The Banks course at Forsgate

[Jay Flemma]

I'm playing in a tournament there in a month.  I saw the green with the thumbprint...unbelievable!

Who's played it and what can I look forward to when I go?

Ran, we have to get you out there so you can write it up!

[PThomas]

the deepest bunkers of any course i've played!

[astavrides]

great course.  lots of stuff on about it on this board (much of it by matt ward saying the same thing over and over, but still).  try a search.

[David Panzarasa]

You will surely get a response from Mr. Ward on this one. But the Banks course is awsome. Some of the best approach shots I have seen in the area. Great greens, bunkers, intimidating yet can score very well if you stay out of the greenside bunkers.

[Jay Flemma]

favorite holes are?

on the biarritz, is the swale in the green or in front?

[Pat Burke]

Growing up in Jersey, had the chance to play tons of tournament rounds at Forsgate.
Always thought the place was 'cool" even before I realized why it was!
Lots of great approach shots, and you will have putts that can boggle the mind!
Always reminded of the line "it's a pretty deep bunker, pretty sure you can develop film in there"
Fits many of the bunkers

[Bill Brightly]

Jay,

Bet you won't come within 3 shots of your average score this year.

[Matt_Ward]

astavrides said,  "... great course.  lots of stuff on about it on this board (much of it by matt ward saying the same thing over and over, but still).  try a search."

Yes, I have said plenty on it -- no different than people who say plenty about Sand Hills, or Merion or Ballyneal, etc, etc.

The Banks Course is one of Jersey's top ten courses in my mind.

Just so many fun and special holes.

Jay -- the cumulative nature of the four (4) par-3 holes there is only exceeded by the quartet you find at PV. They are all outstanding -- especially the Eden 3rd hole there.

The back-to-back par-5's that conclude the outward half are also first rate.

The Banks Course demonstrates how out of touch that major pubs are when rating courses because this layout has all the qualities that so many people wax on about on this site.

[Jay Flemma]

Well that's nice matty...tell me more...will I see you there on the 30th of july?

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Jay,

  I played Forsgate many times in 2001, when I worked there.  Please understand, I was not "into architecture" the way I am now, so I wasn't fully cognizant of what kind of course I was playing-but, I just remember it looked different than, say, Rutgers, where I played most of my college rounds.  I knew I liked it better than Jasna Polana, where I worked the previous two years. 
I'll take you through what I remember. Also as I understand, the owners have made changes, for the better if the guys here are telling the truth, and I haven't played the Banks Course since Fall '01. 

  I do recall housing seemed to be a little too close to #2,4,5 on the left. 
3 is a great Eden--I don't know how deep the valley is between the green and tee, nor how deep the bunkers are.  I do recall it felt like there was a pretty deep drop between the tee and green.  Suffice to say, the bunkers are much deeper than other Edens I have played (Creek, Knoll West, etc). 
4 is a driveable par 4 with Hog's Back green. 
5 is a Punchbowl green. 
6 was a shortish hole I enjoyed-I think it was my first birdie.  I learned later it was a Knoll green complex. 
7 is a downhill reverse redan.  (Again, at the time...)
8 and 9 are par fives.  They're very long, both gradual uphill holes, I think one has a Double Plateau green.  I may be wrong. (of course, I didn't know this at the time)
12 is the Short. 
I don't recall much of 13-16, 17 is the Biarritz (again, at the time, I knew it was a long hole, but I didn't know what it was), and 18 was a tough, long par 4 with deep bunkers. 

I'd love to go back and play it now, that I can understand and appreciate the architectural features. 

[astavrides]

favorite holes are?

on the biarritz, is the swale in the green or in front?

Stephen Kay restored it very well.  The swale is now back in the green.

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

I'll be there as well for the 30th event.

The thing about The Banks Course is that the ownership understands what they have and has done a superb job in bringing back to life so many of the compelling features that were allowed to slide into non-usage.

The greens are pure Banks and they require a keen approach play in so many instances.

I'm not a fan of the first two holes -- they are merely pedestrian intro acts for what starts at the Eden par-3 3rd hole. The split spine that separates one section of the green from the other is delicious stuff indeed.

The next three holes are fairly challenging but for different reasons. The downhill short par-4 4th appears to be a relatively e-z birdie hole. Provided you hit the right side of the fairway and leave yourself a dead-on look for your pitch to a relatively small green. The 5th used to be touted by Digest as having the largest green complex for its time. Blind approaches are routine on this hole -- especially when tucked to the far left side. Doug gave a fine description of the Knoll hole at the 6th. The reverse Redan par-3 7th is a stellar hole. Especially when the pin is cut to the far left side.

