[Paul Carey]

Brad Klein's mini review of 18 at Bethpage.  

Faint praise if I ever heard it.   A subtle slam on Rees' rework of 18.

Klein on Design: No. 18 at Bethpage
Bradley S. Klein, Golfweek’s architecture editor, offers his opinion on one great hole:

Yards: 411
Architect: A.W. Tillinghast; Rees Jones (2000)
Where: Farmingdale, N.Y.
Event: U.S. Open, June 18-21

It’s great because . . . it’s much better for the average player hitting driver from the middle tees than for the U.S. Open golfer laying up from the back. From a dramatically perched tee, the hole plays to a bellowed fairway that’s littered with bunkers on both sides. The approach plays to an elevated green set in front of the clubhouse. It all makes for great visuals and a demanding tee shot that has to thread the deep sand and thick rough.

It would be even better if . . . this wonderful stage didn’t produce disappointing theater. Rees Jones’ reworking of A.W. Tillinghast’s original design effectively takes driver out of the equation for long hitters. There’s little reward for hitting a bold drive because the carry past the narrow neck of the fairway is 315 yards from the back tee. That means everyone lays up to the 37-yard-wide fairway short, leaving a 175-yard approach. That’s a bit of a letdown for the 18th hole of a U.S. Open. The last array of bunkering should be removed, giving strong hitters reason to consider hitting driver, because they’d obviously prefer hitting wedge in rather than a 7-iron – provided the risk/reward ratio is more balanced.

[Tom Dunne]

It would be great if someone posted a picture of the 18th as it was prior to the Reestoration.

[Joe Bausch]

It would be great if someone posted a picture of the 18th as it was prior to the Reestoration.

Well, I don't have something just before the Reestoration of No 18, but how 'bout a very early aerial of the 18th?

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

The old 18th was just as deadly dull as the version you'll see this week.

The main issue I have is that the high holy Tillie defenders don't see the need for a completely different hole -- a driveable risk/reward type closer since BB doesn't have any real notable short par-4's throughout the round -- and that includes the 2nd which is the only hole that will play under 400 yards as a par-4.

The oild 18th and the existing one are exactly what Brad Klein metions. It's fairly standard fare for people to hit whatever will get them in front of the dual bunker complex that splits the fairway and then approach from roughly 175 yards to a non-descript green which was a shrunk about 25-30% and with the front bunker being pushed closer to the green surface.

The 18th really faily to solidify the deal at BB -- especially when you look at the preceding three holes that come before it. There are some who have called for ANOTHER long par-4 (see Phil Y and a few others) but that would only mean another muscle hole to a course that has plenty of them.

 

[Carl Rogers]

Can at least a few of us on this site agree that the 18th at present is not a particularly great hole, but can not agree as what to do about it?

[Phil_the_Author]

Dave,

If that is what you keep hearing on the golf channel they are way wrong. Probably they are mixing up yje length of the original Lenox Hills CC which became the Green course and was a bit over 6,220 yards.

The Black was well over 6,800 yards (I have the exact lengths of every hole at home and will post them when I get back). For example, the 7th hole was a 600-yard par-5 from the championship tee.

Tilly DID design a drivable par-4 at Bethpage, the 5th hole on the Blue course, the Reef hole. It was the only par-4 Reef that we know he designed and measured 305 yards and was flat with no elevation changes.

The 12th hole on the Black measured a quite stout 480 yards from the championship tees and was par-4!

Of course Matt's still wrong in his Ahab-like determination to turn 18 into a drivable par-4! 

[Tom_Doak]

I will question Dr. Klein's logic that everyone will lay up and accept a 170-yard second shot into that green this week.  That's how Nick Faldo would play the hole, but a lot of the young guys today would rather have 115 yards out of the bunkers, even if they miss the fairway.  (Davis Love told us the same thing about Oakland Hills ten years ago.)  And none of them are shy about hitting driver.

[Philippe Binette]

something I always wondered... how Faldo never won the US Open??? I remember watching him play every approach to the middle of the green at Muirfield.... wedge from 125... 30 feet from the hole middle of the green... 3 iron from 210... 30 feet from the hole middle of the green...

thought it was boring

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

The vast majority of players are using hybrids off the tee with a few three-metals mixed in. I've heard a number of players say that they prefer laying back behind the trouble on the widest and flattest area of the hole. It will be interesting to see how it plays the next few days...

[Tom_Doak]

Phil:

I haven't seen the revised fairway bunkers.  Are they so nasty you can't hit a 9-iron out of them up to the green?

[PCCraig]

something I always wondered... how Faldo never won the US Open??? I remember watching him play every approach to the middle of the green at Muirfield.... wedge from 125... 30 feet from the hole middle of the green... 3 iron from 210... 30 feet from the hole middle of the green...

thought it was boring

He got very close at The Country Club in 1988.

