THE USGA'S MAJOR FUMBLE AT BETHPAGE ... NO REFUND OR RAINCHECK !

[Bill Shamleffer]

There is NO good solution to this dilemma.

If the USGA allows those Thursday tickets to be used on Friday or Saturday, that is unfair to the other fans that already have tickets to only one of those rounds.  Now instead of trying to watch the Open with 50,000 other fans, they may be trying to watch the Open with 65,000 or more other fans.  That means less available parking, longer lines, less available bleacher seating, etc.

If an MLB game is rained out, they do not allow that ticket holder access to any future game; they are only granted access to a non-soldout game.

Although, many tickets are sold for the whole week, the tickets are not distributed as a single weekly pass; rather 7 individual tickets (one for each day) are sold.  That means that suddenly everyone that bought a weekly package, can now still see the next round, and can now also bring a friend to use the other ticket.

The USGA used to only sell weekly tickets, but since 2002 (at least) they have also been selling one day tickets.  With the slower sales for this year’s Open, I would expect that more single day tickets may have been sold than any time in the past.

Although the Monday option is not the perfect solution, it may be the least harmful solution to all other ticket holders and to the logistical capabilities of this tournament.

Granted, some of those possessing tickets only to Thursday's round can not come out to the tournament on Monday, but they can still give or sell those tickets to someone else.

This is a risk to all ticket purchases for events exposed to weather.  During my upcoming summer vacation I have tickets for an outdoor musical show, and a baseball game.  Ironically each ticket is the final night that I can see each event during my vacation.  Although each event allows future use of those tickets if a rainout may occur, neither one offers any refunds.  This is a very common practice.  I knew the risk and I accepted the risk.

I too felt the original USGA stance was very poor PR, but I am very impressed that they have listened to the negative feedback and offered a new option to those disappointed fans.

[Phil Benedict]

Policy or not the USGA ought to offer a refund unless the event carries over into Monday, which seems likely. I could be wrong but I think this story has legs until the USGA does something to quiet the wolves.  I heard the first call into Mike Francesa yesterday on the Fan by some bereaved ticket holder, and Mike, no slouch in the self-importance department, promised to run with the story.  My guess is that it will be topic A this afternoon.

I'm not taliking about fairness or doing the right thing.  It's a matter of what is the smart thing to do under the circumstances, and it ain't stiff-arming a bunch of wounded New Yorkers.

[JohnV]

Policy or not the USGA ought to offer a refund unless the event carries over into Monday, which seems likely. I could be wrong but I think this story has legs until the USGA does something to quiet the wolves.  I heard the first call into Mike Francesa yesterday on the Fan by some bereaved ticket holder, and Mike, no slouch in the self-importance department, promised to run with the story.  My guess is that it will be topic A this afternoon.

He probably called from the golf course on the cell phone he smuggled in.

[Mark Smolens]

Does anyone here really think that the USGA suits in Far Hills have any ability whatsoever to "grow the game?"  What is it about their past performance that leads you to this conclusion?  Television commercials with a kid making a hole in one or a guy trying to get a game in the rain?  Folks you're giving these guys way too much credit.

[Bill Shamleffer]

There is NO good solution to this dilemma.

If the USGA allows those Thursday tickets to be used on Friday or Saturday, that is unfair to the other fans that already have tickets to only one of those rounds.  Now instead of trying to watch the Open with 50,000 other fans, they may be trying to watch the Open with 65,000 or more other fans.  That means less available parking, longer lines, less available bleacher seating, etc.

Bill, I thought about this.  What do you think of my suggestion that they be allowed to come out the next afternoon?  That way the folks with next-day tickets still have the ability to get in a good half-day until 1 pm without the crowds from the day before.  Folks who don't like crowds usually come out in the morning anyway.  And they can stake out their spots before it gets toooo crowded.  Once you have a spot, it really doesn't matter how big the crowd is, as long as they're behind you!  


