Bethpage/East Coast/NY Bashing...just plain BS

[Steve Lapper]

Folks,

   I am up early on this Father's Day, disturbed by the underlying tone so widely evident throughout most of the threads addressing the Open, the course, the state and the region. It seems all it takes is a select few miscreants to start bashing a course, a place, and a region many have spent soooooo very little time really experiencing or understanding. It is especially disappointing to read most of this whining as it comes from few with any real understanding of the present conditions or circumstances (3+ weeks of incessant and voluminous rains) that we here in the Metro NYC area are experiencing.

   Let me start by telling you most of us here in the NY-NJ-CT (and some even a little further south in the city of Brotherly Love) have some thick skin. We like to give it good, and as such, are willing to take it good. That's our native psychology. We like to playfully banter with anyone and lead the league in calling ourselves out on our own bull. How many of you in Chicago, Salt Lake, Boston, or points west of the Alleghanys can say that?? Do any of you look at the NY Post, Daily News, Newsday, NYT daily?How many listen to some of the NY sports radio stations? DO you even have media (other than FOx & Rush for political drivel) with differing points of view?  Few in the bigger world can rightfully say that we don't call it like we see it. Sure, our favorite Muni is yielding lower scores than we'd want, but hell, it's been non-stop raining cats and dogs here for 3+ weeks and we haven't caught more than a 24 hr break over the last 20 days!!! Try that at Bog Hill, the tree farms of Medinah, Pebble, Torrey or elsewhere....better yet, ask your super how they would pretend to keep any green quick, without sub-airs or new USGA-spec rebuilds?? At least a wise and worldly Chicagoan like Lavin understands what incessant precipitation does to a grand old-course. You didn't hear many NY'ers bush-league bashing Olympia Fields after their deluge did you?

   You want to complain about the Black's greens and defenses...call mother nature and ask her!!! Better yet, call Mother Theresa and ask her to pray for the rain to stop. Hey Mike Wagner...how much interest do you expect from a subtle-contoured green with a water table staying less than 2 inches from the surface?  C'mon, if you can't figure that out, hit the local library and start searching under agronomy. Get past google, get out from under the rock and get some idea.

   Dave, you cheerful curmudgeon , how is that you can keep going off on a bender when Sweeney outs your past and everyone else over 8yrs old on this site (that have been a member here for over 2-3yrs...back when the site was less populated by soulless fools) knows you are just vocalizing and venting the ever-hapless, losing-tolerant Chicago sports fan rant? It goes like this (and works well for Boston too, but they at least seem to have turned it around, if not temporarily ):

 "We love our losing sports teams and everything related to Bratwurst and bullying. Our "broad shoulders" yearn for the day when the national championship comes back to town(we really miss the MJ era) so we can go on another once-every-few-decades fan binge. We still worship our louts (Ditka) and liars(Sosa), but please remember us when you want award any prestigious event. Hows that Olympic effort going for you? Now that Mike Royko isn't around, ain't nobody around in our media to take on the ownership that perpetuates our losing histories." Boo hoo, boo hoo.

  Please feel free to critique the NY golf fans. Go ahead, really. While you are all nitpicking Bethpage, just ask any of the media on-site about them and please let us know how they are holding up. In fact, ask ANY of the competitors how they feel. Shy and church-mouse like, I guess they don't deserve the accolades they are getting, do they? I defy ANY venue west of the Monongahela to exhibit such engagement! Hell, even Scott Hoch loved them in 02!!  We ain't always polite, but we are smart and funny (doesn't extend south or West of the Hudson River).

