"I'd almost consider living in New York..."

[Steve_ Shaffer]

" so I could play here for $45."

Paul Casey said this of BB:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-1193515/Reluctant-hero-Casey-relishes-major-task-US-Open-beckons.html

[John Moore II]

Not a bad call. My current boss once said he'd apply to get his amateur status back in order to play a certain course.

Though funny Casey should say that; methinks he's only a phone call away from playing it for free anytime he wants.

[PCCraig]

Could you imagine a PGA Tour Pro playing Bethpage on a busy Saturday morning? He would be so slow the ranger would probably move him up a tee box! 

[Mike_Cirba]

Could you imagine a PGA Tour Pro playing Bethpage on a busy Saturday morning? He would be so slow the ranger would probably move him up a tee box! 

Do they have 5192 yard set of tee boxes they could send the pros to at BB?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The Red tees are about 6200y.

I've told my wife about Bethpage many times and she won't consider retiring to Long Island just for quality inexpensive golf.

[John Moore II]

Could you imagine a PGA Tour Pro playing Bethpage on a busy Saturday morning? He would be so slow the ranger would probably move him up a tee box! 

Couldn't be any slower than the 8 handicapper who hits some loose shots and winds up shooting 50 on the front nine.

[Lou_Duran]

author=Steve_ Shaffer link=topic=40166.msg844076#msg844076 date=1245255228]
I've told my wife about Bethpage many times and she won't consider retiring to Long Island just for quality inexpensive golf.

Mind your wife.  As great as the Black is- much better than WF-West; considerably underrated in my opinion- Bethpage is a nightmare and the posterchild for everything wrong with public golf.  NYC is a great place for the super rich.  When I went to Ohio State in the 1970s we were always amazed at the huge number of NYC natives who went to school there, how invariably annoying they were, and that they always whined about what a cowtown Columbus was.  Much to our chagrin, very few seemed to ever leave.  Oh, I should disclose that I have a son living in Manhattan for five years now, and he rather likes the place.  Once an excellent golfer, he seldom plays anymore, and has only been to Bethpage once where they could only manage to play one of the lesser colors.  It took all day to play an incomplete round on course he thought was below average.  Too big of a hassle. 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Lou,

I'd prefer to play the Red at Bethpage over Black on 98-2 ratio if I were a local. I haven't played Blue, Green or Yellow.

Your comment about New Yorkers at OSU applies to Penn State in the 1960s as well although they did leave to return to NY or wherever.  State College is not Columbus.

[Anthony Butler]

author=Steve_ Shaffer link=topic=40166.msg844076#msg844076 date=1245255228]
I've told my wife about Bethpage many times and she won't consider retiring to Long Island just for quality inexpensive golf.

 As great as the Black is- much better than WF-West; considerably underrated in my opinion- Bethpage is a nightmare and the posterchild for everything wrong with public golf.

Lou,

If your first statement is true. It's hard to see how your second observation could be anything else. A course better than WFW for anyone with a NY State driver's licence and $45? It's going to be a madhouse no matter what. The Bethpage courses do 300,000 rounds a year, but when you think of how long it takes to play any decent public course–and how much more they cost–Bethpage is a great asset for Long Island golf.

I disagree with both your statements, however. BPB has some awesome golf vistas from the tees.. the challenge of the holes in front of you is just awesome. WFW is a better course in just about every other way than BPB. It's a more enjoyable challenge for a greater range of golfers. The greens and green complexes are more varied at WFW, and WFW is in better condition than BPB. At least it was in the late 90s. I can't vouch for how well it BPB has been maintained day to day 2002-9, but it's hard to imagine it could be better than WFW.

Most people would also accept WFW is a much better reflection of AWT's original design intent.

Mind you, I just heard someone on The Golf Channel say that BPB "is perhaps Tiilinghast's masterpiece" so you're not alone in your opinion!

 

[Doug Braunsdorf]

author=Steve_ Shaffer link=topic=40166.msg844076#msg844076 date=1245255228]
I've told my wife about Bethpage many times and she won't consider retiring to Long Island just for quality inexpensive golf.

Mind your wife.  As great as the Black is- much better than WF-West; considerably underrated in my opinion- Bethpage is a nightmare and the posterchild for everything wrong with public golf.  NYC is a great place for the super rich.  When I went to Ohio State in the 1970s we were always amazed at the huge number of NYC natives who went to school there, how invariably annoying they were, and that they always whined about what a cowtown Columbus was.  Much to our chagrin, very few seemed to ever leave.  Oh, I should disclose that I have a son living in Manhattan for five years now, and he rather likes the place.  Once an excellent golfer, he seldom plays anymore, and has only been to Bethpage once where they could only manage to play one of the lesser colors.  It took all day to play an incomplete round on course he thought was below average.  Too big of a hassle. 

Lou;

  As near and dear Bethpage is to my heart, I agree with your statement.  The golf courses-particularly Red-and to a lesser degree, Black and Green, are so wonderful, but it's just such a pain in the ass to play there, it takes 5 1/2 hours, marshals and many staff are useless and more often rude at the same time, to name several attributes.  Unless you're off the 1st tee by 7am or so, or maybe going off very late in the afternoon (read: finishing in near darkness), it will be quicker.  Have you ever seen the waits at the first tee in the late morning and early afternoon?  It's disgusting, and takes a lot of the fun out of it.  I'm just calling it as I see it. 

I'm not the fastest player around, but I'm not slow, and I will be respectful of my group and in relation to other groups.  I never hesitate just to pick it up if I'm hacking up a hole and potentially holding everybody else up.

The Monday after the US Open in 04, I walked off Green--it took 2 hours to play 6 holes.   

In comparison, last year, I went to Tallgrass on a Saturday, (about mid-May), maybe 1pm.  Walked up, was on 1st tee within 5 minutes, and played in a little over 3 hours.  Perfect. 

[Mike Sweeney]

I disagree with both your statements, however. WFW is a better course in just about every way than BPB. It's a more enjoyable challenge for a greater range of golfers. The greens and green complexes are more varied at WFW, and WFW is in better condition than BPB. At least it was in the late 90s. I can't vouch for how well it BPB has been maintained day to day 2002-9, but it's hard to imagine it could be better than WFW.

I had a friend call me yesterday out of the blue. He lives in San Francisco now and when he used to live in NY, we made a couple of trips to The Black pre-renovation. He is relatively short in length but makes up for it with a wedge game that would have added Majors to Jack Nicklaus' resume. He called because he had read the NY Times coverage of The Black and wanted to reminisce.

Tee to green, I think Bethpage is one of the great ones in golf and the greatest by Tilly. WFW and WFE certainly blow BB away on the greens, but that does not detract from the awesome shots that are unique to that course.

In terms of maintenance, it is as good as any save for a few such as Atlantic and Eastward Ho!. It has turned into this sort BombSquadGolf Mecca where everyone seems to repair their ball marks now. I miss the ability to play the course, since I just don't have the patience to get on or spend all day on the course, but that is part of its evolution.

My dream foursome would be Matt (for his 276th round at BB  ), Phil Young and Dr Gene at BB. I am guessing we would be the problem for pace of play that day because the arguments would be long. Hopefully the rain is not too bad the next four days, but clearly with what is already on the ground, the real BB will be somewhat hidden by soft greens.

PS. Paul Casey, after you pay your tax bill to Albany tell me if you still think BB is cheap!

[Dan Herrmann]

Remember - you can live in ANY part of New York to get those rates.  Niagara Falls, the Finger Lakes, the Adirondacks, etc..  There's a lot more to NY than Long Island.

That said, the quality of NY's state owned courses isn't quite as good in the Western NY area

[JWinick]

As a native of Long Island, there are not many good public course options except for the Bethpage complex, and Oyster Bay.    Long Island has, arguably, some of the finest golf courses in the world, though.  #20 on Long island would be a top-five golf course in most major cities. 

However, while private clubs are less than 25% nationally, the vast majority of clubs on Long Island are private.   That may change as, unfortunately, many are struggling right now.   But, the reason the Bethpage complex can be such a death march reflects the lack of choices in the area.

I would argue that they charge way too little and need to price the round at $75 to slow demand and increase pace of play.   I played there for the first time in November and had a blast....  The scale of the property can only be appreciated in person. 

[George Pazin]

Kinda funny and sad how every time any announcers mention the fans at BB, they feel the need to preface it with how knowledgeable NY golf fans are.

I did my time, wouldn't consider moving back. Nice golf courses, though.

[Justin Broderson]

I slept in my car 3 weeks ago to play the Black.  We were the second group off in the morning and did not have to wait one tee shot.  Everyone in the group was a pretty good golfer, the highest was index was me at 10.  It still took 5+ hours with caddies.  It really didn't bother me though because as stated we never waited on a single shot.  The course is just so massive and sprawls over so much land that it takes that long to play.  I'm not sure if the other courses are the same as I've only played the Black.

[David Kelly]

...We were the second group off in the morning and did not have to wait one tee shot.  Everyone in the group was a pretty good golfer, the highest was index was me at 10.  It still took 5+ hours with caddies.  It really didn't bother me though because as stated we never waited on a single shot...

Of course its pretty hard to be backed up if you are the second group of the day to tee off.  The question is whether your 5+ hour round held up anyone behind you.

[jeffwarne]

I slept in my car 3 weeks ago to play the Black.  We were the second group off in the morning and did not have to wait one tee shot.  Everyone in the group was a pretty good golfer, the highest was index was me at 10.  It still took 5+ hours with caddies.  It really didn't bother me though because as stated we never waited on a single shot.  The course is just so massive and sprawls over so much land that it takes that long to play.  I'm not sure if the other courses are the same as I've only played the Black.

There's got to be a typo in there somewhere

Of course you weren't waiting....and if you never waited, you were out of position.
That's a ranger not doing his job with your group and if you could see the first group, he wasn't doing his job with them either.
The group behind you probably stayed respectfully back of you(or was playing equally slow but felt with you in sight it was OK), giving you the impression no one was waiting for you.
But rest assurred the groups behind them were waiting-certainly at some point.
If group #2 was "5 + hours", midmorning  and afternoon groups have no chance of finishing under 6 hours.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

ut New Yorkers at OSU applies to Penn State in the 1960s as well although they did leave to return to NY or wherever.  State College is not Columbus.

In my first week at the University of Virginia, a professor told us, "You're all complaining about Charlottesville now, but you'll all come back here to die."

Based on the ads in the alumni magazine, he was right.

[Carl Nichols]

It really didn't bother me though because as stated we never waited on a single shot. 

I certainly hope that wouldn't bother you, since it was entirely your own doing.  No course is so difficult that it should take 5+ hours to play if you're not waiting.