"Fitness centers and French chefs are just not the way to go."

[Bob_Huntley]

 Doesn't a clubhouse/resturannt/pool/fitness center pay for its self at a residential course? Friday nights are a blast at my club wth awesome dinner specials. Sherwood's clubhouse looks hugh and I bet it is profitable. As for munis that are golf only I can understand the small clubhouse.

  Anthony

 

Anthony,

I know of no club that has Food and Beverage profit, just the reverse.

Bob

[Garland Bayley]

  Compareing residential golf communities that have a pool,restuarant,and fitness center to your local muni is like compareing apples to apples if you what  I mean.

  Anthony

You have to excuse Anthony. He spells oranges A-P-P-L-E-S.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

"If your not growing the game, then what are you doing?"

-Jackie Burke

[Rich Goodale]

"If your not growing the game, then what are you doing?"

-Jackie Burke

I hate to say it, but those who want to "grow the game" are swimming uphill.  It could well be that the future of golf includes French chefs, fitness centers and legalized pokers rooms.  Champions is something else, but it is close to becoming unique.

[Anthony Gray]

"If your not growing the game, then what are you doing?"

-Jackie Burke

I hate to say it, but those who want to "grow the game" are swimming uphill.  It could well be that the future of golf includes French chefs, fitness centers and legalized pokers rooms.  Champions is something else, but it is close to becoming unique.

  Rich,

  You make a good point here. Many will not go to the local muni but they will golf in their neighborhood or at least send their kids to.

  Anthony

[Carl Johnson]

I don't think there's one right or perfect solution.  Markets differ.  My golf club in Charlotte is close to a simple, pure golf club.  No large, lavish clubhouse, French chefs or fancy dining, and no tennis.  A lot of our furnishings are second-hand (I've been told).  But we do have a swimming pool.  As I've said before on this site, if we did not have the swimming pool, we'd be out of business.  That's an extra we need to keep the young families with children coming in.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

"If your not growing the game, then what are you doing?"

-Jackie Burke

I hate to say it, but those who want to "grow the game" are swimming uphill.  It could well be that the future of golf includes French chefs, fitness centers and legalized pokers rooms.  Champions is something else, but it is close to becoming unique.

Rich-

 The future of golf may include French chefs, fitness centers and legalized poker rooms--however the future of golf does not depend on these amenities.

The future of golf depends on peoples fondess of the game--which is why "growing the game" (see Play Golf America) is important.  If people want a French Chef they can go to a French restaurant, and so on.

The game is what makes French Chefs and poker rooms happen at Golf clubs. Without golfers those things don't exist at Golf clubs.


-Mike

[Trey Stiles]

 Doesn't a clubhouse/resturannt/pool/fitness center pay for its self at a residential course? Friday nights are a blast at my club wth awesome dinner specials. Sherwood's clubhouse looks hugh and I bet it is profitable. As for munis that are golf only I can understand the small clubhouse.

  Anthony

 

Sure , You can make a paper profit on F&B / Fitness / ect ... But just start allocating utilities , extra staff , capital reserve , and amortization and you see the profit say bye bye.

A modest clubhouse with a simple and inviting  bar / grill can be very profitable.

The reason developers build the big CH and hire French chefs is the same reason they hire " player designer " architects ... It's all about creating the spin.

[J_ Crisham]

Jackie Burke is a link to a golfing generation the likes of which we may never see again. A trip to Champions is not just about great golf but comaraderie. My first visit there was during the week of the Masters back in 2007. After slashing it around the Cypress Creek course for 4 hrs, we spent the afternoon in the men's lockerroom on a late Friday afternoon watching the tourney with a cocktail in hand and seeing Jackie in the midst of the gang telling stories. Amazing how a guy can run a club with 2  great courses , great clubhouse and never an assessment in the history of the club!              Jack 

[mike_beene]

Kyle can elaborate,but I believe the first question Burke asked him in his initial interview was "how many rules are there?" Probably only time Callaway marketing department ever helped anyone.

[Trey Stiles]

Yeah , The locker room @ Champions is pretty special ... I call it a fraternity house for 50 yr old Golfers.

[PThomas]

i've read where some courses are now putting in pools and fitness centers, etc., to try and make their clubs more attractive to entire families and not just a place where Dad goes all the time...anyone know if any of these places have increased their membership??

[Rich Goodale]

Paul

Here's an interesting example.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Swanston-bucks-trend-with-soaring.5323478.jp

Rich

[Steve Lang]

  We looked at joining Champions when the WCC was being taken over by Sequoia Golf.. ~6 month waiting list and $25,000 initiation there folks.. so don't think that just any aspiring golfer is going to join there for the spirit of the game or great locker room atmosphere.. that fee buys a lot of golf!  We'll think twice again if WCC plans to be a lifestyle club screw things up..

KK can advise on the lower young member costs..

Don't think anyone regrets joining Champions..

 

[PThomas]

Paul

Here's an interesting example.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Swanston-bucks-trend-with-soaring.5323478.jp

Rich

from 280 members to 807!  thanks Rich

[Trey Stiles]

We looked at joining Champions when the WCC was being taken over by Sequoia Golf.. ~6 month waiting list and $25,000 initiation there folks.. so don't think that just any aspiring golfer is going to join there for the spirit of the game or great locker room atmosphere.. that fee buys a lot of golf!  We'll think twice again if WCC plans to be a lifestyle club screw things up..

Steve , I played The Player course @ WCC this week ... From a golf maint. perspective , I was very impressed , may have been the best bermuda greens I've ever played ( they had just topdressed and rolled , I'm told 11.5 stimp ) ... With a few exceptions , I was pretty impressed with the architecture ( especially the green complexes )

 

[Carl Johnson]

i've read where some courses are now putting in pools and fitness centers, etc., to try and make their clubs more attractive to entire families and not just a place where Dad goes all the time...anyone know if any of these places have increased their membership??

Paul -- see my post above.  We have a pool.  We've had it for a very long time.  The pool does not increase our membership -- but frankly, without it we wouldn't even be in business as a private golf club in Charlotte.

[Jed Peters]

Have you guys thought that there is a distinct difference between a GOLF club and a COUNTRY club?

[PThomas]

Have you guys thought that there is a distinct difference between a GOLF club and a COUNTRY club?

but would some of the former be in better financial standing if they took on some of the characteristics of the latter?

[Jed Peters]

PT:

There is a place for each type.

[PThomas]

PT:

There is a place for each type.

oh i agree Jed...just wondering about those clubs that have lost lots of members

[Steve Lang]

  Trey,

What tees did you play?

Do you think we need a big Clubhouse there on the hill overlooking the 9th and 18th greens?

[Steve Okula]

I'm at a private club outside Paris. We have a thriving juniors program, but also a fitness center and a fabulous French chef.

[Mark Pritchett]

I like the concept of a pure golf club, however that is a tough sell to my better half.  A pool and the possibility of future tennis and golf lessons for the kids, a fitness center for Mom and Dad and certainly the quality of the golf course and membership were positive points on joining our club. 

I am not sure where our chef hails from.