Everyone else here rightfully can take pot shots at our Matt Ward...it's a perfectly fine and welcome endeavor...just look at my record of it! Matt embodies the best and worst of the NJ know-it-all mentality. Those of us who know the real Matt (the traffic reporter for 1010 News) love him and appreciate that he's become a talking pinata. But be very careful, because when it comes to Bethpage Black, only Phil Young  Doc Gene and Doc Geoff and a few other guys (self inc) who've been out there for DECADES...know as much or more about the joint. Yes, it's OUR MUNI and while we take great pride in it, it ain't perfect (never has been) and it's vulnerable (like any other damn track) to record rains with no meaningful respite! The Black is a treasure, but exposed, just like any course, to the elements.  Funny thing though, if it's the "dog" track many of you claim why don't we hear much about other places having lines of parking lot sleepovers for the right to play?

Now, before I go on too long, I suggest all of you in front of your computer pray that the angry downpours out my window this am stop. Why? Because if they do, I go out and play, participate, enjoy and don't just sit here all day giving back to you NY bashers and Saul Steinberg-depicted what you deserve.

XOXO

Happy Father's Day to all of you!!!


PS...Thx to the likes of Cirba, Kirk, Lavin, Uncle Bob and J. Goldman for being the voices of reason....something for you newer GCA'ers to learn from
 

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Steve-

Thanks for that post. You basically said everything that I've been thinking as I have read these threads. I was reading last night and was going to make a post, but I said F-it because this is such none-sense.

Bethpage is one of the coolest places in ALL of sports. Simple. If you lived in the Tri-State area for 6 weeks you might get it. It's something you can't explain.

Bethpage sums up the spirit of New York Sports.

So to all of you ripping whatever your ripping-- to quote Caddyshack- "I have to laugh"

-Mike (not the real Mike Sweeney)

[Phil McDade]

Steve:

As (presumably) one the targets of this, I'll offer my two cents. (For the record, I was born in Chicago, live in Wisconsin, and have spent considerable time in both NYC and Long Island, and find much to enjoy about all of those places. I have never played nor seen the Black in person.)

I'll let Shivas defend his argument, which is different than mine, and in fact several of the criticisms aimed at the Black and this Open have distinct differences. Here's what I don't get (based on the following facts):

-- The US Open this year saw a record-low 36-hole score.

-- The Black so far, through two rounds, has yielded 45 sub-par rounds, compared to 26 for the entirety of the '02 Open (Doug Ferguson, AP).

-- The Open this year has seen two 64s, three 65s, and 5 66s, none shot by what most anyone would consider an elite player (only Wier has won a major; only Stricker has won on Tour this year).

This is not US Open golf, in my view. It is akin to what you might see at a slightly tougher-than-usual PGA Tour stop. As I've stated before, I like to see the world's best players slog through one tournament a year -- the US Open. Par ought to be a tough standard; the USGA should make this the toughest test of the year for these guys. Its emphasis on finding the country's best and toughest courses, and setting them up to really test a player's game, is admirable and has stood the test of time -- as evidenced by the multiple US Open wins by the likes of Nicklaus (4), Hogan (4), and Woods (3), all clearly among the best golfers ever to play the game.

Did it not rain prior to, and during, the '02 Open at the Black? Wasn't the NY-area inundated by rain prior to that Open? Were the weather conditions leading up to the '02 Open that much different than those leading up to the '09 Open? (I have actually spent time this morning scouring the web for comparative precipitation data between '02 and '09 for Farmingdale...) Did the greens get re-built between '02 and '09?

The Black, to me, proved to be a worthy test of golfers, and an affirmation of the USGA's tough philosophy regarding course set-up, in '02. One player broke par, not by much (-3), and he happened to be the best golfer on the planet, ever. This year, we get Rickey Barnes, Lucas Glover, and the chocolate milk-drink guy.

Absent compelling weather data and/or on-the-ground observations that point to dramatically different weather conditions, I'm left to conclude (and I'm proud to be joined by a growing chorus of GCA Discussion Board participants; see the Mike Davis/set-up thread) that the USGA under Davis set the Black up too easy this year (or too easy for my tastes; others may differ).

[Justin Broderson]

"The Black, to me, proved to be a worthy test of golfers, and an affirmation of the USGA's tough philosophy regarding course set-up, in '02. One player broke par, not by much (-3), and he happened to be the best golfer on the planet, ever."

