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Steve_ Shaffer

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Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« on: June 17, 2009, 10:12:35 AM »
In these economic times, a casino is building a new course!!! Congrats to Jeff!!!







Prairie Band golf course planned
 
Associated Press - June 15, 2009 3:24 PM ET

TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) - The Prairie Band Casino and Resort says it's going to build a golf course as part of its operations.

The tribal casino said Monday it would build an 18-hole course on 240 acres across the road from the casino. It said the $8.5 million project will be completed next summer and will be known as the Firekeeper Golf Course.

It will be the first Notah Begay III signature golf course, design by the only American Indian on the PGA tour and golf course architect Jeff Brauer. They said the course will make minimal changes in the landscape and use many of the natural features in the course's design.

It also will be only casino in the area with a golf course.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 10:46:04 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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Scott Macpherson

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Top
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 10:21:27 AM »
what, so they aren't going to move '25 million cubic feet of earth' like Tiger is in Dubai?

Good for them.

scott
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Tony_Chapman

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 10:22:16 AM »
It appears that is might not be a bad canvas to work with. Good luck Jeff!

Maybe one GCA guy could design a hole and the winner gets to play in a foursome with you, Notah and his "more famous" college teammate at the grand opening?!  ;D

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=topeka+ks+casinos&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=5vo4So36J4LMM9XtlIsN&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=image&resnum=1
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 10:35:56 AM »
Tony,

That isn't the site. Its actually 15 miles north in Mayetta, KS, on Road 150, just west of US75 shown on that map. I tried to post a routing, but my JPEG exceeds the 300KB limit.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Kalen Braley

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 10:57:17 AM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on June 17, 2009, 10:35:56 AM
Tony,

That isn't the site. Its actually 15 miles north in Mayetta, KS, on Road 150, just west of US75 shown on that map. I tried to post a routing, but my JPEG exceeds the 300KB limit.

Jeff,

You can re-size it to get it 300k or less.  Or if you email it to me I can do it for you...would love to see the routing, this looks very interesting.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 11:02:00 AM »
Okay, I compressed the routing and will try to attach.  Obviously, not as clear, including the scorecard.

Yardages for the five tees are about 7450,6850,6350,5750 and 4850.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Kalen Braley

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 11:07:56 AM »
Jeff,

Interesting stuff.  I know its not in the ground, but 10 and 18 really popped off the page for me as very interesting holes.  How long will that carry be to the right fairway on 18 from the middle tees?

I was curious what the dark green is as well?  Are those trees?

Thanks,
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Tony_Chapman

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 11:21:08 AM »
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Tony_Chapman

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 11:22:37 AM »
Jeff -- I notice the property is shaped a bit like and "L"; did you have to widen any of that top area to make the holes fit? Sorry, couldn't resist.  ;D

Is that a double green I see with the first and sixth? If it's half the fun of Sand Creek Station, I'll go play it!
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 11:24:49 AM by Tony_Chapman »
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 11:37:06 AM »
Tony,

Cute, and I love it. But no, there is no agreement for flexible boundaries.  What we have to work with shows below.

1 and 6 are a big honkin double green.  10 is going to be a version of Mac's South America shaped green.  The carry on 18 is about 275-280 from the tips.  6 FW also features a "Buffalo bunker" and No. 1 includes the Flame Bunker, all tribal symbolism, providing they look decent on the ground.  9 should bear some resemblance to 18 at ANGC.

I hate to reference other holes too much, but will say that Notah is very articulate and very involved in the concepts (and I say this with lots of experience working with Tour Pros) so referencing Top 100 courses we have both played is good shorthand to quickly communicate concepts.  In many ways, he sounds like other Tour Pros - generally liking a What you see is what you get approach, but the 4th features a blind shot and fw bunker not unlike 4 at Royal St. George, and he has asked for a Redan (7 Green) and Biarritz (most likely 13 green, but not decided yet) so he likes CBM as much as I do.  

Funniest line from his presss conference on Monday -  "Unlike Tiger, I got a bachelors from Stanford, but he got 4 Masters instead."  Notah did graduate with a degree in economics.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 11:42:41 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Anthony Gray

Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 11:38:33 AM »


  18 looks AWESOME.

