[Phil_the_Author]

Recently I was asked to name the 5 best holes that Tilly ever did.

Believe it or not, but I am stumped! How can one answer that from within his entire body of work?

So I thought I'd ask for some suggestions and maybe put together a list of 5 of his best one-shotter's, two-shotter's and three-shotter's...

[Tony_Muldoon]

Philip sorry to threadjack but can you shed some light on this bizarre item from Shacks website?



"Seems someone is hoping to fuel the dispute between Ron Whitten and the Tillinghast Association over the proper design credit for Bethpage-Black.
I give to you, via a reader, the Joe Burbeck Association and their lovely (limited of course) print that so encapsulates the soulful Bethpage architecture.
In time for the upcoming 2009 United States Open, the newly formed Joesph Burbeck Association is having a one-time offering of a fine "artistic" print in honor of Mr. Burbeck's finest original work-The New York State's, Bethpage Park's Black Course.

This seragraphic print will be a collectors item that anyone would be proud to display above their library's fireplace mantle or living room wall. It depicts the tough-as-nails 2nd shot from the fairway of the 'Black's" most respected 15th hole which will no doubt highlight Mr. Burbeck's intentions of making the 'Black' the toughest test in Golf for the common man, if not the finest Golfers ever to touch the verdant green of this Long Island gem!

Purchasing the print also helps the Association, because a small but generous portion of your donation for this print goes to the JBA for the betterment of all of the Bethpage Courses, as well as helping further JBA efforts to save other Burbeck-designed courses which have been wrongly attributed to other more well-known designer-architects. Be part of the team today!

Prices for the prints are as follows:

Print only, on fine acid-free parchment: $29.00
Print, on fine acid-free parchment, framed in dark red Bethpage Fir (purchased at 99¢ Only Stores®): $65.00
Print, on fine acid-free parchment, framed in dark red Bethpage Fir (purchased at 99¢ Only Stores®) Numbered and artificially-signed by Bethpage Park Consultant, A.W. Tillinghast (limit: only 200 special editions available): $95.00

With all regards,
The Joe Burbeck Association
Bethpage Park, Long Island, New York
 And what a lovely print it is...
 
 Monday, June 1, 2009 at 09:53 PM  23 Comments | in  2009 U.S. Open
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Just noticed, there are 23 comments on the site (currently page 2) that continue with the 'playful' nature of the announcment.  Has it been spotted anywhere else or is Shac in on the Joke?  If so how many former contributors to this site did it take to photoshop that print?




And yes I would like to hear about  some of Tilly's best holes.  Thanks Tony

[Jim Franklin]

#6 at Five Farms as his best Par 5.

[Jed Peters]

#6 at Five Farms as his best Par 5.

Better than 9 at SFGC? Wow.

[Bill Brightly]

Recently I was asked to name the 5 best holes that Tilly ever did.

Believe it or not, but I am stumped! How can one answer that from within his entire body of work?

So I thought I'd ask for some suggestions and maybe put together a list of 5 of his best one-shotter's, two-shotter's and three-shotter's...

I'll throw out Ridgewood's 5 West as his best par 4:

[Joel_Stewart]

The 10th at Winged Foot and 13th at San Francisco as 3 pars.

The 10th and 12th at San Francisco for 4 pars but I'm told the green on #12 is not original.

[Ed Oden]

#6 at Five Farms as his best Par 5.

Jim, I loved #6.  That being said, I actually thought #14 was its equal if not the better hole.

Ed

[Bill Brightly]

I don't know about top 5 overall, but I think the first at Mountain Ridge is the prettiest opening hole I have played:

[Steve Lapper]

While I don't quite have the time to put my list together (and I will later), Mountain Ridge is A DONALD ROSS!

[Lester George]

More than a handful of his original holes at Roanoke Country Club could make your list.

Lester

[Bill Brightly]

While I don't quite have the time to put my list together (and I will later), Mountain Ridge is A DONALD ROSS!

OK, Lester, I stand corrected!

I always forget who did Mountain Ridge...so before posting I referred to The Golf Course by Cornish and Whitten. Looks like they got it wrong as well!

[Lester George]

Bill,

I'm not sure I corrected you.

Lester

[Bill Brightly]

Bill,

I'm not sure I corrected you.

Lester

Yes, you did, I know it was Ross. But I'm dragging Cornish and Whitten under the bus with me...