Has the course changed so much since?  Or is it that fact that we are going to have a record for the most rain ever in June?  

The bashing is ridiculous.  If the pros played any course in the world while soaking wet and no wind their going to tear it apart, simple as that.  I would like to invite everyone who is bashing the course do come play it with me sometime in August.  I will sleep out there and get the tee time, all I ask is that when you shoot 10(at least) shots above your handicap you come back on GCA and tell everyone how dead wrong you were.

[Phil McDade]

Justin:

I don't have a handicap (well, my handicap is that I don't play enough golf to have a handicap). But, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even be able to finish a round at the Black, under any type of set-up, because I'm a pretty lousy golfer.

But that's really not the issue here.

Can you supply some facts re. the weather that would point to dramatically different outcomes for this Open compared to '02? Doesn't a certain amount of rain become irrelevant? Does X amount of rain this year make the course play that much softer than the Y amount of rain experienced in '02? Didn't the NY-metro area suffer an inordinate amount of rain in '74, leading up to the US Open at Winged Foot (which promoted the growth of very thick rough)? What was the final winning score there that year? (I believe it was +7....)

[Steve Lapper]

Phil,

   The rains preceding this 2009 Open are vastly more substantial. We've had 8 inches of rain over the last 2.5 weeks (with only 40 odd hours of sunshine and very, very little wind), with 5 of them in the last 10 ten days. In 2002, it rained on/off for 2.5days in the ten days prior to the Open. In 2002, we had two full days of (drying) 20+mph winds during Open week (I remember windsurfing at Heckscher State park in the am and going over to a practice round after). Those atmospheric differences are enormously relevant to course playability!!

   Mike Davis' set-up is terrific...no one could make a course with such a high water-table drain any faster than the deluge that assaults it. Simple rule of hydraulics prove that if the supply of fresh fluid exceeds the ability of present fluid to drain or evaporate, fluid remains...simple!!

   Low scores happen when the game's best can throw darts and man cannot overcome Mother Nature's desire to supply vulnerability. Did we all get that? I'm sure better players would be destroying the likes of Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Merion, Pine Valley, and any other damn course if they were as soaked as the Black is right now.

  
Dave,

  The media can ALWAYS use a good skewering and I was a Bill Russell fan....so there buddy Now go back, get your warm Dos Equis, and cue up da Bears Super Bowl highlight video one more time!!


Finally, let me give you a little glimpse into the local golf scene these past few days. Yesterday, I played a well-known, newer track just across the Hudson from the city. I had five birdies on greens that are normally rock hard and wildly undulating...and my game stinks!! The club champion at my home club shot a 65 yesterday am.....four strokes better than his own 8 yr record. Five guys in the club's Invitational broke 36 for nine....virtually unheard of (btw...w/hcps' ranging from 2-12). Today the course is closed for overly wet conditions as are several other prominent and traditional venues. The NYC metro area has flash-flood warnings in NINE regional counties.
[/b]
GET THE PICTURE YET GUYS!!!!

[JC Jones]

If being on here 8 years leads me to make statements like this:

"everyone else over 8yrs old on this site (that have been a member here for over 2-3yrs...back when the site was less populated by soulless fools) knows you are just vocalizing and venting the ever-hapless, losing-tolerant Chicago sports fan rant? "

then no thank you.  Im glad that I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this site until I have been on here more than 3 years (btw, my 2 year anniversary is this summer so I've got a year to go to be legit) and even if I do have an opinion, if it is contrary to yours then I am the equivalent of a less than 8 year old kid.  If you really think that Shivas is being obnoxious or ridiculous, I wouldnt say your post did anything to distinguish yourself.

If you actually read my posts (and Dave's for that matter), I was harping on and agreeing with him on 2 things:  The media and the course.  In no way shape or form is this a knock on NYC, NYC people or ALL NYC courses.  I happen to think Long Island is the mecca of golf.  I've never been there but hope that before I am done on this earth, I'll have the chance to play Shinny, NGLA, GC, Friars, Fishers, Maidstone, etc, etc.

