Phil Young's Nuts and Bolts look at the Black (Hole 18 in progress)

[Charlie Goerges]

I'll be posting aerial images of the Black and Phil Young will be posting a run-down of the hole, how to play it, and other relevant information.

I'll start with an overall aerial followed by the first hole in a second post. Then Phil can lead the conversation.




Here is the entire black course:

[Charlie Goerges]

And here is Hole 1 - 430 yards par 4 (all the holes will be to scale with each other and rotated in the fashion shown below):

[Phil_the_Author]

This is a hole where concentration is required from the opening tee shot. one of the subtle features of the Black is how the tee boxes have a tendency to point toward areas of trouble rather than down the center of the fairway. You can see this in the aerial of hole #1 as it points directly at the corner trees and right side fairway/rough line. This is one of the reasons that so many average players end up in the right rough.

The fairway bend is long and slow and this to creates problems for those who think that just blowing a driv over the trees is a smart play... it really isn't. Carefully look at how the hole is shaped and one can see that clearing the trees brings an ever-enlarging area of rough into play along the right side. Those drives which are fortunate enough to make it to the fairway then face a poor angle into the gren for the second shot as the right side bunker envelops nearly a third of the entracnce into the green. If the hole is cut anywhere right, then not only is the bunker even more into play but the slope of the green cants away to front and back left and away from the right side making all shots in from the right side a gamble at getting close to a right-side hole.

Looking from behind the green, as tilly always recommended, the green actually point directly at the far left corner of the fairway turn, and it is here that the most successful drives are placed. The entire gren is open and this includes the more difficult right side hole locations. In addition, there is even a ground option from here if the drive is carried into the rough as the grass in front of the green is cut shorter that fairway height to where the front putting surface extends out and slightly beyond the front of the bunkers.

Beware on all front hole locations... the front quarter of the green has a decided false front cant to it. In 2002 a number of shots were spun back off this and back out into the fairway.

This is one of the "flat" putting surfaces that has a LOT more break in the putts than you think. And oh yes, don't go long into the deep rough that the back side of the green drops to...

 

[Phil McDade]

Terrific thread, and thanks in advance to Charlie and Philip in advance.

May we ask questions? Two to start:

Is there a prevailing wind with this hole (often a necessary factor to take into account on doglegs)?

Does the road backing the green ever come into play? Do they limit spectators and keep it mown short to encourage balls running through the green and into the traffic? Is the road OB?

Thanks again -- this brings back memories of the great Oakmont thread a few years ago.

[Phil_the_Author]

Phil,

The road behind the green almost never comes into play and it is NOT out-of-bounds. There is a quick rise from behind the green that would prevent balls from going up the slope, and this is an area of 20+ feet of very tough rough. The only way to hit the road is on the fly...

There really isn't any prevailing wind. There can be one at times that comes into your face on the tee and so is across the fairway for the second shot, but this is not the general case. Remember too, the hole is down int the center of the valley of the lower complex of holes that run from #1 red to #18 green with 15-17 of the Black off in he distance. The wind is felt higher up than down low where the second shots are played.

[Charlie Goerges]

Here is Hole 2 - 389 yards par 4:

[Sean Leary]

Interesting how the first few holes have very little bunkering, then BOOM, bunkers galore!!!!

[Phil_the_Author]

Sean,

9 (before the newly added one), 15 & 16 also have no fairway bunkering.

[Phil_the_Author]

Tilly believed that a golf hole was best understood by examining it from behind the green and looking back. One's view of how to play this hole dramatically changes when one does precisely that.

From the tee, which once again points diectly at the right side rough, the left side and center landing areas are hidden. Add to that the benign nature of the look of the right side of the fairway and one gets fooled into thinking that is the play... it isn't. Even from the fairway the right sid blocks out access to half of the green. The further right, and if one is in the rough they are simply dead, the more the tree line along the upper ridge impacts any shot to the right side of the green.

It is only from looking behind the green, as in Joe Bausch's wonderful photos on the other thread, that one realizes that the play is vastly more uphill than one thinks and plays for. That is why the three bunkers on the front right side of the green catch so many apparently well-hit shots. This is another green that is difficult to over-club and hit over, but beware, if you do, the rough is very heavy.

The front lef tbunker is not that difficult to get out of but is difficult to get a shot close to the hole regardless of where it is located. The shot can be nearly blind and the angle of the hill increases the further up the sand one lay.

This green is probably the flattest of all the greens on the course, but there is more than enough surprising movement in them in their outer portions, especially on the right hand side.
 

