Can you study GCA from a cart?

[Anthony Gray]

  You can study GCA on your couch.

  Anthony



 

[Philippe Binette]

Just a note from my previous answer:

There are a lot of courses that are worth to be look at from a cart... mainly because there's not much too see and then why spend 2h30 walking it, take the cart, drive 40 minutes and go study good golf architecture somewhere else.

I could name a few best new courses in that category...

[Scott Warren]

The one time I have played St Michael's was in a cart, because I was with my old man, it was 35C and we'd walked 36 holes the previous day - so he was carting it, and if I wanted to talk to him, so was I! I definitely think I missed a few things by not walking.

I suppose to directly answer the OP: yes, you can. You can also read a book standing on your head... it doesn't mean either are preferable.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I would apologise for being tiresome, if I did not care about the future of Golf.

Melvyn

Melvyn- But are you agreeing with my Costa Del Sol scenario?
Adrian

[Melvyn Morrow]

Adrian

No, I regret I am not. My problem is that in the 70 & 80’s I played in counties within the Tropics, unaided by carts etc. I had a set of clubs, hand full of balls and the time-honoured ability of playing golf as per my father and his father before him. If I wanted to play, I had to take what was there, no carts or mechanised transportation only my legs and I carried my bag (not on a trolley).

Did I have fun, you bet I did, was it at time uncomfortable, yes of course it was, was it worth it, certainly. Those cool beers afterwards made the whole experience worthwhile time after time. I am older now but I still will not take a cart to play golf even with my bad back because it is IMHO not playing the game as it should be played. So no, I do not agree.

Ban walking on golf courses, IMO you might as well ban playing golf, as that would be my main purpose of being there. If I want to go for a ride, I can think of better ways to travel. Adrian it is not golf, its convenience golf, nearer to a fairground experience than a golf course, but clearly others do not share my views.

I do not agree with building courses in hostile locations - whatever the reason and still I still believe in the land must be fit for purpose.
   
Melvyn

[Garland Bayley]

...
Melvyn

PS Michael,  I do not understand how you interoperated my post as you did, yet you have failed to answer my questions on how you would feel if your National Sport  as changed as I described. There was no personnel attack on you or your country. Also why do young and middle aged healthy golfers need to use a cart in temperate climates when playing Golf?

PPS Anthony  Keep bring up carts and it may make you more than blind

I can't understand Michael's response either. The only thing that I can think is that is was an emotional response, not a rational response. The responses did not match the statements they were purported to respond to by their juxtaposition. There was an accusation of Melvyn not understanding what was written, when it seemed clear to me that the opposite was true.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian

No, I regret I am not. My problem is that in the 70 & 80’s I played in counties within the Tropics, unaided by carts etc. I had a set of clubs, hand full of balls and the time-honoured ability of playing golf as per my father and his father before him. If I wanted to play, I had to take what was there, no carts or mechanised transportation only my legs and I carried my bag (not on a trolley).

Did I have fun, you bet I did, was it at time uncomfortable, yes of course it was, was it worth it, certainly. Those cool beers afterwards made the whole experience worthwhile time after time. I am older now but I still will not take a cart to play golf even with my bad back because it is IMHO not playing the game as it should be played. So no, I do not agree.

Ban walking on golf courses, IMO you might as well ban playing golf, as that would be my main purpose of being there. If I want to go for a ride, I can think of better ways to travel. Adrian it is not golf, its convenience golf, nearer to a fairground experience than a golf course, but clearly others do not share my views.

I do not agree with building courses in hostile locations - whatever the reason and still I still believe in the land must be fit for purpose.
   
Melvyn

Melvyn, I am not advocating banning walking, far from it, I was pointing out that in Southern Spain most courses are unwalkable so you have to take a buggy if you want to play, it is the climbs up to the tees that can sometimes be crazy. These courses have been mainly responsible or the multi billion expansion from 1980-2009 of the Costa del sol although it is not so much the quality golf as it is "the quality sun and ok golf".
I enjoy your posts but I think you are being 'just too pure on this one' so we will just have to disagree. :O)

[Anthony Gray]

  Walking is better period. But it is not the only way to enjoy the architecture. It is much easier to enjoy mounding on a cart .