I apologize that I dont think every course in NY is US Open worthy and that I think the media has coastal bias.  If that makes me an 8 year old in your eyes, so be it, but only one of us is acting childish about criticism of a golf course.

 
 

[JC Jones]

oh, and Happy Father's Day to you too.

[Dan Herrmann]

If you're not up here, you can't belive the amount of rain we've had.  And now that low is off the LI coast and is forcast to retrograde back west this week.

This is a very winter-like pattern, with strong NE winds from the offshore low.  Cripes - the barometric pressure is only 29.5".   

No course could withstand this H20.

[PCCraig]

Folks,

   I am up early on this Father's Day, disturbed by the underlying tone so widely evident throughout most of the threads addressing the Open, the course, the state and the region. It seems all it takes is a select few miscreants to start bashing a course, a place, and a region many have spent soooooo very little time really experiencing or understanding. It is especially disappointing to read most of this whining as it comes from few with any real understanding of the present conditions or circumstances (3+ weeks of incessant and voluminous rains) that we here in the Metro NYC area are experiencing.

I'm not sure what Father's Day has anything to do with the US Open other than giving Jimmy Roberts more of an excuse to run boring father-son video journalist colums on Open Sunday instead of showing actual golf.

And for the record, while born and raised in Chicago, I have spent time living in both Boston (school) and New York (work). I understand the area and have nothing against either. My issues come with the Golf Fans and Golf Media of the NYC area. So the obvious arguement of "well you guys have never been here and see our passion" is true BS.

   Let me start by telling you most of us here in the NY-NJ-CT (and some even a little further south in the city of Brotherly Love) have some thick skin. We like to give it good, and as such, are willing to take it good. That's our native psychology. We like to playfully banter with anyone and lead the league in calling ourselves out on our own bull. How many of you in Chicago, Salt Lake, Boston, or points west of the Alleghanys can say that?? Do any of you look at the NY Post, Daily News, Newsday, NYT daily?How many listen to some of the NY sports radio stations? DO you even have media (other than FOx & Rush for political drivel) with differing points of view?  Few in the bigger world can rightfully say that we don't call it like we see it. Sure, our favorite Muni is yielding lower scores than we'd want, but hell, it's been non-stop raining cats and dogs here for 3+ weeks and we haven't caught more than a 24 hr break over the last 20 days!!! Try that at Bog Hill, the tree farms of Medinah, Pebble, Torrey or elsewhere....better yet, ask your super how they would pretend to keep any green quick, without sub-airs or new USGA-spec rebuilds?? At least a wise and worldly Chicagoan like Lavin understands what incessant precipitation does to a grand old-course. You didn't hear many NY'ers bush-league bashing Olympia Fields after their deluge did you?

This paragraph isn't "playfull banter," its sour grapes.

And I have the NYT delivered to my home every morning, along with the Chicago Tribune and WSJ.

And yes, we did here NYC fans complain about OFCC, and everytime an Open isn't held in their area.

   You want to complain about the Black's greens and defenses...call mother nature and ask her!!! Better yet, call Mother Theresa and ask her to pray for the rain to stop. Hey Mike Wagner...how much interest do you expect from a subtle-contoured green with a water table staying less than 2 inches from the surface?  C'mon, if you can't figure that out, hit the local library and start searching under agronomy. Get past google, get out from under the rock and get some idea.

Sure the weather has been less than ideal, but a great golf course is great in all weather conditions and finds different ways to defend itself. Bethpage Black (as a tournament course) proved itself a one trick pony

   Dave, you cheerful curmudgeon , how is that you can keep going off on a bender when Sweeney outs your past and everyone else over 8yrs old on this site (that have been a member here for over 2-3yrs...back when the site was less populated by soulless fools) knows you are just vocalizing and venting the ever-hapless, losing-tolerant Chicago sports fan rant? It goes like this (and works well for Boston too, but they at least seem to have turned it around, if not temporarily ):

I've been here longer than 3 years, and had been reading on here for longer, so apparently I'm allowed to have an opinion...which is that of all the "soulless fools" that I've seen on here, this post takes the cake. Congrats.

