out the reason why, something I would like to delve into further at a later date.  Your friend may here something along the lines of "Everything breaks toward 13 Mile Road."  This isn't entirely true of course, but it isn't a bad play if you are not sure what the line is.  This is especially true for the southern portion of the course, mainly the front nine, that plays along a ridge valley.  The rest of the greens are just hard to read (though they don't really look it) and require years of experience, if that.  One bit of advice here--if possible, stay below the hole on both 2 and 9, and probably 12 too.  Beyond the green is DEATH--they are that severe. 

What may be better about the course than the famed greens is its routing.  The site is really two different sites in one--a flattish plateau on the northern end that falls off into a ridge valley along the southern end, all in a nearly square shaped property.  Ross's genius here is that he brought both nines into both geographic features.  Furthermore, there is only one sequence where the holes do not change direction, between 12 and 13, but even there the wind effect still changes because 13 plays through a tunnel of dense mature oaks.  I'm not going to say anything about 13.  Let your friend experience it for himself without knowing what he is getting into.  I remember my first time caddying on it, and I am glad I knew nothing about it.  A cool, unusual golf hole, especially for Ross.

One more note, and it regards the restoration.  This may be commonly known, but Ron Prichard did a restoration of the course in 2004.  All bunkers were reshaped and deepened, some were eliminated, some were added.  I support the shaping of them, for they reflect forms that could be natural on a silty clay soil.  If they were built on sand like at Oakland Hills down the road, I might not be so giddy.  I liked the bunkers that were taken out, but the ones that were added really only serve a sort of 'framing' purpose (I'm looking at you 7 and 18).  Additionally, greens were enlarged, some fairways widened, irrigation rebuilt, and some trees removed, though not quite enough.  Overall, I would call it successful work and something that I am grateful for happening.  The Club did it right.

I have hundreds of photos but I'm choosing not to share them right now. Most great golf courses rely on great landforms, which almost never come out accurately in photographs.  I say wait to experience it in person.  The sense of scale of the elevation changes will be true, and all the little goofy humps and bumps and tilted greens of a 1920s golf course will come alive.  If still keen, I can sort through and load some to photobucket, or you could do a google search.  I think I have two images on my website too.  I think firsthand in person is still the way to go though.

Hope he has a great time

Heckuva post, thanks.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2009, 02:38:55 PM »
Heard from my friend yesterday, thought I'd share his thoughts. Please bear in mind, this is me paraphrasing from a phone call and my hearing is not very good, so don't go crazy on him OR me if I screw something up!

The first thing J said was that he loved the course and that the posts that he read on here were very accurate, particularly those highlighting the greens. He's a member at Mountain Ridge, and said while he prefers MR slightly, he loved FH and said it was a course he could enjoy playing every day. He noted that there were a lot of similarities between the two, they had a similar feel that even extended to the clubhouse, which was designed by the same architect. He felt MR is slightly more challenging, mostly due to a little extra length.

Regarding the greens, he noted that while MR has 2 greens that are pushing the envelope, he said FH has 5 or 6 (he meant this as a good thing, btw). He was a little thrown off by the practice round, which he said featured hole locations designed to screw with golfers' heads. He didn't realize it till the next day, when they were more tame.

He also said they ended up winning their flight and finishing 3rd in the shootout, so maybe his perceptions are a little biased... (I added that last part).

Lastly, he said that if you find yourself in Detroit playing Oakland Hills, you would do well to get in a round at Franklin Hills as well.

Thanks again for the info shared.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2009, 04:00:00 PM »
I drove by the course on Friday and Saturday, and thought of your friend in the Invitational.  The course looked great.  We'd gotten a fair bit of rain (not like Long Island, but not dry) before they started play, and the course was sort of outlandishly greened-up.  They had imported some extra triplex mowers, too, to do a kind of Muirfield Village number on the fairways.  Very nice.  He had a couple of wonderful days for golf.

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Franklin Hills CC in Michigan?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2009, 04:27:36 PM »
George,

Good to hear he enjoyed himself.  My guess that the greens pushing the envelope are 2, 5, 9, 12, 13(for size!), and 15 for reasons I have already discussed.  Having spent lots of time at Kingsley and lots of time revisiting my round at Crystal Downs, I would really only say 2, 5, and 9 are pushing the envelope.  Maybe it's just a separate set of standards I have, or maybe they green committee has continued their hard push to (unjustifiably) raise the green speeds as greatly as possible.

FH is only 5 miles or so from Oakland Hills.  If you can arrange a round, do it.
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

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