  Anthony

[Kalen Braley]

Anothony,

Its time to ressurect your future of golf carts thread.  The current ones just aren't good enough anymore!!   

[Melvyn Morrow]

Garland 

Thanks to years of in-depth study and readings of the ancient club maker’s journals, I have been able to translate the name Garland. It means in Golf talk “The Wisest among Us” although in some quarters it is also believed to translate as ‘well hung’ but Anthony does not totally agree with that interpretation. For my part, I will wait and see while watching carters trying to understand the GCA of a golf course whilst still sitting in their carts within the multi-storey cart park (due to traffic congestion on the course’s cart tracks).

Oh, what a modern web we weave when we tinker with the tried and tested of walking courses. Soon we will be receiving travel reports form the planes above the courses advising that currently a round of 18 hole will be taken 7.5 hours. Speed traps will be set up on certain parts of the track to catch those trying to speed up the round, with heavy fines being imposed (to supplement the cost of the police to monitor speeding carters). Indeed what a web we weave, soon someone may remember what golf once mean to the average golfer. A peaceful day walking down the fairway at a steady and comfortable rate to achieve a 3.5 hour round while still having time to enjoying and appreciating the full depth of the GCA .

Oh, those were the days, why did we not listen to that kind and generous old guy called Melvyn. Why did our Dads hound him so much, he was right to warn us but they never listened.

We can but dream

Melvyn

Adrian

No walking courses are in their own words courses that ban walking   But no matter as I am so pure I shall be transcending shortly, first stop The Pearly Gates Heavenly Bodies Golf Club, purists need only apply for membership, sorry Adrian that you blown out 

[Michael Blake]

Melvyn,

What will happen when as a result of becoming older it becomes too uncomfortable, tiresome, painful when walking and carrying a bag.

Will you stop playing and cease to enjoy the pleasure of executing a golf shot simply because you refuse any 'mechanical transportation?'

Does a pull-cart qualify as misrepresenting the spirit of the game as it was intended?  Or are they allowed?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Michael Blake

For the record, I can’t normally walk more than 100 yards or so before needing to rest or sit to relieve the pain in my lower back. I currently do not play any golf due to this & another problem. Therefore, I fully understand what carts mean to golfers who have physical handicaps.

Your posts which are directed at me are generally full of some sort of smart-ass comment(s), if that your thing then I hope it gives you pleasure. However, if you are serious about golf, being a member of GCA.com I presume you are then you might actually join in the debate with some serious and constructive comments either for or against carts etc. I did not miss you little snipe re the gloves and banning them, but have a good snigger, go laugh your head off, because it is always easier to destroy than to be constructive.

Golf may mean just a ride in the park for you with the ability to drink as you go. That’s not my way of playing, I like to enjoy my game and then have my beer with all my friend in the clubhouse after the round. Golf is not about winning, because we all can’t win. It is about enjoyment, fun with or without friends. By friends, I mean long term or those who have just joined your four ball for the round.  You and others like you miss the whole point of golf thinking it’s getting the best score, of winning, of being the best, but that just bollocks it’s about you, your ability to understand the game, the course and yes through that you just might get a smile on your face. We don’t care about your score, we want to know if you have enjoyed the game, had fun and perhaps experienced the underlying spirit of the game.

I very much understand that it would be so easy for me to use a cart, but then I will no be true to myself, I will be breaking a tradition that goes back nearly 250 years. That I will not do. The game is important but Golf is far more important to me.

Purest, fanatic, traditionalist  perhaps but what about just an honest guy who wants to see the game he has play for nearly 50 years survive in its most majestic form, that of walking.

Melvyn 

[Anthony Gray]

  tHE TRUTH IS THAT gARLAND HAS BAD KNEES AND WILL BE A CHAMPION OF THE CART IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

  aNTHONY

[Michael Blake]

Melvyn,

I find it kinda sad that your pride and stubborness for 'the spirit of the game' overrides the joy of 'executing a golf shot.'
It's evident from the fact that you currently do not play due to an injury...but you could play if you took a cart.

It's clear that the 'walking' part is more important than the 'hitting a golf ball' part. 