[Mark Woodger]

Tom D - i don't think they prevent a player hitting a 9 iron out of them. when i played there (a year back) i didn't view them as particularly deep or troublesome if you were in the base of the bunker. as always the edges would cause more issues.

i think 18 straight pars by faldo is one of the best achievements in golf particularly in the final round of a major (i think i am correct in saying it was the final round) and one could argue it is the perfect round as you have played every hole in the prescribed number of shots. full disclosure: i am fan of faldo so i am biased.

overall its not a great great hole but i would not describe it as simple by any means.

[Phil_the_Author]

The players seem to universally be trying to "play smart" and get to the weekend!

They had worked very hard at fluffing up the sand and increasing its depth to make them as difficult to get out of as possible. Unfortunately, something like 20 straight days of some significant rain has compacted everything back down. They are very heavy...

[Matt_Ward]

Dave:

Keep this in mind OK -- I'm not driven by this incessant bug to follow the original intent of the architect. Courses do change and the 18th at BB needs to change. It is dullsville. There have been changes made but they were nothing more than tweaks of one type and the other and certainly it has not resulted in a closing hole befitting what you encounter for the three holes before it.

I'd like to see a world class short par-4 to close out the course because muscle holes predominate the round there.

The option to go for the green would need to have a hole that would be totally different to the one that's there now. I don't see many players -- inspite of what Tom D said -- that will opt for the driver and flirt with the cluster bunkers encountered there.

The image of the Black should not be 100% linked to simply one muscle hole following the other. No doubt many of them are well done and worthy of their standing. But the finishing hole could provide that missing link that exists now.

[Dan Herrmann]

I read that 18 could end up being swampy for the Open.  Is it usually that wet, and if so, what could be done long term to help?

[PThomas]

I will question Dr. Klein's logic that everyone will lay up and accept a 170-yard second shot into that green this week.  That's how Nick Faldo would play the hole, but a lot of the young guys today would rather have 115 yards out of the bunkers, even if they miss the fairway.  (Davis Love told us the same thing about Oakland Hills ten years ago.)  And none of them are shy about hitting driver.

Davis SHOULD have laid up on 18 in that Open at Oakland Hills!

[Matt_Ward]

Dan:

The area of the fairway at #18 does get wet although much has been done by the club to rectify what's happened in the past.

[Tom Dunne]

I will question Dr. Klein's logic that everyone will lay up and accept a 170-yard second shot into that green this week.  That's how Nick Faldo would play the hole, but a lot of the young guys today would rather have 115 yards out of the bunkers, even if they miss the fairway.  (Davis Love told us the same thing about Oakland Hills ten years ago.)  And none of them are shy about hitting driver.

Today Alvaro Quiros nearly flew the right-side bunkers...with a 3-wood.

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom,

By all accounts Alvaro Quiros is ridiculously long.
The Spaniards are very big on his long-term prospects.

[Patrick_Mucci]

You're ALL* idiots.

This is a public course that gets thousands upon thousands of rounds per year from amateurs, and suddenly after close to a century, you're analyzing the hole in the context of 40-150 of the Best golfers in the world playing there 2 to 4 days every decade or so.

# 18 is a terrific golf hole.

Who amongst you, who have played it, think otherwise ?


*  Well, almost all of you.

[Bill_McBride]

I will question Dr. Klein's logic that everyone will lay up and accept a 170-yard second shot into that green this week.  That's how Nick Faldo would play the hole, but a lot of the young guys today would rather have 115 yards out of the bunkers, even if they miss the fairway.  (Davis Love told us the same thing about Oakland Hills ten years ago.)  And none of them are shy about hitting driver.

170 yards used to be a 5 or 6 iron.  Today it's an 8 iron, big difference.  Safety tee shot, 8 iron second.

[Phil_the_Author]

Pat,

Thank you for recognizing "* Well almost all of you" that I am not an idiot! 

[Mike Sweeney]

You're ALL* idiots.

This is a public course that gets thousands upon thousands of rounds per year from amateurs, and suddenly after close to a century, you're analyzing the hole in the context of 40-150 of the Best golfers in the world playing there 2 to 4 days every decade or so.

# 18 is a terrific golf hole.

Who amongst you, who have played it, think otherwise ?


*  Well, almost all of you.

Patrick,

I, like you, tend to defend Rees on this website. He made 18 better, but it is not terrific. One hole on every course has to be the worst hole. Not sure if it is #18 or #3, but it is one of them for me.

I looked at Google Earth today and there is less room than I thought towards Red #1, so it is not necessarily his fault.

My suggestion to Mike Davis is to play it up at the 330 or so tees tomorrow. Not drivable, but more interesting than plugged balls.

[Ronald Montesano]

Have we forgotten so soon that Tiger played the short par four on Sunday at Torrey last year as a lay-up?  Why, then, is a pinched fairway suggesting hybrid a bad hole?  I've been at Bethpage for both Opens and find absolutely nothing wrong with #18.  I would say this with or without Mr. Mucci's encouragement.  I look forward to my next trip to L.I., when I will play all five Bethpage courses.  Like Bandon, why go if you can't play them all?

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