[Jonathan Cummings]

....ain't Chambers Bay anymore.  A group of us including a top regional amateur just played Wine Valley.  We all agreed, it's even better than CB.

JC

[Carl Johnson]

Jonathan -- The website photos make it look wonderful.  What's the likelihood the course will make it financially?  I also notice they're selling home sites.  What's that going to do to the rustic, open look of the place?

[Jonathan Cummings]

Carl - can't answer your questions.  We played behind Dick Youngscap's college roommate and charter member at Sand Hills.  We talked to him at length after the round.  We all agreed that Wine Valley is likely the country's best compliments to Sand Hills.

JC

[Craig Sweet]

"We talked to him at length after the round.  We all agreed that Wine Valley is likely the country's best compliments to Sand Hills."

They haven't played Rock Creek yet then....

[Jonathan Cummings]

We've all played Rock Creek.  On a Doak scale I would probably give Rock Creek an only slighter higher rating than Wine Valley.  Wine Valley is that good.  JC

[Michael Dugger]

Jonathan -- The website photos make it look wonderful.  What's the likelihood the course will make it financially?  I also notice they're selling home sites.  What's that going to do to the rustic, open look of the place?

I think the course will make it financially for a couple of reasons.

A. They built sensibly, no 1 mil. fee to the architect (sorry, Dan!) No waterfalls  No huge palacial clubhouse
B. There is like ZERO golf worth a dang in the region.  It's THE course to play at if you are within a 75 mile radius
C. They've embraced the local community, and it's local communities that keep a golf course afloat during a recession
D. And lastly, it's a great course.  Great courses just find a way to survive, unless they are on an Indian Res. in the middle of nowhere.

[Mike Wagner]

Jonathan,

Better than Chambers is an EXTREMELY strong statement IMO.  Is it as versatile in it's set up for challenge/options?

[Jason McNamara]

More course pics here:
http://winevalleygolfclub.com/golf-gallery

How much will the houses intrude?

[Sean Leary]

Haven't been out there yet, but would Wild Horse be the best overall comparison?

JC, which top Am did you play with?

[Garland Bayley]

...
JC, which top Am did you play with?

It wasn't me!

[Pete_Pittock]

Garland,
It was probably Jordan
Jonathan,
      IMO it likely will be in the top five, maybe top three based on my limited excursions. I'd like to wait until Cos or Sean has gone east to play there and at Palouse Ridge. And how was Crosswater?
       
Re houses: I would take the over on the over/under on when (if) the houses intrude. Not only do you have to overcome the overbuilding of houses, but also the course is about five miles away from the edge of the urban/suburban buildup.

[Jordan Wall]

Pete,

Palouse Ridge isn't great.  It's fun, challenging, and has some good holes but I much prefer Gold Mountain.

Can't wait to see Wine Valley.

[Troy Alderson]

Jonathan -- The website photos make it look wonderful.  What's the likelihood the course will make it financially?  I also notice they're selling home sites.  What's that going to do to the rustic, open look of the place?

I think the course will make it financially for a couple of reasons.

A. They built sensibly, no 1 mil. fee to the architect (sorry, Dan!) No waterfalls  No huge palacial clubhouse
B. There is like ZERO golf worth a dang in the region.  It's THE course to play at if you are within a 75 mile radius
C. They've embraced the local community, and it's local communities that keep a golf course afloat during a recession
D. And lastly, it's a great course.  Great courses just find a way to survive, unless they are on an Indian Res. in the middle of nowhere.

Which Indian Reservation golf course(s) in the middle of nowhere are you referring to?  Mine was Kah-Nee-Ta Resort in Oregon.

Troy

[Craig Van Egmond]

Troy,

     Apache Stronghold was the first course that popped into my mind. 

[Bill_McBride]

Love that cut thick edge to the bunkers.  It's very unique, at least in my experience.  My favorite are the stacked sod, revetted bunkers of Muirfield or Hoylake, but these are exceptional in their rustic look.   It's all very natural looking. 

Next summer will be my first opportunity.  Slag, what's it like out there in July or August?  Hot but dry?

[Matt_Ward]

Jonathan:

I respect your take -- as an FYI, I have not played Chambers Bay thus far -- but I have walked Wine Valley -- was there in August of last year and it was just beginning to take form / shape.

Can you provide a bit more details on how you arrived at your conclusion ?

Is the margin between the two VERY close or are you saying that Wine Valley would win convincingly ?

[Richard Choi]

Looks like the gauntlet has been thrown.

I may try to drive out there this month or next. I have a hard time believing that it is superior to Chambers Bay, but it would make me very happy as general quality of courses in Washington State leave a lot to be desired.

We shall see...

[Michael Dugger]

CB affords a more spectacular setting than WV

but I think WV has a slightly better collection of golf holes. 

I just don't like the 8th and subsequent drop shot 9th at CB, it's really a flaw in the routing, IMHO. 

But I still give the nod to CB....

[Kalen Braley]

Looking forward to playing it in a couple of months...the pics look awesome and the experience will likely be the best before the homes eventually go in.

[Patrick Kiser]

...  What's that going to do to the rustic, open look of the place?

The lay of the land being as it is there ... I don't see how they can possibly "camouflage" them.  Better go before it's too late.

From the photos alone it certainly looks impressive.  WA is fast becoming a destination...

Thanks for sharing.


P.S.  Rock Creek in DC?

[Jonathan Cummings]

Just played Tetherow today.  I'll add fuel to the fire and say that Wine Valley is better than Chambers Bay AND Tetherow!  All three are excellent courses but WV is a bigger second, third, etc draw.  Please all go see it and correct my misconceptions!  JC

[Garland Bayley]

Just played Tetherow today.  I'll add fuel to the fire and say that Wine Valley is better than Chambers Bay AND Tetherow!  All three are excellent courses but WV is a bigger second, third, etc draw.  Please all go see it and correct my misconceptions!  JC

Wine Valley is better than Tetherow? So what? Lots of courses better than Tetherow. The Links of ND is better than Tetherow. So saying Wine Valley is better than Tetherow is not raising Wine Valley to any high level.

[Rob Rigg]

Just got back from Tetherow - they toned down a few holes quite a bit - more details to follow.

WV does look impressive - I am trying to sneak out there at some point but it may not be until next spring.

CB is a great layout so with the arrival of WV it is getting competitive in WA.

Heard that Kidd is putting a new course in at a resort in Brewster (?), WA - walking only - that could be another good one.

[Garland Bayley]

Just got back from Tetherow - they toned down a few holes quite a bit - more details to follow.

WV does look impressive - I am trying to sneak out there at some point but it may not be until next spring.

Someone is skipping a chance to go to Wine Valley in order to go to Bandon. Someone needs to get his priorities right. 

CB is a great layout so with the arrival of WV it is getting competitive in WA.

Heard that Kidd is putting a new course in at a resort in Brewster (?), WA - walking only - that could be another good one.

After Tetherow, he must have realized he had some penance to do. 

[Pete_Pittock]

Robb,
That would be the Gamble Golf Resort in Brewster, WA by Orrin Vincent of OB Sports. Do not know the current status of the project other than years ago someone levelled big sand dunes. Brewster is in north central Washington on the Columbia River.l

http://www2.cybergolf.com/sites/courses/layout12.asp?id=679&page=38092

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