[Charlie Goerges]

Joe B, I'm taking the liberty of posting your images of number 2.

All, anyone willing to share images that will help with the tour, please feel free to post them. Perhaps we can coordinate so that they all get posted at roughly the same time as Phil's commentary.

Some pics of No 2 to maybe help those who have not visited Bethpage Black:

Phil is correct about needing to be left on this hole.  It is tempting to think you can hit a drive or fw wood and turn it bit off the banking fairway:



But if you don't turn your tee shot and hit up in the rough, it is typically thick enough to not come down.  And you end up with a view like this for your 2nd shot and, well, you can kiss birdie goodbye and just hope for an up and down par:



And this pic from the middle of the fairway pretty far back from the green somewhat shows how uphill the hole is at the end:

[Matt_Ward]

Phil McDade:

The 1st hole generally plays downwind -- south / southwest wind pattern predominates during most summer days.

The 1st is really a hole with two distinct tales. For the average player just getting around the corner to see the green is no e-z feat. You need to keep your drive way left in order to see it -- then the 2nd becomes even longer.

However ...

for the big guns next week -- the issue is really about hitting a 3-metal off the tee -- Tiger did that this past Monday when he played his practice round there. After landing in the fairway -- it's a modest mid-to-short iron to the green. Again, keep in mind this dog-leg hole is more vexing to the weaker player than the better one.

The main strong point for the 1st is the vexing nature of the green -- very small and quite contoured.

[Charlie Goerges]

Here is Hole 3 - 232 yards par 3:







P.S. I'll be posting number 4 at around 8pm CST. It would be great if we could have some ground-level photos shortly after if at all possible.

[Joe Bausch]

Here are a few from the under-appreciated par 3 3rd:

[Charlie Goerges]

Excellent Joe! The thread will be much better for having the ground level photos.

[Steve Kupfer]

I'll never get tired of looking at this hole. Site of my first and only ace in August 2002. According to the pro shop that day, it was the first hole in one on the Black since Scott Hoch's at 17 in the final round of the Open.

[Phil_the_Author]

The third hole is a very under-rated par three. Obviously accuracy with the tee shot is of utmost importance, but more than distance it is side-to-side that one can get hurt on this hole. For example, with a middle right hole location, a shot that lands 10' right of the hole is in danger of bouncing hard and going over and downhill into the rough, or worse, the trees.

One of the aspects that will be brought out with a high green speed is the suprising amount of break that is in this green. There is actually a very small ridge that runs along the centerline of the green from front to back. This gets magnified with the Open speeds and puzzled many of the players in 2002.

Here again, with various tee locations and hole locations, this can play from 190 to 235 yards. That is really an anmazing spread for a hole of this type.

The green is located on top of a promonitory that falls downhill dramatically on all three sides. because of this the wind, when it is blowing, is very challenging and difficult to read. This makes club selection particularly important and timing for hitting the shot a real challenge. The same club for a player might run into a strong head wind and fall short and in the front bunkers, whereas if it dies at the moment of impact, over the green and down the hill is definitely in play.

This is a hole that old players from the 40's to 70's would enjoy as they could attempt a low runninghook into the green. The ground game actually works when it is windy and the hole is front right.

Once again we have a green that sits well above its front guarding bunkers. These are deep and may leave some players with very long recoveries to back or right-side hole locations.

Still, the hole has one particular joy that those who play it with a first-timer looks forward to. That is the moment they hole out and the newbie turns and stops dead in his tracks and stares at that magnificent 4th hole through the opening in the trees.

This hole is a wonderful prelude to what is one of the truly great vistas in golf to follow...

[Charlie Goerges]

Hole 4 Glacier - 517 yards par 5:




Note: I'll be posting 5 tomorrow morning.

[Phil_the_Author]

What is not obvious on the ground is quite so by aerial, that the 4th hole is a classic Tillinghast "double-dogleg" par-five.

What Tilly wrote back in the 1930's is still true today:

"In contemplating the difficulties of Black, I have in mind particularly the long 4th, a par 5 of course. When this is played from the full length of the teeing-ground it should prove one of the most exacting three-shotters I know of anywhere. In locating and designing the green, which can only be gained by a most precise approach from the right, I must confess that I was a little scared myself, when i looked back and regarded the hazardous route that must be taken by a stinging second shot to get into position to attack this green..." From the article "Mankillers" in the April 1934 edition of Golf Illustrated.