 "We love our losing sports teams and everything related to Bratwurst and bullying. Our "broad shoulders" yearn for the day when the national championship comes back to town(we really miss the MJ era) so we can go on another once-every-few-decades fan binge. We still worship our louts (Ditka) and liars(Sosa), but please remember us when you want award any prestigious event. Hows that Olympic effort going for you? Now that Mike Royko isn't around, ain't nobody around in our media to take on the ownership that perpetuates our losing histories." Boo hoo, boo hoo.

Our Olympic bid has already gotten farther than yours four years ago pal.

Other than golf I haven't really ever seen any Chicago guys talking sports on GCA, we leave that to the Philly guys. 

  Please feel free to critique the NY golf fans. Go ahead, really. While you are all nitpicking Bethpage, just ask any of the media on-site about them and please let us know how they are holding up. In fact, ask ANY of the competitors how they feel. Shy and church-mouse like, I guess they don't deserve the accolades they are getting, do they? I defy ANY venue west of the Monongahela to exhibit such engagement! Hell, even Scott Hoch loved them in 02!!  We ain't always polite, but we are smart and funny (doesn't extend south or West of the Hudson River).

Smart and funny is in the eye of the beholder isn't it? And being polite will get you everywhere in the world.

As for the golf course, again, as a tournament site its a one trick pony

Everyone else here rightfully can take pot shots at our Matt Ward...it's a perfectly fine and welcome endeavor...just look at my record of it! Matt embodies the best and worst of the NJ know-it-all mentality. Those of us who know the real Matt (the traffic reporter for 1010 News) love him and appreciate that he's become a talking pinata. But be very careful, because when it comes to Bethpage Black, only Phil Young  Doc Gene and Doc Geoff and a few other guys (self inc) who've been out there for DECADES...know as much or more about the joint. Yes, it's OUR MUNI and while we take great pride in it, it ain't perfect (never has been) and it's vulnerable (like any other damn track) to record rains with no meaningful respite! The Black is a treasure, but exposed, just like any course, to the elements.  Funny thing though, if it's the "dog" track many of you claim why don't we hear much about other places having lines of parking lot sleepovers for the right to play?

If I have to read another story about how its "our muni" I'm going to barf.

Now, before I go on too long, I suggest all of you in front of your computer pray that the angry downpours out my window this am stop. Why? Because if they do, I go out and play, participate, enjoy and don't just sit here all day giving back to you NY bashers and Saul Steinberg-depicted what you deserve.

XOXO

Happy Father's Day to all of you!!!


PS...Thx to the likes of Cirba, Kirk, Lavin, Uncle Bob and J. Goldman for being the voices of reason....something for you newer GCA'ers to learn from
 

[Mike Sweeney]

1. It was amazing to me how fast those greens flooded last night. Showers for 5-10 minutes and the course was completely gone.

2. Slapper- You must have some reaaaaaaly good access because I am shocked at how quickly Shivas backed down. A guy with good access is like anti-Kriptonite around here! I don't think Uncle Bob could get him that quiet.  

3. We are 36 holes into this tournament.

4. It is not over but the worst weather appears to be behind Bethpage. Here is tomorrow's forecast:

Mostly cloudy with a 40 percent chance of rain. Breezy with highs in the upper 60s. North winds 15 to 20 mph with gusts up to 35 mph.

5. In the car today but I hope to get out there tomorrow.

[Steve Lapper]

oh, and Happy Father's Day to you too.

JC,
Hey I didn't personalize it to you (but if you feel persecuted as "The Most Interest Man in the World???") ...Just going for a little equal time in the rant & rave dept (and struck a chord among others who've felt similarly). Dave Schmidt and I have bantered for years here and contributed a little bit in btw. He's a high-quality guy who loves to give it and get it without getting his panties into a knot.

I'm hardly alone in believing that this site has lost a little from it's older days. That said, I would gladly do battle to protect your right to post your opinion, no matter how misinformed .


The course is undoubtedly vulnerable (AS ANY COURSE WOULD BE WITH THIS AMOUNT OF RAIN AND LACK OF WIND!!!) and the media sells media, not truth. Like you, I don't believe every NY course in US Open worthy, but the USGA (and I'm not always their biggest fan) has found the right three to pick from (sorry their are three or more in this area, but I;m sure wherever you hail from, there are so many more worthy venues?).

Kelly,

   You redneck right-wing outta-place longhorn ...when did your better half let you out of kiddie sports to play a few holes??  No phone calls...I'm offended . Glad to see you finally realize it was all Shrub's fault. As usual, you are 100% spot on...we do have the worst football teams in the country and are damn proud of it. You see we think football is for pussies and lacrosse is the real mans sport...less padding and harder balls..actually hurts!! But you know that's not the reason we have such bad collegiate gridiron candidates...most of the better schools around here actually desire to see their students graduate and make more meaningful contributions to society XOXO Missya!

  

[jeffwarne]

If you're not up here, you can't belive the amount of rain we've had.  And now that low is off the LI coast and is forcast to retrograde back west this week.

This is a very winter-like pattern, with strong NE winds from the offshore low.  Cripes - the barometric pressure is only 29.5".   

No course could withstand this H20.
[/quot

That's actually not true as we've had 7+ inches(plus whatever we got last night) in June out east of Bethpage.
But elevation,sandy soil and USGA greens make a huge difference.
We had carts out yesterday in an event and the greens and fairways played perfectly when I played last night in the rain

[Mike Wagner]

Steve,

"Get out from under the rock??"  

Hey dude - here's my point, nothing more:  BB has the most boring greens of any Open course.  OK?  Tough to understand?  NO!!!

I'm not bashing your poor course.  All I'm saying is that I find the greens boring - that's all.

Damn, and I thought NY'ers were thick skinned and tough - it's sure how you want to come across to the rest of the world all the time......

I have nothing against NY'ers - I could play golf with Brad Fleischer every day.   I even stayed away from how I think the crowds are bad or the game.

[JC Jones]

I am the most interesting and the most persecuted man in the world!   Its harder to do than you think.

The only US Open worthy course where I come from (at least in the eyes of the USGA) is Oakland Hills.  That doesnt do much for me though because, outside of Shinny, I dont think all to highly of US Open courses (especially if they have been "doctored").  To me, I'd rather play Crystal Downs and Kingsley than Oakland Hills.  Call me crazy.

Whether this place is "not the way it used to be" is just as much the fault of the old guard as it is the newbies.  Although I will agree if you are saying that I (and the newbies, generally) take more from this place than they contribute.  It likely has more to do with capability than desire though.  Of the courses frequently discussed on here, I've only played Crystal Downs, Pacific/Bandon Dunes and Kingsley.  So, I admittedly am not as capable of contributing to the discussion as you and many others are.  So I read a lot more than I post.  I'm not sure that makes this place worse than it was before, nor does it make me "soulless."

Maybe I'll change my mind if I ever play BB.  But my posts agreeing with Dave had more to do with media bias than the course.

[Kyle Harris]

Wow, I'm sorry all.

I've been putting in too much time actually watching the golf in person instead of naysaying from the cheap seats.

To paraphrase a New Yorker from '02: "All of this, for that!?"

My opinions to come - but a lot of things are being done very right.

[Gary Slatter]

Steve, I think you are correct and one of the worst/best things on this site are opinions, some good (the ones I agree with) some bad (the ones I don't) and the very very few that make me step back and say, "maybe".  

There are very few though who take the time to wear another person's shoes. Anyway, enjoy Fathers Day and switch your computer off. Maybe Obama has changed the weather patterns.

[Scott Warren]

If the water table is less than two inches below the surface of the greens, and they have a reputation for draining slowly (isn't the road through he course called Round Swamp Rd or something?!), is it really wise that the USGA's flagship event is being played there?

In years, I haven't seen a course as flooded as Bethpage has been at times this week.

[Kyle Harris]

If the water table is less than two inches below the surface of the greens, and they have a reputation for draining slowly (isn't the road through he course called Round Swamp Rd or something?!), is it really wise that the USGA's flagship event is being played there?

In years, I haven't seen a course as flooded as Bethpage has been at times this week.

Scott,

Check the weather from this past month against the recorded normal and get back to me.

[Steve Lapper]

  
I'm not sure what Father's Day has anything to do with the US Open other than giving Jimmy Roberts more of an excuse to run boring father-son video journalist colums on Open Sunday instead of showing actual golf.

Okay...It's Father's Day, I'm a dad, so is Dave and many others...Maybe you are? Maybe you aren't but I like remembering that it's a special day.

And for the record, while born and raised in Chicago, I have spent time living in both Boston (school) and New York (work). I understand the area and have nothing against either. My issues come with the Golf Fans and Golf Media of the NYC area. So the obvious arguement of "well you guys have never been here and see our passion" is true BS.


Great. If you have issues with NY fans and NY Media (Home for the Industry, good or bad), you have issues with NY. Your past posts suggest a wider set of issues but, hey, let's not regress. Rather, tell of us why almost every single competitor interviewed by ANY MEMBER OF THE MEDIA has noted the exceptional and highly-engaged nature of the NY golf fan. Most all of the players really appreciate it and enjoy the atmosphere. Do you hear that said elsewhere on any regular basis?? Must be BS, right??

BTW..I lived and worked in Chicago for 13 yrs, still have major business and personal relationships with many there and like the place when they aren't whining about it. After kicking Harvard's ass is so many sport's I have little use for most all of Boston
   L
And I have the NYT delivered to my home every morning, along with the Chicago Tribune and WSJ.

And when was the last time any of those spent any real time calling sports teams ownership and management on the carpet. Even the NYT, one of my favorites rarely does it....and btw, the Times and WSJ have printed stories about the fan's high spirits at Bethpage...still BS???

And yes, we did here NYC fans complain about OFCC, and everytime an Open isn't held in their area.[/b]

Okay...I wasn't among them and I don't recall too much of it. I've played OFCC and like it.

Sure the weather has been less than ideal, but a great golf course is great in all weather conditions and finds different ways to defend itself. Bethpage Black (as a tournament course) proved itself a one trick pony

Find me an modern Open with so much rain preceding and during the event and tell me what the average scores were relative to past performance?? Tall task, but hey, good luck and let me know how it works for you.

I've been here longer than 3 years, and had been reading on here for longer, so apparently I'm allowed to have an opinion...which is that of all the "soulless fools" that I've seen on here, this post takes the cake. Congrats.

You too can have your cake and eat it too Meaningful substance and participation has declined around here, just look at the absence of so many of past's terrific contributors.


Our Olympic bid has already gotten farther than yours pal.

Yo pal....most of us really DON'T WANT ONE HERE...too much traffic and bs to contend with. We didn't put 200 of the cities movers and shakers in an expensive ad campaign and spend our tails off chasing it. Polls showed that well over 60% of NY'ers were against it....better things (and lots of them) to do.

Other than golf I haven't really ever seen any Chicago guys talking sports on GCA, we leave that to the Philly guys. 

Go back, use the search engine and find all the Cubs/Sox/College Football stuff.it's there

Smart and funny is in the eye of the beholder isn't it? And being polite will get you everywhere in the world.

Polite is nice, in the right place, but that and $3.50 gets u a latte/schamtte at Starbucks. As for smart and funny, well, let's just agree to disagree.