Although, many tickets are sold for the whole week, the tickets are not distributed as a single weekly pass; rather 7 individual tickets (one for each day) are sold.  That means that suddenly everyone that bought a weekly package, can now still see the next round, and can now also bring a friend to use the other ticket.
 Bill, isn't that only half the story?  The guy who gets to bring a friend the next day also got hosed out of 1/7th of what he paid for, so shouldn't he have the ability to get the benefit of his bargain too?


This is a risk to all ticket purchases for events exposed to weather.  During my upcoming summer vacation I have tickets for an outdoor musical show, and a baseball game.  Ironically each ticket is the final night that I can see each event during my vacation.  Although each event allows future use of those tickets if a rainout may occur, neither one offers any refunds.  This is a very common practice.  I knew the risk and I accepted the risk.

 On a base level, I agree.  They knew and accepted the risk.  But I also don't think it's fair for a guy who buys a TH ticket to get a ticket for the back 9 on Sunday (I mean, Monday).  I think he should have to go on Friday because Sunday (I mean, Monday) will be a mob scene as it is.

I too felt the original USGA stance was very poor PR, but I am very impressed that they have listened to the negative feedback and offered a new option to those disappointed fans. Agreed.

Dave,

I agree that you do offer some workable solutions.  I do like the idea of allowing the ticket to be used after 1:00 pm as an alternative solution.  To add to your solutions I offer the following:
Do not allow the Thursday tickets to be used Sunday, but do allow them to be used on either Friday, or Saturday, or Monday (or Tuesday).  This may spread out the Thursday crowd among three days.  But no refund if the ticket is not used on Friday or Saturday and if no Monday play is required.  (That is the gamble taken by those who wait for a possible Monday final round ticket.)

Of course if Saturday is completely rained out or only a couple hours of golf is played, the USGA will have big problems per how to best handle all the ticket holders who want to see some golf on Sunday or Monday.

For future ticket sales the USGA may want to consider selling the weekly packages as three individual practice round tickets plus one pass for Thursday through Sunday.  This way only those who purchase single day tickets from the USGA will need to be accommodated in case of rainouts.  (The practice round ticket holders should not be allowed to use rainouts to get access to actual tournament rounds.)  I am unsure about Master tickets, but are they only sold as a single badge for the whole week?

[JLahrman]

Does anyone here really think that the USGA suits in Far Hills have any ability whatsoever to "grow the game?"  What is it about their past performance that leads you to this conclusion?  Television commercials with a kid making a hole in one or a guy trying to get a game in the rain?  Folks you're giving these guys way too much credit.

From the USGA website...

USGA Mission Statement

Who We Are:  Golf’s governing body that is passionate about, dedicated to and expert in the game of golf.

Who We Serve:  Everyone who loves and respects the game of golf.

Our Promise:  Based on a shared love and respect for golf, we preserve its past, foster its future, and champion its best interests for everyone who enjoys the game.

 How We Deliver
● Conduct 13 national championships each year

● Write and interpret the Rules of Golf

● Regulate and test all golf equipment for conformance to the Rules of Golf

● Maintain the USGA handicap and course rating system

● Provide research-based turf management expertise

● Celebrate the history of the game


So I don't know that they say that they're trying to 'grow the game' themselves.

[Bill Shamleffer]

Well, personally, I don't want anybody to "grow the game".  I liked golf when it was the dork sport it was when I was growing up - where if you were a golfer, you pretty much HAD TO play some other sport, too, so you wouldn't get labeled a complete wuss.  

They made tennis cool for a while in the 70s and they had to put these goofy wooden boards on all the local tennis courts where you hung your rackets in order to show who got access to the court next.  Screw that.  I'd rather have golf have a gambling or steriods scandal or something so everybody hates it.  But that's just one man's opinion, from the purchaser (not the vendor) side.