What so many miss when reading this article (I have in mind one Ron Whitten) is that Tilly is stating in March of 1934 at the very time that the Black was being designed and laid out on the ground, that HE WAS THE PERSON WHO DID IT!) That is the last time I will bring up that subject in this thread... 

Here is a hole that is a true throwback to the golden age in that it was only lengthened a mere 25 yards with the upper tee in 2002 and it still plays EXACTLY as it was designed to.

Tilly preached that a hole is only as long as it plays and never was it more true than here.

Go ahead, KILL that drive; carry it off the side of the center mounding and watch it hurtle down the fairway maybe even eventually stopping just short of the massive glacier bunker. You're only 185 yards to the center of the green from here, but WHAT A 185 YARDS!

Your shot is completely blind no matter where you play to with the next plateau some 20 feet directly above you and the green another 10+ feet above that by the time one gets there. Anyone who thinks that they can get home in two must have stopped along the way and smelled more than the roses... First of all, the shot plays closer to 210+ yards from that very end of the fairway. Further back and woods are being hit instead of long irons. They will all come into the green at a low angle accentuated by the height of the green over where you are hitting from. It is nearly impossible to hold a shot into this green that slopes severely away from the player, dropping nearly three feet in height from the front to the back.

For those that think the collection area in back of the green will simply allow for a good recovery to guarantee birdie, think again. It is narrow and very deep. All shots are into the grain and up the hill and then up the green.

By the way, Tiger didn't reach it in two that Sunday and walked away with a par save...

The correct play is to the far right of the green where the fairway runs out. In fact, the longer one plays it and is in the fairway the better as it allows for a pitch shot that will come into the hole at an angle up the hill. This will help in controling the distance. Careful though, very much like the 11th hole, this green is like a pool table put on its side and unless one ends up directly beneath the hole they will find more break than they may be able to handle. 3-4 foot breaks were common place in 2002.

It is a magnificent hole and is listed by many as being possibly his greatest par-5...

[Jim Nugent]

Philip, can you indicate distances and likely clubs for approach shots?  You did more of that the last two holes, but I don't recall seeing it for the first two.

Great commentary and photos. 

[Mike Sweeney]

It is a magnificent hole and is listed by many as being possibly his greatest par-5...

Philip,

While I disagree with Matt that "the course starts on #4", it is on #4 that you get the true scale and size of The Black for the first time:

[Niall C]

That last photograph begs the question, are there no rakes on the Black course ?

Great looking course.

Niall

[Charlie Goerges]

Here are Joe Bs images of 4:

Some early morning pictures of No 4 (what a hole!):

[Matt_Ward]

Just a quick comment on the 3rd -- I see it a bit differently than Phil does. I don't see the hole as being underrated -- quite the contrary I find it to be one of the least unique holes at BB.

Rees Jones simply added distance to the hole in '02 -- pushing it to roughly 210 yards -- the USGA decided to go even further back to 230 yards and that is what lies at my issue with the continual desire to bing even more MUSCLE to a course that is ripping in muscle already.

The 3rd would have played even better at shorter distances and by pushing the extreme left side of the green even further to the corner -- thereby any pulled shots would have been in Elvis land -- as in deadsville. Unfortunately, the rough behind the green has been allowed to serve as a backstop -- I don't see that as being a plus. Playing the 3rd at a shorter distance would have been more than fine -- and with that the overall width of the green could have been kept narrower in certain spots.

The 3rd is the least compelling par-3 at Bethpage in my mind -- although the 14th is quite close in that regard. Usually at a Tillie layout the sum total of the par-3 holes is always first rate -- at BB you have a mixed bag.

The 3rd generally plays into the prevailing south / southwest wind so more club will be needed -- but it's simply a longish par-3 and for those who are Tillie fans -- the hole pales in comparison to his other superb long par-3 holes lsuch as the two at WF/W -- the 3rd and 13th there.

Like I said before -- the first three are mere appetizers until you reach the 4th tee box. Then the game is on ...

[Charlie Goerges]

Hole 5 - 478 yards par 4:






Paging Joe B., Mike S. or anyone w/shots of 5!

[Joe Bausch]

Some pics of what I think is one of the hardest par 4's I've ever played (No 5):

Here is the view from the back tee:



And from in front of the forward box the large right bunker is more visible, the ideal drive line being farther right but that requires a longer carry over the bunker.



A view back to the tees with the 4th green partially in view to the left:



A drive in the left part of the FW or left rough leaves a very difficult approach shot that must be aerial and with trees possible in play:



The view from the middle of the FW about 150 yards out:



From just short of the green:



Looking back down the FW from just short of the green:



A view of another not very contoured green: