News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« on: June 03, 2009, 06:59:22 PM »
So, gents, I am just back from my latest round at CB, and I have to report that the course is in the best condition I have ever experienced down there.  They have been rolling the greens a bit, and the 3 problem greens (#7, #12 and #13) are now almost indistinguishable in quality from the others.  In fact, the temporary green on #4 is not that much slower than the others.  With only the untrained feel of a hack golfer to guide me, I would guess that the greens might be stimping at 8 now, no matter what they may say down there, but the biggest thing is that the greens are very, very, very uniform across the entire course.

I would like to stress that neither green conditioning nor overall course presentation should be a impediment to anyone playing CB now; in fact, I would encourage those who are able to visit soon, do so in short order because the course is playing quite well right now.  Those of you who have paid attention to my previous posts regarding CB will recognize that I am not a mere shill for the course, I have been quite honest in my assessments to date--The course is simply spectacular right now...

I snapped a few shots to address some questions that have come up regarding some recent alterations, etc at Chambers Bay...

Here is the new back tee built just off the practice green, ostensibly creating a +/- 440yd option for #10


I wonder if that tee could alternatively be used to turn #1 into a dogleg right, reverse camber +/- 490 yd opening hole--Yowza!


There was concern raised over the growth of rough to the right side of #5...here is my ball in the thickest of the rough in between the fairway and the waste area right...Not really much of a deterrent--the flag is just barely evident in the horizon in the middle of the frame


Here is the previously "grass-challenged" #7 green, which is looking quite sharp.  The slightly brownish areas are a result of our unseasonable sensational weather here the last week, and I hope we can agree that the "tanning" of the course is a nice look as it reflects firming up of the fairways and greens..


For you turf wonks, here is as close as I could get to ground level, so make what you will of the grass leaves!


Here is the view from the new way back tee on #8, which should make it clock in at about 625 yds and makes the initial tee shot a bit of a slider left.  It does bring in the possibility of a big block over the cliff to the right...


Here is a shot of the previously similarly "grass-challenged" #12 green.  Some of you may recognize this middle right hole location which is on an elevated shelf along the runoff from the hillside right.  This whole shelf has been mostly unpinnable for the better part of a year as there has been ragged grass throughout this area and much of the right half of the green....No such problems now!


Here are two examples of perhaps the biggest single change at Chambers Bay--the maturation and continued growth of the native areas.  The fescues and the native grasses have thickened up significantly, and (for this hack at least) the notion that one could comfortably navigate around CB with a single sleeve of balls is a much dicier proposition.  The grassy areas close to the waste area and bunker edges are much "scruffier' now and balls can dive in deep...



The above two shots were from just barely off the right side of #18 fairway...

Anyway, I must repsectfully disagree with a handful of previous posters who have expressed disdain for the course conditioning.  It is in tremendous shape now.  I would still continue to monitor the conditions, though, as this has been an extraordinarily warm stretch of weather for us, and the course is still in its "toddler"-hood...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 07:30:38 PM by Peter_Herreid »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 07:20:50 PM »
Thanks Peter.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 07:51:54 PM »
Thanks for the update. The course looks a little greener than when I was there in March.

Did anyone see the funny photo of Chambers Bay in the US Open program?

The player was 40 yards beyond a green hitting his chip shot. The problem was that he would have had to hit his shot long and uphill to reach that spot.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2009, 08:00:47 PM »
Perhaps a super could chime in, but aren't the native areas the toughest to "get right"?

Damon DiGiorgio

Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 08:21:26 PM »
Yes, by far the native areas are much more difficult to "get right" then the turfgrass areas.  Mostly because of the amount of time it takes.

Damon Di Giorgio
Golf Course Superintendent
The Faldo Legacy Course at Roco Ki Golf Club
Dominican Republic

Will Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 09:26:10 PM »
The new back tee on ten also allows the golfer a view of the water through the dunes. Pretty cool. For the pros it will be 3-wood to right where the hole narrows and then nine iron.

Ian Larson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 10:55:09 PM »
Whats not to like about this golf course? It looks absolutely amazing. Dave and his staff are definetely tuning that place in very well. Patience is a virtue and all the naysayers and rumor-millers should learn something from this.

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 11:19:44 PM »
I spent some time Monday evening with Jay Blasi, who was on site at Chambers for the work being done to the 4th green.  The new green, he estimates, may be be 40% larger than the last.  Pinnable areas will increase and through some reshaping foot traffic should be directed through a greater area to the left side of the putting surface and then directed out the right rear to the 5th tee. 

Ground work should be completed pretty quickly and then growin should begin shortly.  Don't rush out to play that green as it probably will not reopen until shortly before the Amateur next year.  And then only for a few journalists etc for their articles and comments. 

We didn't really talk about the new practice area being constructed on the south side of the golf course but the infrastructure work there is pretty impressive from a distance. 

RT Jones II and Pierce County seem to remain committed to the project although local anecdotal comments would lead me to believe that the economy is pretty rough for a project like Chambers.  I hope that the powers at be can continue to support the golf course until it is truly "on its own" with a solid stand of turf and the operation running smoothly. 

« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 11:22:05 PM by W.H. Cosgrove »

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2009, 11:36:11 PM »
Peter,

Thanks for the photos - can't wait to get back up there later in the summer (hopefully we can get out together again).

The greens are looking a little tighter and faster than when we played - which is great.

People can say what they want, but Chambers is a great course, a lot of fun to play, and the greens are certainly coming around nicely.

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 09:14:56 AM »
Mr. Cosgrove's photos clearly show the new fairway/rough mowing lines that weren't present when I played it in Aug '08.

Is the temporary green visible in the photo?  Perhaps where the group of golfers seem to be gathered?

I have a fond memory of the old setup on #4 - the pin was placed out on the spit of green to the right and I watched as all three of my playing partners shot for the pin but came up short in the bunker.  My caddie pointed out that it was possible to bump and run the ball around the the left side and I watched my shot go up, over and disappear behind the bump,  then reappear to the right side rolling and stopping 4 feet from the pin!  (missed the damn birdie  >:(  )
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 09:54:26 AM by Tom Yost »

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2009, 09:51:54 AM »
The temporary is visible just to the right of center of the photograph.  Those tiny ants in the distance. 

The old green was a wonder.  Unfortunately not all great ideas will with stand the realities of everyday play.  Had the course been a private club with far fewer rounds played, it would probably have worked. 

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2009, 10:07:30 AM »
I played Chambers Bay in May on a really marginal day.  The weather made the day tough but it was really fun.  The worse it got, the better I liked it (wasn't playing well anyway, why not have miserable rain and lightning to add to the fun).  I was surprised though at how many of my fellow architects didn't finish. 

The architecture is wonderful and the setting is great.  All manufactured but really good stuff.  Congratulations to RTJII and Bruce Charlton. 

I can't wait to hear the "talking heads" when the announcement is made that they may play the Open with different par's on different days, man will that upset the left brainers. 

I applaud the USGA and Mike Davis for taking the Open there.  Shows they are are serious about mixing things up.  I predict most PGA pros will score well but they will bitch about everything from the rough to the fescue greens.  Some won't understand it at all.

Lester


Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2009, 12:03:58 AM »
Made it to Chambers for the first time this year on Sunday with Peter Herreid.

The greens have improved to the point I will say that they are roughly the same level as Bandon's or Pacific's in the winter. I would guess that they were 8ish on the stimp, a bit bumpy, but plenty of grass. Much better than what I had expected, and I am a god green snob.

With the summer we have had, it is a great time to visit. And it certainly wasn't busy, which is not a good sign. Perfect Sunday morning, and it was decidedly not busy. We went off at 8, and with basically no waiting, it took 4:40. We did spend some time looking for some balls on a couple of holes, but it just isn't a course you can play very fast.

I was surprised by how good the new roughlines worked and looked. Very natural, and exactly what you would see on true links courses. Also, there are are tons of new tees going in, some for additional length and some for slight changed teeing angles. Looking good for having multiple teeing options come tournament time.

Number 9 still sucks though.

 :)

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2009, 12:30:35 AM »
I played Chambers Bay in May on a really marginal day.  ...

Lester,

What ever could you be talking about? There are no marginal days in May in University Place.

The marginal days are in December and January on the few occasions that the snow flies.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2009, 09:53:25 AM »

Bayley,

Every day I was there it was marginal except one.  It stood up to its reputation weather-wise.  Still not as bad as it can get it Scotland where I have seen sleet in July.