As for the golf course, again, as a tournament site its a one trick pony

I've heard the Black called a few things, but "one-trick pony" it's not. Of course, Bog Hills Dubs must be an architectural gem by your book? I've played it and the Black each over 20+ and would go 17-3 Black anytime.


If I have to read another story about how its "our muni" I'm going to barf.

Turn on the computer, the tube or grab a rag...then get the bag!

Have a Nice Day!

[/quote]
[/quote]

[Scott Warren]

If the water table is less than two inches below the surface of the greens, and they have a reputation for draining slowly (isn't the road through he course called Round Swamp Rd or something?!), is it really wise that the USGA's flagship event is being played there?

In years, I haven't seen a course as flooded as Bethpage has been at times this week.

Scott,

Check the weather from this past month against the recorded normal and get back to me.

The US Open is the big dance for US golf. If this situation can be avoided, it should be. If something has the potential to occur, it should be factored in and anything that can remove the potential should be addressed.

That much is true of organising any large event. You can't just look at what is likely and plan accordingly.

This will be what, the third US Open in a hundred years or so to go to extra days? In 2009, I don't think that's good enough.

[Kyle Harris]

If the water table is less than two inches below the surface of the greens, and they have a reputation for draining slowly (isn't the road through he course called Round Swamp Rd or something?!), is it really wise that the USGA's flagship event is being played there?

In years, I haven't seen a course as flooded as Bethpage has been at times this week.

Scott,

Check the weather from this past month against the recorded normal and get back to me.

The US Open is the big dance for US golf. If this situation can be avoided, it should be. If something has the potential to occur, it should be factored in and anything that can remove the potential should be addressed.

That much is true of organising any large event. You can't just look at what is likely and plan accordingly.

This will be what, the third US Open in a hundred years or so to go to extra days? In 2009, I don't think that's good enough.

No more Olympic Club or Pebble then - an earthquake could occur.

[Steve Lapper]

Steve,

"Get out from under the rock??"  

Hey dude - here's my point, nothing more:  BB has the most boring greens of any Open course.  OK?  Tough to understand?  NO!!!

I'm not bashing your poor course.  All I'm saying is that I find the greens boring - that's all.

Damn, and I thought NY'ers were thick skinned and tough - it's sure how you want to come across to the rest of the world all the time......

I have nothing against NY'ers - I could play golf with Brad Fleischer every day.   I even stayed away from how I think the crowds are bad or the game.

 A couple of key questions for you: How many rounds have you played on the Black? Under what conditions? Have you ever played the Black in fast firm conditions with green speeds over 12??? Why is arguably the game's greatest putter having difficulty from inside 10ft?



  I've played two NY State HS championships and several rounds pre and post the 2002 Open and when they are fast, the subtleties and nuance of the surfaces is plenty to try to tame. If you were to put more severe greens at the other ends of the fairways on the likes of 5,7,10,12,13, and 18, it would be dangerously goofy

The Black is hardly a "Boring site" as you claim and my bet is that you've played it only once or twice, under very much slower conditions (which is like what we are seeing this week) Making a one-two time call from a Barcolounger with a stiff one is no way to go through life

[astavrides]

Everyone else here rightfully can take pot shots at our Matt Ward...it's a perfectly fine and welcome endeavor...just look at my record of it! Matt embodies the best and worst of the NJ know-it-all mentality. Those of us who know the real Matt (the traffic reporter for 1010 News) love him and appreciate that he's become a talking pinata.

I don't think it is the same Matt Ward.
http://www.1010wins.com/pages/7795.php?contentType=4&contentId=102006

Or was there a rhetorical point that you were trying to make and I missed?

[Kalen Braley]

Steve,

I can appreciate the playful way your post was intended, and its all good.

But even you must admit, when you post this as your title "Bethpage/East Coast/NY Bashing...just plain BS".....
And then this in your 2nd paragraph  "We like to give it good, and as such, are willing to take it good"......

Seems more than a tad bit high on the ironical scale...