Dave,

A few years back Bill Fields had a great column in Golf World about how he liked it better when golf was uncool when he was in high school.  When it was nerdy or goofy to show up at school with your golf clubs for the afterschool match.  You get the idea, similar to you own thoughts in the above posting.  I wish I had kept that article.

[Steve Lapper]

If you do not grow the game, it will shrink and that yields unintended consequences that no one here can genuinely desire (save for our resident curmudgeon, Shivas of course  ).

It may not be one of the stated mandates for the USGA, but as the "protector and de facto steward of the game," growing it becomes critical. I'm glad to see the Far Hills fools recognized the error of their ways and gave Thursday's fans another opportunity to live viewing, but the mere fact that they so quickly made the wrong decision reminds me that so many of the organization's senior management and executive committee members remain mostly clueless and inclined to protect the status quo. Perhaps they ought to consult some of the mid-level folks as they are the ones with relevant experience and wisdom, not to mention are in touch with the rest of the world.

[Cliff Hamm]

It's a business.  They owe the ticket holders nothing and are going above and beyond by offering a chance to see the Championship finish on Monday.  Let the talking heads talk.  What is said on talk radio won't take anything away from a US Open.

And let the consumer be damned...Just a great way to run an organization/corporation.  Corporate ethics or is that a contradiction in terms?

[Dan_Callahan]

The USGA doesn't need to do anything more than it already has.

I'm so sick of hearing New Yorkers bitch about the unfairness of it all. It reminds me of why I friggin' hate New York. Absolutely hate it. If I hear one more reference during the coverage to how great these New York fans are, how knowledgeable, how proud they are of their "Intimidating Black," I am going to puke.

I wish after looking at Thursday's weather and listening to the whining from the fans, the USGA just up and moved the whole damn tournament to Sand Hills, where golf could be played on a great layout without any reference to the spectators.

[tlavin]

The USGA doesn't need to do anything more than it already has.

I'm so sick of hearing New Yorkers bitch about the unfairness of it all. It reminds me of why I friggin' hate New York. Absolutely hate it. If I hear one more reference during the coverage to how great these New York fans are, how knowledgeable, how proud they are of their "Intimidating Black," I am going to puke.

I wish after looking at Thursday's weather and listening to the whining from the fans, the USGA just up and moved the whole damn tournament to Sand Hills, where golf could be played on a great layout without any reference to the spectators.

Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.  BTW, they're killing the Black today, since there's no wind and the course is wet.  Just goes to show you, doesn't matter how tough a course is, if it's wet and the greens are holding and the balls don't bounce into the rough from the fairways, these guys will kill it.

[Phil McDade]

The USGA doesn't need to do anything more than it already has.

I'm so sick of hearing New Yorkers bitch about the unfairness of it all. It reminds me of why I friggin' hate New York. Absolutely hate it. If I hear one more reference during the coverage to how great these New York fans are, how knowledgeable, how proud they are of their "Intimidating Black," I am going to puke.

I wish after looking at Thursday's weather and listening to the whining from the fans, the USGA just up and moved the whole damn tournament to Sand Hills, where golf could be played on a great layout without any reference to the spectators.

Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.  BTW, they're killing the Black today, since there's no wind and the course is wet.  Just goes to show you, doesn't matter how tough a course is, if it's wet and the greens are holding and the balls don't bounce into the rough from the fairways, these guys will kill it.

Yeah, when you see guys like Rocco spinning shots on greens out of the rough, it makes you wonder. I always chuckle when commentators -- some on the Golf Channel -- suggest the course will play just as tough when wet, because it will play longer. I don't think these guys (or the vast majority of them) are bothered by length these days. It's all about accuracy and esp. stopping balls on greens with mid-to-long irons.

[C. Squier]

It's a business.  They owe the ticket holders nothing and are going above and beyond by offering a chance to see the Championship finish on Monday.  Let the talking heads talk.  What is said on talk radio won't take anything away from a US Open.