Lester

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2009, 09:58:36 AM »
And it certainly wasn't busy, which is not a good sign. Perfect Sunday morning, and it was decidedly not busy.  :)

have they lowered green fees since they opened the course?  i wonder if that would increase play, esp with the economy like it is
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2009, 10:27:46 AM »
Those of you who have paid attention to my previous posts regarding CB will recognize that I am not a mere shill for the course, I have been quite honest in my assessments to date--The course is simply spectacular right now...

C'mon Peter, everybody knows I am the CB shill around here... :)

Hey, Leary, what did the shuttle driver say about the green speed? Did they say it was running at 10? Is the grass starting to grow on #4?

CB has lowered the green price somewhat. The twilight rate is $90 during mid week and $110 on weekend. And it starts early enough, 2PM, that you won't have any problem finishing.

The course is really in wonderful condition (maybe a bit soft) and you all really need to experience it before the US AM next year.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2009, 11:10:42 AM »
Brush Tee,

Driver said they were their fastest ever. No number though.

It is surprisingly soft though, you are right. No idea why.

Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2009, 05:18:37 PM »
Hey Box!

Twilight starts at 3.30pm in July and 3.00pm in August, so I didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea.  The weekday non-Pierce county green fee is still $160 (after tax), and $110 twilight (after tax) and the weekend non-Pierce county green fee is still $180 or so (after tax) and $122 or so for twilight--I think those rates will be in effect through September, although I'm sure the twilight time will move back again some after Labor Day or so...

Although it certainly seemed busier when we made the turn and much more obviously full by the time we finished, it definitely wasn't "bustling" at 8am on a glorious Sunday morning...

The rough lines are, as Sean noted, really no issue at all at this point.  I suspect it will stay this way now through most of the rest of the bulk playing season.  I didn't get a chance to ask Nyk or any of the other folks if the rough might be allowed to grow up further over the winter, when play will obviously be much less...

The 4th fairway end and the resculpted green site are grassing in now, but there's a long way to go...The "exit ramp" is quite a bit more obviously out the high back right edge now, and the front right appears to have been built up, but I'll be back there in a month and I'll take some more pictures then..

Again, the greens were, by my best guesstimate, about an 8 ---although the practice green is closer to 9-9.5...Again, much better uniformity from green to green...

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2009, 05:30:21 PM »
Sorry, I meant to say 3 PM instead of 2 PM.

But the twilight rate is lower. Here is the text straight from their website:

Guests (Twilight)   Mon-Thur $89,    Fri-Sun, Holidays $109

$110 is not a terrible price for a course of this caliber.
 


Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2009, 05:51:05 PM »
Rich---

Remember the taxman must be paid!  You need to include the University Place and/or Pierce county and/or WaState taxes onto those $ you quoted, and then you wind up at the figures I posted!

Peter_Herreid

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2009, 06:00:55 PM »
ALERT!  I am not trying to equate Ballyneal with Chambers Bay--Repeat, I am not trying to draw a connection or offer a comparison between them...

I am merely noting that, with the ever-expanding array of tee box options at Chambers Bay now, some of which (although not really that many yet) can vary playing angles up to 45-50 degrees (such as #15) and lengths by 150-200 yds (think #6 for example), creativity in the daily tee marker placement could really be an exciting exercise now... Sean suggested a way-low tee box on #3 that I agree would add some variety in elevation change, for example...

If I have had one regularly suggestion for the crew down there, it has been to practice more creativity in where the markers are placed on a daily basis, particularly on the par 3's.  The sand tees are FAR too regularly bunched too closely in terms of effective playing length.

Next time I'm down there with "creative" types, I'm going to suggest a Ballyneal-like mix of teeing grounds....


Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2009, 06:42:16 PM »
Peter,

The best pics I've seen of Chambers on the site yet.  I'm excited for my next tour to be in Tacoma so I can play up there a bunch. 

By the way, were you "down there with creative types" in this picture?



Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2009, 01:44:57 AM »
Peter,

The best pics I've seen of Chambers on the site yet. ...


Ben,

Did you see these?

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39125.0/

Scott may not have covered the whole course, but his pictures rock!

Garland
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay update 6/3/2009 with pictures
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2009, 07:48:42 AM »
Thanks for the updates. I'm hoping to figure out a way to get there next year when I make it to the west coast for the OM opening.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.