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Charlie Goerges

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Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« on: June 08, 2009, 01:42:34 PM »
I ran across an article (the PDF is attached to the bottom of the post, click gi124q.pdf at bottom to open or save it) from Golf Illustrated where Tilly defends this hole:






What do you make of this? Would you defend this hole "if it demands thoughtful and accurate play"? Or is this kind of hole indefensible?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 02:35:38 PM by Charlie Goerges »
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Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Rich Goodale

Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 01:43:47 PM »
How high are the trees?
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Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 01:45:40 PM »
Quote from: Rich Goodale on June 08, 2009, 01:43:47 PM
How high are the trees?


High enough so as to be impenetrable.
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Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Bill_McBride

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Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 01:54:30 PM »
I'm sure all that middle could be impenetrable forest 100' tall, but has anyone ever seen an OB where it is PROHIBITED, VERBOTEN, ILLEGAL to hit a tee shot in that direction?

Otherwise every third yahoo is going to try to hit a 150 yard SW over those trees!
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Rich Goodale

Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 02:11:49 PM »
You got it, Ace.  This Yahoo would just love to see how "impenetrable" that forest would be when facing my 64 degree lob wedge!
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 02:21:07 PM »
The hole is defensible for real estate poor clubs. Who cares is someone tries to hit a shot over the trees. No one cares if someone tries to drive a drivable par 4.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill_McBride

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Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 02:27:50 PM »
Garland, tell that to the group ahead when Rihc starts raining those lob wedges down on them!
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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 02:29:55 PM »
I trust the left-hand fairway bunker is solely to brake a ball headed out of bounds?  Otherwise the player who drives there is hosed anyway.  I do like the fact that the longer one drives the ball the better angle he leaves to approach the green down its primary axis with no hazard to carry.   The bunkers hard against the right side of the green also defend against the player who plays a wedge from the tee to the left edge of the fairway, leaving enough room to clear the trees with a second wedge at a right angle.  

I envision this hole yielding a lot of bad scores given the strong temptation from the tee.    While not an advocate of this hole, it perhaps has more architectural merit than 75% of the holes ever built.

Bogey
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 02:31:39 PM »
There are devices to prevent that in common use. The most recent I have seen is a wired stop light system on the 17th at Hunter Ranch.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike_Cirba

Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 03:12:47 PM »
I actually played a hole something like this at a public course in southern NJ called Beckett.

It was a Dick Kidder design, but since that time, most players there have simply referred to him by his first name....
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Anthony Gray

Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 03:16:23 PM »


  Is this a real hole?

  Anthony

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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 04:04:13 PM »
Quote from: Anthony Gray on June 08, 2009, 03:16:23 PM


  Is this a real hole?

  Anthony



NO!

If it were, a close look at the picture would show the trees are hard against the tee on the right, and Rihc would have an impossible shot to get his lob wedge to penetrate to the green.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Rich Goodale

Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 04:08:26 PM »
garland

I can duck hook my lob wedge just like a ringin' a bell.......
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Ross Tuddenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 04:11:47 PM »
Imagine if the green was actually hundreds of feet below and the fairway was very mentally downhill from about the end of the arrow coming out of the 2.  you might have two options from the tee. 1. try and hit it far enough with a fade to get to the start of the sever down hill slope on the fairway.  Then your ball will roll doen to the green. OR 2. just smack a 300 yard lob wedge to the green.

Ok so that was a bit of a joke but might be fun once?

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Charlie Goerges

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Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2009, 04:13:01 PM »
Feel free to read Tilly's full explanation by click the attachment at the bottom of the first post.
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Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Lester George

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Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2009, 04:51:24 PM »


Even if he defends it, I doubt he ever could/would/did build it.  If it was any good there would be more examples of it.  Some things work on paper but not on the ground.

Don't know anything about Dick Kidder, but if he made a living as an architect, holes like this might have prevented him from being a good one.

Lester
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2009, 04:51:28 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on June 08, 2009, 04:04:13 PM
Quote from: Anthony Gray on June 08, 2009, 03:16:23 PM


  Is this a real hole?

  Anthony



NO!


I guess I should clarify. The hole pictured is a hypothetical by Tilly. However, my home course has a similar hole. The green can be seen from the tee through the stand of Doug firs separating them. No one could hit a high shot over them. However, I have seen a 5 handicapper thread a hybrid through the tree trunks to the back fringe in a scramble. The first putt was calmly rolled into the hole by the lady in our foursome.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2009, 08:51:10 PM »
With all the holes he did design, I think there is a reason he never needed to build this one... He could always come up with a better design so he didn't have to.
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Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2009, 09:48:04 PM »
I've got a REALLY HIGH, REALLY LOOPING slice that creeps into my bag every 36 holes or so when I revert back to my baseball playing days.  I think when a REALLY bad shot is the best option for a hole, well, maybe it's not as defendable anymore.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 12:27:51 AM »
There was a hole something like that (not that severe, but I believe the dogleg was more than 90 degrees) on a course I played near my uncle's home in Alton, Illinois, when I was about 13.  It was memorable, but not a good hole.

The only dogleg that sharp I've seen on a plan was on a par-five hole for Ralph Barton's third nine at Hanover CC at Dartmouth ... it was a long three-shotter through the trees with a very sharp dogleg at the end of the second shot.  It did not survive the test of time, and the trees were growing over it when I walked the property.
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Mike_Clayton

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Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 01:13:49 AM »
In answer tp Bill McBride's question, I have heard about, but not seen, a hole here in Australia where the 'air space' is OOB
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Mark_F

Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 02:42:08 AM »
Quote from: Mike_Clayton on June 09, 2009, 01:13:49 AM
In answer tp Bill McBride's question, I have heard about, but not seen, a hole here in Australia where the 'air space' is OOB

8th at Ringwood Mike?

Classic hole of Australian golf.
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2009, 03:25:15 AM »
I think this concept could work IF THE TREES WERE ELIMINATED!  Its funky, but could be a good solution to using an awkward space.  However, the green would have to be in view to tempt and of course the penalty of coming up short should likely result in a 5 or worse. 

Ciao
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Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2009, 07:15:01 AM »
Why dont we take the hole one step father and clear a path through super dense forest so that there is a 4yrd wide corridor, endorsing the hard draw 60^ as the only way to "drive" the par 4!
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RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast and the "Boomerang"
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2009, 11:46:03 AM »
There is or maybe was ( haven't been there in a long while) a public course in West MI with a hole like this. Even with the tall trees there were many people that would try to hit over the trees. Maybe I can Google map it...
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