What Precise Features of The Old Course Influence Modern Architecture?

[Anthony Gray]

  Many times you hear that architects get inspiration/ideas from The Old Course. What on or about the The Old Course makes it so influential?

 Anthony

[ed_getka]

That is a great question. I look forward to hearing what the architects have to say.

[Rich Goodale]

I asked this question of a number of architects in the process of writing of my book on the Old Course and none of them mentioned precise features, even though some referred to them in a general sense.  I'll wait and see if any come onto this thread to say anything more precise.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I focus my thoughts quite a bit on TOC, although only on some holes. I don't really figure anything great about 1, 8 or  even18 although the valley of sin is an obvious dip that can be used almost anywhere on the course. Mainly I like the 7th/11th complex, I have used the bump infront of 4, the ridge on the 2nd green, the slope front left of 16, the trio bunkers of the principals nose, I think 12 is too severe so I guess I bastardise that a bit.
I would like to recreate a '17th green', but would not do an exact copy, 13 I like too.
The easier tee shot left, more difficult approach versus a tough line to the right but easy route in from the left is always in my thoughts.

[Kalen Braley]

I would think the #1 thing would be all the current blindness of hazards and tee shots in general that is so prevelant on modern courses... 

That and the highly countoured greens found on most of todays courses as well. 

[Bill_McBride]

Probably not double greens as they don't seem to have caught on, and usually aren't great when attempted - a few exceptions notwithstanding!

I think it's the use of natural features to build a hole around rather than manufacturing a hole.  There obviously wasn't a lot of dirt moved at TOC, although the High Hole #7/11 certainly seems it might have been and we know #18 was.  It was clever use of the existing ground to locate holes onto that makes it so cool.

Strategic principles are also derived from TOC, such as how difficult the approach shots going out are when you play well left of the dangerous line of gorse.  Ditto the Road Hole if you steer safely left of the sheds that are OB and now must confront the Road Bunker and the road.

The magic of how to play the Long Hole #14 in all kinds of weather avoiding all those hazards is a case study in strategic design and course management.

Making every hole a unique hole is also something that architects can take from the Old Course.

[Tom_Doak]

Over the course of 30 courses, I have built several elements of holes of my own which mimic features on The Old Course:

3rd hole - back of green - 8th at The Renaissance Club
4th hole - mound in front - 6th at The Legends
11th hole - Eden - 13th at Beechtree, 2nd at Old Macdonald
12th hole - green complex - 7th at Riverfront, 7th at The Rawls Course
12th hole - fairway bunkering - 5th at Sebonack
14th hole - green - 6th at Old Macdonald
17th hole - green - 7th at The Legends and 11th at Old Macdonald

I only wish that we could emulate The Old Course better in our own work, but some elements of it are impossible to imitate consciously ... they just had to happen.

[Michael Robin]

Tom -

Haven't you used the Road dynamics a couple of other times? Thinking about the 14th at Cape Kidnappers and this one kinda blew me away last month when playing Pacific Dunes, but isn't the 6th at PD a Road Hole? Drive it over the right bunker(Old Course Hotel) to get the proper angle to the green, avoid the bunker left and don't fall off the right side. It's quite a bit shorter, but the angle strategies seem right. Am I in the hunt here?

[Dan Herrmann]

How about the obvious item from TOC that's everywhere today - 18 holes!

[Joe Hancock]

I was going to say contours on greens, but I don't know if that is specific in any regard.

Joe

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:  You are right about the 14th at Cape Kidnappers ... I forgot to mention it.

But I never once thought about the Road hole when working on #6 at Pacific Dunes.  I don't remember thinking about any other hole with that one, really ... just thinking that the bunker on the left would be as deep as anything at Yale.  I'm sure that some of the angles on that hole could be compared to others elsewhere, but that's a pretty generic similiarity.

[Michael Robin]

Tom - Here's another query, is the 5th at Ballyneal inspired by the Eden? One of the great Hill bunkers of all time, spectacular green slopes too.

[Garland Bayley]

Define Modern Architecture. It would seem that most courses still being built today are following RTJ more than TOC.

[Sean_A]

A few general thoughts that are related to the idea a guy being out of position, but still very much in play. 

1. The use of ground features which are for or against play.

2. An available safe play which will require deft approaching/chipping to earn a par. 

3. Centre-line hazards.

4. Minimal elevation change can yield top notch golf and may even be preferred over the long haul.

I can accept that TOC wasn't alone in presenting the features mentioned above, but there isn't a course on earth which better exemplifies the combination of these elements and in such a consistent manner.  Perhaps this is why archies are so terrified of trying to recreate another TOC - it would most likely come off as a poor cousin.

Ciao