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PCCraig

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 11:59:39 AM »
Jeff-

I like the double green on the front nine. It would be cool if you could alternate the side players played to each day. So one day the players on the first hole play to the southern green, then the northern the next. And vice versa.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2009, 12:06:52 PM »
This has a link to the press conference if you want to see some gca who would have shaved if he thought there was a chance on earth that he would be interviewed on TV bumbling on about some design or another!

http://www.ktka.com/news/2009/jun/15/firekeeper_golf_course_set_midsummer_2010/

Those big mounds of dirt in the opening shot are of the 1-6 combo green, but were merely placed by the dirt movers and will be softened up a lot.  I thought it was ironic that those were showing when they talk about not moving much earth but it was wet and the camera guys couldn't get too far off the road......
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tony_Chapman

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2009, 12:15:28 PM »
Good stuff. With 18 being a 280 carry from the backs is that hole in the 400 yard range, or so? It looks really fun, but I doubt you can make the 13th green as cool as the "sideways Birraitz" at SCS.


The par-5 fourth at Sand Creek Station
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Peter Pallotta

Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2009, 02:53:50 PM »
Can't read anything on this BB, but wanted to add my congratulations, Jeff.
Peter
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Rob Rigg

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2009, 08:19:48 PM »
Jeff,

Is it as walkable as it looks? Greens and tees look pretty close and there seems to be a lot of interesting movement throughout the course?

Congrats on the gig - sounds like a good situation with NB3
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2009, 08:51:34 PM »
Jeff,

You do have to see the irony of working with an L-shaped piece of land as your next job.  ;)

Thank God you've had such good training on routing such an odd configuration hanging with us on the thread that never ends.   ;D

Congratulations, and best wishes with the project!!! 
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Evan Fleisher

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2009, 09:09:01 PM »
Looks interesting Jeff!  Anxious to hear more about it on Monday!
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Doug Siebert

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Top
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2009, 02:03:23 AM »
18 looks interesting, but I always wonder what the incentive is to even try the risky route on a hole like that.  There's a local course that has a less cool looking version of that idea, a straightaway par 4 of 405 yards with a 10 yard wide stream cutting across the fairway at 285 yards, so you need 295 to clear it.  It was designed 20 years ago so it was never intended that anyone would try to clear it, I guess it was one of those holes designed to make longer hitters think instead of just automatically pulling driver.

Since it plays with the prevailing wind its doable with modern equipment, but the only time I ever try is during a scramble.  Otherwise even if I could be 99% sure I could pull the shot off (don't know that I'm really even 19% sure, especially since the carry gets longer when you hit it offline ;)) the gain from hitting my approach from 50 yards closer is just not worth it.

If going over the stream allowed a chance at driving the green, or allowed going for a par 5 in two, the risk/reward calculation might become a bit more interesting.  Correct me if I'm wrong (since I can't read the hole distances in the scorecard) but it looks like this hole just allows you to trade a short iron at the green for a SW?

Perhaps this hole is more interesting to pros for whom that extra 50 yards closer makes a real difference in scoring, and who are consistent enough in their tee shots that most of today's pros can be pretty sure of making that carry unless conditions are unfavorable.

Sorry to sound critical because it looks like pretty cool layout, I'm just trying to understand the strategy behind this hole.  As you can see it makes no sense to me, but maybe I just don't get it :)
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Someone is actually building a new golf course- Firekeeper GC(Brauer) in Topeka
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2009, 08:55:36 AM »
Doug,

Your questions are pretty logical and as a par 5 it might make more sense, but you take what the land gives you.  As it stands, the short cut route is about 400 vs 445. That translates to a 3 club difference which is generally enough to make a good golfer think about it, especially on the last hole.  I will also be extending the back two tees a bit, so that the hole might be shortened a la USGA on some days to make it drivable.  Along with 17 that might be quite a finish - depending on wind, one of the two could be drivable any given day.

The course is meant to be walkable and the greens and tees are as close together as I dare put them.  The only longish walk is from 7 to 8 and originally, 7 was 9 and 8 was 1, but we got a case of the willies on making 9 a par 3.  As always, I predict the first pro will suggest changing something in the routing, and I am leaving that to his discretion.  In reality, it would be an easier walk, but the current numbering allows No. 2 to come back to the clubhouse, just in case a golfer realizes he needs to do....ah, do a number 2.  Or 1.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach
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