[Matt_Ward]

Let's just say for starters -

best par-5 hole = 4th at BB -- so much strategic qualities and the '09 Open will bring that to the forefront

best mid-length par-4 = 11th at Somerset Hills. Need to position tee shot and watch where your approach finishes on a very tough green.

best long par-4 = 18th at WF/W. Just a demanding no nonsense hole that culminates a layout that requires superb thinking and top tier execution.

[Phil_the_Author]

Steve & Bill,

You are BOTH correct! Tilly designed the second nine for the OLD Mountain Ridge course in 1916. Donald Ross designed the NEW Mountain Ridge course in the 1920's.

Keep the recommendations coming!

[K. Krahenbuhl]

4th/5th @ Bethpage Black
2nd/7th @ SFGC

[Jaeger Kovich]

Of his courses I have played....

Par 3's - Quaker Ridge #9 (Just as Jack Nicklaus), WFW # 10, and Baltusrol Upper #10

Par 4's - Quaker Ridge #11, Bethpage Red (Assuming its his) #18, Bethpage Black #5, Shackmaxon #9

Par 5's - Bethpage Black #4, Winged Foot East #4

[Steve Lapper]

Phil,

   I would offer (as an appetizer) the following and just the ones that I personally know so well:

Short 3's: #12 Somerset Hills, #9 Quaker Ridge, #7 WFW or #3 WFE
Mid 3's: #10 WFW, Duel Hole (#7?) SFGC, #17 BB
Long 3's: #6 WFE, #13 WFW, #11 Fenway

Short 4's: #15 Fenway, #6 Ridgewood Centre #6 WFW, #10 Alpine
Mid 4's: #14 Somerset Hills, #11 QR, #11 Somerset Hills, Plenty on BCC Five Farms & Baltusrol Upper & SFGC(Pardon me for memory loss of individual holes)
Long 4's: #5 BB, #6 QR, #18 WFW, #8 WFW, #7 QR, #15 BB,#1 WFW, #9(?) BCC, #2 Fenway,#18 Balty Lower..Plenty on Ridgewood & Balty Upper

Short 5's: #9 WFW, #1 QR
Bigger 5's: #7 Pine Valley (THIS WAS A TILLY BY ALL RIGHTS AND MEASURES),#4 BB, #3 Fenway, #17 Balty Lower

Will try to come back to all the others I've played over the years, but having grown up in Westchester, the one's I've mentioned really resonate as among his best(even compared with his work in my present home state of NJ)

[Mike Policano]

From Ridgewood, I would propose the following for your consideration.

Par 4's   5 West, 6 Center (Nickel & Dime) and 7 East

Par 5's    8 West, 3 East

Cheers, Mike

[BCyrgalis]

Phil,

You'd probably know better than anyone here, but if it WAS Tilly, No. 13 of Bethpage Yellow is one of, if not the, best par-4 on the whole property (maybe only trumped by Black Nos. 5 & 15).  I believe there's some consensus that it was one of the holes that Tull didn't touch when he came in a built the Yellow, it being part of Tilly's original Blue design (or Brubeck's - another time, another thread).  Either way, those three - Yellow No. 13, Black Nos. 5, 15 - are my votes for best par-4's.

And, just to restate the obvious, No. 4 on the Black for the par-5 list and No. 10 Winged Foot West for the par-3 list.  

[Steve Lapper]

From Ridgewood, I would propose the following for your consideration.

Par 4's   5 West, 6 Center (Nickel & Dime) and 7 East

Par 5's    8 West, 3 East

Cheers, Mike

Homer!

(Afraid to show your face these days? )

[Chip Gaskins]

SFGC #3 is no slouch....

[mark chalfant]

Par  fours

Brook  Hollow   #9
Metropolis     #12
Rockaway  Hunt #7
Quaker Ridge  #17
SFGC  #3

[Patrick_Mucci]

Philip,

I don't know which holes are his best holes since he created so many quality holes.

I also think you have to analyze a hole in the context of the topography and sequence in the routing.

I think AWT's par 5's are generally a notch above everyone else's.

He seemed to enjoy great success in crafting superior par 5's.

When you examine his body of work on par 5's you can't help but be impressed.

I can't recall seeing a bad one and I can't recall seeing a mediocre one, but I'll reflect on that.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Mark - Gil Hanse just changed the entire green complex at #17.... I always loved that hole, but i think it is even better now. I am concerned that the new lip on the front right greenside bunker may be to high and cause some problems with washouts.... there are some pretty great putts on the new green though, you can play some l-r or r-l depending on speed!

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