Yes, Tom this is a sticky subject to get involved with. There are currently several threads on the front page that are terribly long, and if you sort the threads by highest number of posts, you'll get 4 or 5 more on that first page. This time last year that discussion has disintegrated into some pretty harsh name calling and real crappy stuff going back and forth between a few of the parties. One of the names that sticks in my mind was one of them was referred to as a 'self-impressed gnat.' And for all these hours of research and debate, I'm still not sure there has been anything resembling a conclusion reached; almost certainly not one that can be condensed into something short. 95% of us on the site have really given up trying to keep track of it.