BETHPAGE BLACK'S TERROR HOLE ... THE 15TH !

[Matt_Ward]

In 2002 the 15th played right at 4.60 -- highest of any.

This year it's already at 4.6154 with only two (2) birdies against 25 bogeys, 8 DB's and three (3) at TB or more.

Tiger made DB there today and even with the wet conditions that allow for approach to hold -- just a bear to play and as
I mentioned on a separate thread - the tee boxes are not at the most length -- they included gallery stands over the far rear area.

In any listing of demanding holes for major championship golf -- the 15th at BB is right in there with the likes of the 18th at Carnoustie, the 18th at Oakmont and the 1st / 18th at WF/W, to name just a few.

[Pete_Pittock]

First round hole location is middle right. Phil hit to the back left corner and it arced back to about 15 feet. Great imagination and use of slope.

[Matt_Ward]

Be curious to see if any frontal pins are used -- likely doubtful with the overall slope and closeness to the frontal area.

[Phil_the_Author]

Dave,

That wasn't the toothpaste you smelled, it was model glue... Don't worry, you'll feel better soon...

[Mike_Cirba]

Shivas,

I know it's just payback time, but I do have to say without a dog in the fight that there isn't a course on the planet where if it's soft and windless these guys won't absolutely tear it to shreds.

I'm praying for a drought followed by hurricane force winds in 2013, frankly.

[Kyle Harris]

Those hole locations on 1, 2, and 12, amongst others I'm sure are very attackable.

All this seems to be like calling a no-hitter in the bottom of the 4th.

[Mike_Cirba]

You mean like the media did to Olympia Fields in 2003, where only 3 guys wound up breaking par after 72 holes once it dried out, but the damage to the course's national reputation was done by Friday at noon?

You mean like that?

David,

That was ridiculous, agreed.   

On the other hand, how soon will the speculation begin that perhaps its time is past if Merion is soft and some of the field go low the first day?

THe over/under is about 5 minutes after the first low score putt is holed.

[Mike_Cirba]

Well, that'd never happen because a NYC favorite, Charles Blair Macdonald, designed Merion...

Shivas,

You know I love a good rant as well as the next person, but now you're just babbling incoherently.

I had no idea that brats had hallucinogenic properties! 

[JC Jones]

He's pretty coherent and I agree.  The media has already started blaming the scores on the weather, blaming Tiger's crappy performance on the fact that he had to play 6 holes yesterday in the rain, blah, blah, blah.  Its a joke.

[Dan_Callahan]

Couldn't agree more. The combination of excuses for the course and non-stop fawning over the most obnoxious fans on the planet is getting old very quickly. Throw in a few hours of Chris Berman, who shouldn't be allowed within 500 yards of the golf commentator's booth, and it is one of the least enjoyable U.S. Opens I can remember. It's a shame, because I usually love this event. The only thing keeping me watching is David Duval's really strong play. I thought he was going to collapse when he opened his second round with all those bogeys, but he did a great job keeping it together. Would love to see him in contention at the end.

[Matt_Ward]

Dave:

You're right -- the 15th is a breeze of a hole ... no wonder the #1 player in the world and all-time DBed it the first round.

In fact, Tiger was even walking to the 15th tee -- when he left the 18th green he was four over par.

Dave, I also love your desire to highlight how many broke 72 -- hello anybody home -- par is 70. Good attempt at making a point that means nothing save to you.

Geeze Dave -- didn't Mike Weir lead the PGA Championship going into the final round at some course in your neck of the woods ? Yeah, must be a weak stick if he could play well at that big time layout in the midwest -- you know -- the one with the Michael Jackson plastic surgery attemtps -- geeze -- does anyone know the total number of times that course has been under the knife? Could well be a final jeopardy answer in the near future.

I agree with Phil -- it's time to put down the glue and get some fresh air.

Gents:

Like I said previously, the 15th at BB is one of the toughest par-4 holes period in major championship play. Save for the likes of the 18th at Carnoustie or The Road Hole at TOC -- there are few that are much tougher ... no doubt cases can be made for the 18th at Oakmont, the 18th at OH/S and the 18th at WF/W, to name a few other key challengers.

[Chris DeNigris]

The only problem with a lot of this "I hate NY" stuff masquerading as semi-relevent golf course chit chat is that you're using/abusing a great golf course to make some tired points. We get it.

[Niall C]

........anyway, back to the golf course. Butch Harmon was comentating on British TV last night and he made a comment on the 15th green. He said he had spoken to Mike Davis who had told him that the 15th green was cut at a different length to all the others due to the contours which Butch and his fellow comentators have pointed out on several occasions don't fit in with the rest. Is the 15th a recent redesign ?

Niall

[Carlyle Rood]

Hole 15, Black Course, Bethpage State Park, Farmingdale NY



Hole 15, Black Course, Bethpage State Park, Farmingdale NY

[Phil_the_Author]

Niall,

No, the greens other than 18 for 2002, have never been redesigned. The onlyy other with any NEW additions to it is the tongue on 14. All other greene xpansions were recovered original putting surfaces. Unfortunatekly, in my opinion, they have not gone anywhere near far enough and need to recover the outer 1/4 to 1/3 of many greens where the 15th then would no longer seem so singular in design...

[Niall C]

Thanks Philip, on another thread I was writing about the raised nature of the greens and the fact that you couldn't see the green surfaces from the position of the approach shot (or so it seemed to me on TV). When the course was originally designed and built, presumably the green verges at the front would have been cut at fairway length with perhaps the green being bigger at the front as well ?

Niall

[Phil_the_Author]

YES! That is why you see an enlarged front putting suface on several holes such as at 1 & 12 where it comes out PAST the gurarding bunkers!

[Matt_Ward]

It's amazing how the 15th hole played such a major role against Tiger and Phil. If there was ever a hole where they would have liked to have had a mulligan this hole is it.

Just a terrifying approach to a green that inspires mega fear. The players were most fortunate to have played it during soft conditions.

[Forrest Richardson]

I had a feeling the 15th would be a defining hole. When asked why I chose 15 for this print, it came down to the terror of the elevated green.

[Matt_Ward]

Interesting that the 15th played to 4.6 scoring average for the '02 championship and this year's average went down a bit to 4.46 with just 17 birdies -- the lowest of any hole at BB.

Makes me wonder why the 2nd green at BB doesn't have a green that is contoured as well as the 15th is -- given its elevated target status and that it features a much shorter approach.