And let the consumer be damned...Just a great way to run an organization/corporation.  Corporate ethics or is that a contradiction in terms?

The patrons who have only 1 day's worth of tickets aren't the consumer.  They are secondary buyers.  The primary buyers have 4 days worth of tickets, some of which decided to split up their packages.  Caveat Emptor for those who purchased not from the USGA, but from 3rd parties.

Refunds aren't the answer either, unless the USGA is willing to give up hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars of revenue.  I kinda doubt that'll happen.  As for spreading out the Th ticket holders over Friday and Saturday, I would think there has to be safety concerns.  Perhaps fire code issues?  I know it's red tape BS, but I can't imagive that you can stuff as many people onto a course without any regard to safe levels of crowd control.  

Dan Callahan - well said.  It'll be interesting to see how the perception of Bethpage Black changes after a few days of dart throwing.  

[Cliff Hamm]

It's a business.  They owe the ticket holders nothing and are going above and beyond by offering a chance to see the Championship finish on Monday.  Let the talking heads talk.  What is said on talk radio won't take anything away from a US Open.

And let the consumer be damned...Just a great way to run an organization/corporation.  Corporate ethics or is that a contradiction in terms?

The patrons who have only 1 day's worth of tickets aren't the consumer.  They are secondary buyers.  The primary buyers have 4 days worth of tickets, some of which decided to split up their packages.  Caveat Emptor for those who purchased not from the USGA, but from 3rd parties.

Refunds aren't the answer either, unless the USGA is willing to give up hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars of revenue.  I kinda doubt that'll happen.  As for spreading out the Th ticket holders over Friday and Saturday, I would think there has to be safety concerns.  Perhaps fire code issues?  I know it's red tape BS, but I can't imagive that you can stuff as many people onto a course without any regard to safe levels of crowd control.  

Dan Callahan - well said.  It'll be interesting to see how the perception of Bethpage Black changes after a few days of dart throwing.  

The USGA sells tickets for each day as well as packages.  So yes those who bought Thursday tickets are not secondary buyers...couldn't agree more that the USGA is not willing to give up dollars of revenue.  Also, called organizational/corporate greed.

[Matt_Ward]

David Fay will be on with Mike F from WFAN in a few minutes and it will be interesting to hear the exchange.

Cliff:

Well said ...

Dan C:

I love your anti-NY attitude ... and I say that as a Jersey guy.

The USGA is the one who blew it yesterday when they announced the no refund / no other day approach before adding the Monday component. Let me point something out to you -- the press had nothing else to write about until the USGA decided to go through with their initial approach. Talk about grooving an easy to hit pitch out of the ballpark for fast headlines and critiques. Frankly, the USGA should have understood how their legalistic by-the-book approach would have been received.

Clint:

Why don't we wait for the entire event before throwing water (no pun intended) on the Black's overall demise.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Kyle:

You must not understand the situation or maybe the english I write isn't clear enough.......

Pissing people off doesn't work to anyone's advantage ...............

And yet you do it all the time by insulting and questioning nearly everyone else's intelligence (i.e., "You must not understand") when they disagree with you!

Take a lesson from your own post, Matt!

[C. Squier]

The USGA sells tickets for each day as well as packages.  So yes those who bought Thursday tickets are not secondary buyers...couldn't agree more that the USGA is not willing to give up dollars of revenue.  Also, called organizational/corporate greed.

What does Disney World do if you only get to ride Dumbo once and it rains the rest of the day?  When you're outside, you run the risk of weather ruining the day.  I don't think it's any more complicated than that.  Corporate greed?  Come on, that's a bit of a stretch....that revenue is necessary for them to continue on as an organization.  That's not greed, it's self preservation.  Not to mention the other obsticles I mentioned, including letting too many people onto the course during Fri/Sat.  This is just a situation where they may realistically be no good answer.  We the people are getting worse and worse at accepting that sometimes; it's not always roses.  