I've mentioned the back-to-back par-5 holes that close the outward nine. The par-5 8th would make any short listing of great golf holes in the Garden State and that's no small feat given the depth of courses in NJ.

The 10th hole is beautifully crafted for a mid-length par-4. The hole that follows is a bit of a letdown -- at the 12th you encounter the "short" par-3 with is elegant horseshoe designed green -- when the pin is placed over the back rim of the horseshoe it takes a precise play to land and stop there. The final trio of holes at The Banks Course bring you home in grand fashion. The par-4 16th has one of the top greens at the layout -- triple section areas are provided for a range of pin locations on this mid-length par-4.

The refashioned par-3 17th is a Biaritz hole and kudos to architect Stephen Kay for doing such a fine job in bringing the hole back to life. The closing 18th has been lengthened to deal with technology and when you play the hole into the general south / southwest wind it takes a big drive to get near the top of the hill. The green is also first rate stuff as it's elevated from the fairway and it's neatly tucked behind a fronting bunker that will swallow any half-hearted hit to the green.

Like I said before -- when you add up the sheer depth of courses in NJ -- few people really talk about what's been done recently at The Banks Course. Unfortunately, exit 8A off the NJ Tpke -- while convenient to Phila and NYC -- proviides just enough isolation which lends itslef to invisibility. Anyone venturing up the NJ Tpke should make it a point o play there. You will not be disappointed.

[Jay Flemma]

Jay,

  I played Forsgate many times in 2001, when I worked there.  Please understand, I was not "into architecture" the way I am now, so I wasn't fully cognizant of what kind of course I was playing-but, I just remember it looked different than, say, Rutgers, where I played most of my college rounds.  I knew I liked it better than Jasna Polana, where I worked the previous two years. 
I'll take you through what I remember. Also as I understand, the owners have made changes, for the better if the guys here are telling the truth, and I haven't played the Banks Course since Fall '01. 

  I do recall housing seemed to be a little too close to #2,4,5 on the left. 
3 is a great Eden--I don't know how deep the valley is between the green and tee, nor how deep the bunkers are.  I do recall it felt like there was a pretty deep drop between the tee and green.  Suffice to say, the bunkers are much deeper than other Edens I have played (Creek, Knoll West, etc). 
4 is a driveable par 4 with Hog's Back green. 
5 is a Punchbowl green. 
6 was a shortish hole I enjoyed-I think it was my first birdie.  I learned later it was a Knoll green complex. 
7 is a downhill reverse redan.  (Again, at the time...)
8 and 9 are par fives.  They're very long, both gradual uphill holes, I think one has a Double Plateau green.  I may be wrong. (of course, I didn't know this at the time)
12 is the Short. 
I don't recall much of 13-16, 17 is the Biarritz (again, at the time, I knew it was a long hole, but I didn't know what it was), and 18 was a tough, long par 4 with deep bunkers. 

I'd love to go back and play it now, that I can understand and appreciate the architectural features. 

Doug, great stuff!  Thanks for the break down.

matty, lets play together.  what are the first two holes?

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

The first two hole are decent mid-length par-4 holes -- it's just that the better elements of the design really intensify with the par-3 3rd.

The 1st green does give you a real appreciation of what Banks did with bunkers at greensites.

[archie_struthers]

 

I've always loved Forsgate since we played there in the 70's .....we'd take five or six foursomes of caddies / friends and play 36 on the Banks course ....great fun !

Some super bunkers and green complexes and lots of interesting tee shots!

[Matt_Ward]

Archie, et al:

The Banks Course is much improved since the time frame you mentioned.

Hard to imagine that such a quality layout is virtually ignored by all the so-called "expert" magazines.

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

Touch base with me when you can -- I can provide whatever additional info you need on Forsgate.

Look forward to July 30.

One final thing -- have you played a Banks course before ?

If so ... which one(s) and what were your impressions ?

[Jay Flemma]

Jay:

Touch base with me when you can -- I can provide whatever additional info you need on Forsgate.

Look forward to July 30.

One final thing -- have you played a Banks course before ?

If so ... which one(s) and what were your impressions ?

yes...knoll club...love it!

also played sleepy hollow and CC charleston

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

The Banks Course at Forsgate is beyond the ones you mentioned in my mind.

You can say for certain at the end of July.

By the way -- are you sure Sleepy Hollow is a Banks layout ?

[Jay Flemma]

Jay:

The Banks Course at Forsgate is beyond the ones you mentioned in my mind.

You can say for certain at the end of July.

By the way -- are you sure Sleepy Hollow is a Banks layout ?

it's a raynor, but did banks work with him on that one? or did raynor not have hoim on that project?  calling George bahto!  calling George bahto!  The phone is ringing!