Pat:
To borrow a phrase used by Ron Reagan in his famous retort to Jimmy Carter -- there you go again.
Pat, you make the same mistake AGAIN -- WF/W and BB are far from similar. The only thing they have in common is that they are both in New York State. Likely if you have played the courses you would know this. If you have played them both and still can't fathom my previous distinctions of the two courses then you are truly blind -- no disrespect but it does apply partner.
Hold the phone again -- about this so-called "New York lovefest." Because of a quirk in scheduling the series of years from '02 to '09 featured four visits to New York. No one can assail SH because the course is utterly bulletproof. So, the E-Z thing to do is beat up on WF/W and BB. You can name any course you wish in the USA and nothing is as testing and man-sized as the West Course at Winged Foot. The only layouts that can make a stronger challenge to the Tillie creation in Westchester is Oakmont and when they greens are as vexing as they can be -- the South layout at Oakland Hills. After the '09 event -- the next available US Open slot will not be until 2016. For SH to be chosen -- that will have meant a space of a dozen years. That's fine with me and likely others as well.
Pat, check out the stats on what Winged Foot / West has provided to major championship golf. The record is there to be seen -- assuming your eyes are open. Until Davis Love III shot 269 in winning the '97 PGA (a scoring feat that's get lost goven what Tiger had shot earlier at the Masters that previous April) only one other winner had broken 280 (Fuzzy in the '84 US Open). The course has some of the finest green complexes in all fo golf and most of all -- what few realize -- is that unlike other Westchester storied layouts -- the site used for the 36-holes is fairly ordinary -- the sister East Course likely has the better overall terrain.
WF/W waited 22 years for a US Open -- more than enough time to sit on the sidelines. The return in 1997 for the PGA Championship was a stroke of good fortune for both parties. WF/W is certainly a prime layout that has been a major plus to any big time event contested there. When you say "weak" Pat you are certainly out there in the deep left seats because I have never heard anyone cast the course in such a demeaning light.
BB showed the way as a true and legitimate muni course on what is possible. The folks in the area -- and those outside the area who were cognizant -- knew full well what the Black has been about -- even when it was so-so to poor shape. I have no idea on how Erin Hills will do (assuming it gets a US Open) or what will be the case with Chambers Bay. Bethpage Black - minus a terrible concluding hole (an element I have stated several times over if you have bothered to notice) is a tremendous test in being able to drive the ball well and make flawless approach shots to the demanding elevated targets throughout the round. I salute New York State for working with the USGA in bringing to life what so many people knew as a doable thing. Bethpage Black paved the way for what will likely be more and more public venues for the championship. For that reason alone (plus the others I have provided) the course deserves to be a permanent member of the short list for courses being considered.
Pat, you have this silly idea that championship golf is some sort of political convention. That the "spoils" need to be evenly divided. The idea of sports -- world championship golf for that matter -- is to use the best of the best layouts. The USGA, to its credit, has made it a point to move the event to new layouts as well as maintain the traditional courses that have served it well in the past and continue to be a competitive test for what golf is now in 2009. I've said this before -- again you must read only what you want to read -- that I am a big time fan of the mountain time zone -- and hopefully someday the US Open will return there beyond having gone through the greater Denver area. The addition of the courses one sees today in the mountain time zone is encouraging but a US Open site at or beyond the level of those being used today is just not there now.
I've already explained the reasons for the other areas of the USA not having a US Open. Time of year -- the growing season, proximity to a major metro area, a club's membership / volunteer component, etc, etc are all elements being considered. No doubt course quality heads the listing. You mentioned all the courses you thought were US Open vintage -- I provided a response to all of them.
Let's talk about Baltusrol / re: '05 PGA. To the credit of the PGA of America and Baltusrol the wherewithal to stage the event on such short notice was a boom to both parties. Baltusrol was already on the outs with the USGA for a future US Open and seeing the opportunity for a PGA Championship they made a smart and very wise tactical move. The PGA of America, to Jim Awtery's considerable credit, knew that staying in the Northeast made solid sense. The NY metro area had been ceded to the USGA by the PGA and with the availability of Baltusrol they were able to make a follow-up call to the area after having had their flagship event at WF eight years earlier.
Pat, you may not realize this -- but Phil's win at the Lower in '05 was the icing on the cake. Baltusrol's leadership knew full well that
being pushed aside by the USGA would leave little real opportunities for a return to such a previous spotlight. The club worked well on such a short notice and pulled off a very successful event. Yes, the event was played in my home state but I'm just as able to say otherwise if the facts demonstrated such a thing. You snipe at me and my home state is way out of bounds.
One other thing -- Baltusrol is within the immediate NYC area and while tickets were slow to sell but all were sold out prior to the start of the event. Through Baltusrol's success with the '05 event -- the PGA of America rewarded its success with a return engagement in 2016.
By the way Pat -- talk about erroneous comments -- TCC balked at the PGA event because the logistics of hosting a major event were simply overwhelming for them -- see the '88 US Open and Ryder Cup matches as proof positive of that. You previously listed the club as a future US Open venue -- I hate to say this AGAIN -- but logistics in and around Brookline were among the worst I have seen in covering various events over the years.
Again, I have to say this -- Shinnecock Hills is every bit the equal of PB and Oakmont and deserves (if the club is interested) in being a continued site for the US Open. For you to trounce the NY area and with it SH -- you have exposed the anti-NY thesis that lies at the core of your arguments.
The NY area has the finest array of golf courses in the USA. You challenged me to state who else believes that. I mentioned Doak's name and you conveniently play the role of "let;s change the subject again." At the very top of the NY listing are several US Open worthy venues. Depth indeed is a strength of the area and as I said previously -- the differentiation between the courses chosen is also there to be seen and appreciated -- assuming ones' eyes and mind are open to that possibility.
Pat, Pinehurst #2 succeeds because of its long and storied history -- it's also not as remote as other locations you have trumpeted -- see Sand Hills and Bandon Dunes, as two that come quickly to mind. Erin Hills is also not that remote -- given the closeness to Milwaukee and the greater Chicago area.
One last thing -- try to realize what again you failed to notice -- the scheduling of events from '02 thru '09 is more of an aberation than a consistent fact. Like I said previously -- the spacing of US Opens to the NY area has generally been about four-five years apart. in 1974 WF/W hosted the event -- in 1980 Baltusrol Lower hosted it. In '84 WF/W did so again. Yes, in '86 SH hosted the event but it proved to be a stellar addtion to the championship and to golf in general. The US Open did not return again until 1993 at Baltusrol Lower. The next event was the '02 event at BB. Let's try to provide a bit more perspective instead of looking at the exception that has taken place this decade.
Oh, by the way, I don't need a real pizza sent to me. We have the best pizza in the USA here. Even though you made a major slip -- I'll still send you the "I love NY" baseball cap -- maybe I'll have the various Open sites and years held included on the sides of the hat so you wear it proudly !