Clint:

Why don't we wait for the entire event before throwing water (no pun intended) on the Black's overall demise.

Did I say anything about it's demise?  Unless you haven't watched a lick of the coverage, you'd know it's playing much easier than it ever did in 2002.  The perception may change from this mythical beast of a course that nobody but Tiger could defeat into what it really is....a very difficult course that the weather can greatly affect its playability.  

[JC Jones]

I think the USGA's response is fine.  They are following their current policy, maybe they can change the policy next year but you dont change these things on the fly.  Also, if it is operationally impossible to accommodate the extra people, then it is impossible.  I think this just sounds like people with entitlement mindsets whining.

And this is NOT like baseball.  With baseball they haven't sold tickets for the make up game.  Here, they have sold tickets for the next day.  It would be like giving all the people who had tickets for the Friday night game, tickets for the Saturday game even though Saturday was sold out and trying to fit 80,000 people in Fenway. 

[JC Jones]

USGA caves to public pressure.  If no Monday golf, 50% refund to the people currently holding the Thursday tickets.

[Cliff Hamm]

The USGA has now seen the light.  Besides offering Monday for those with Thursday tickets, they will offer a 50% refund if there is no golf on Monday.  My faith is restored and for those who thought it was fine to offer no refund even the USGA has finally admitted it was not.

[JC Jones]

The USGA has now seen the light.  Besides offering Monday for those with Thursday tickets, they will offer a 50% refund if there is no golf on Monday.  My faith is restored and for those who thought it was fine to offer no refund even the USGA has finally admitted it was not.

ummm.... not sure they admitted anything.  They just responded to populist pressure.  That isnt admitting anything other than you are susceptible to the publics (perceived) opinion.

[Mike Sweeney]

The USGA has now seen the light.  Besides offering Monday for those with Thursday tickets, they will offer a 50% refund if there is no golf on Monday.  My faith is restored and for those who thought it was fine to offer no refund even the USGA has finally admitted it was not.

I might need to get a dog soon as I am not getting any love around here! From the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/sports/golf/20opentix.html?hp

United States Golf Association officials announced Friday that tickets for Day 1 of the United States Open at Bethpage Black would be honored on Monday. With more rain in the forecast, golf on Monday is all but assured. But if there is no play on Monday, Day 1 ticket holders will be given a 50 percent refund, Andrew M. Cuomo, the state attorney general, announced Friday afternoon.

[Bill Shamleffer]

It does not seem likely based on the weather forecast, but if we could be fortunate enough to have no weather delays through the weekend, we could see the return of the U.S. Open Super Saturday (but on Sunday).  A 36 hole final would be a lot of fun to see.  I believe the U.S. Women's Open had a 36 hole final in the 1980s.  It really changes some of the dynamics.  A bad 3rd round has to be immediately followed-up with another 18 after only a lunch break.


One additional note per the possible 50% refund for Thursday tickets.  Will the refunds be limited to those who only bought single day tickets directly from the USGA.  Otherwise, those who bought week passes, and thus got to see 72 holes of golf, will get a partial refund even though they received everything they paid for.

[Jason McNamara]

Is there an actual number available on the number of people who bought Thursday-only tickets directly from the USGA?

Refunds for weekly pass holders is ridiculous.

Otherwise, what Shivas (and Clint and Dan) said.

[Kalen Braley]

First off,

With all the schtick, bravado, and testerone flying around in NY I'm not surprised to see any of this on the local media/airwaves.  I mean cmon this is a town where people get thier knickers in a twist and almost go to blows if their pizza isn't cooked just right.  I'm with Dan, I've been to NY city only a couple of times and I was ready to leave after a brief visit.

However, its good to see the USGA see the importance of making a compromise.  NY isn't exactly the place you want to piss off folks with all its potential consumers and well-connected business types.  Its going to Monday most likely and tix-holders should be thrilled to death cause they will likely get to see the final round drama unfold instead of the relative "yawn-fest" on Thursday.