While walking is an integral part of my enjoyment of the game, it's hitting that low running 5 iron over some small mounds and watching it run up onto the green, or that miraculous recovery shot, or meandering putt that goes in, that will keep me coming back when I'm old and gray and probably relying on a cart to do so.

For the record, I always walk and carry my bag and I normally do not keep score (only in my 9 hole league do I keep score)

While I agree with most of your rants on walking, I think the proselythizing about the 'purity of the game' is redundant.  We get it.  But I also get the sense that you treat people who choose to take carts (for whatever reson) like second class citizens.  It feels like a form of elitism.

[Chris DeNigris]

Melvyn,

While new to this forum and discussion, and admittedly somewhat biased towards those who reason against you, I am simultaneously awed and sorrowed by your words and thoughts. It's obvious that golf is different things to different folks. Many of us can appreciate the spiritual aspects of the game-and occasionally experience them. More frequently, most of us revel in the moment and extract most of our satisfaction in the physical contact part of the game. For many of us walking is nice, even preferred but not essential. You, however live in a different realm.

Your principled appreciation and devotion to your interpretation of Golf is very awesome and inspiring, even if not totally understandable.

I'm sorry that you'll not be able to fully enjoy the game as you get older and creaky, but I understand how that compromise isn't possible for you.

Part of me is envious of the purity of your beliefs; the other part glad that I'll never completely get there.

Chris

[Garland Bayley]

...
While I agree with most of your rants on walking, I think the proselythizing about the 'purity of the game' is redundant.  We get it.  ...

What you forget is that many of the golfers in the US don't "get it". You also forget that this is a forum read by far more unregistered guests than by registered participants. If you so "get it" then why do you protest to a world that doesn't "get it"?

[Michael Dugger]

...
While I agree with most of your rants on walking, I think the proselythizing about the 'purity of the game' is redundant.  We get it.  ...

What you forget is that many of the golfers in the US don't "get it". You also forget that this is a forum read by far more unregistered guests than by registered participants. If you so "get it" then why do you protest to a world that doesn't "get it"?

Garland,

Your postulate goes both ways, and that's sorta my point.

I don't recall ever speaking for "many of the golfers in the US"  primarily because I think it's a bad idea.  Once again, it's called a broad generalization.

Folks need to stick to speaking for themselves, and let the cards fall where they may.  The notion you are implying essentially amounts to being politically correct.  "frank discussion" is the phrase bandied about here.  Golf Club Atlas is not going to change the world!!!

I don't think there is anything wrong with taking a cart from time to time.  It does not ruin the game for me, nor do I think you miss out on the "general" golf experience.  And yes I do think you can learn a lot about the architecture of a course from a cart too.

What I suspect a lot of us in favor of carts are saying on this thread is that from time to time they are perfectly acceptable, such as on extremely hot days and such as when you are going through a physical malady.

But this "position" puts us in the camp of somewhere between "walking purist" and "beer drinking, cart going scramble golfer."

To be quite honest, I think it's "the place to be" because on either side of us are fanatics.  Obsessive compulsive disorder.  A complete inability to see grey in between black and white. 

Last time I checked that sounds a lot like the Republicans and the Taliban.



 

[Garland Bayley]

...
While I agree with most of your rants on walking, I think the proselythizing about the 'purity of the game' is redundant.  We get it.  ...

What you forget is that many of the golfers in the US don't "get it". You also forget that this is a forum read by far more unregistered guests than by registered participants. If you so "get it" then why do you protest to a world that doesn't "get it"?

Garland,

Your postulate goes both ways, and that's sorta my point.

I don't recall ever speaking for "many of the golfers in the US"  primarily because I think it's a bad idea.  Once again, it's called a broad generalization.

Once again you have me confused! You are responding to my response to a different Michael, so I don't get why you seem to be saying I had you "speaking for "many of the golfers in the US"". I would also contend that my statement is entirely a fact, not a broad generalization. I did not claim it was all, or most! Simply many, which gives it a very ambiguous quantification.

Folks need to stick to speaking for themselves, and let the cards fall where they may.  The notion you are implying essentially amounts to being politically correct.  "frank discussion" is the phrase bandied about here.  Golf Club Atlas is not going to change the world!!!

I don't think there is anything wrong with taking a cart from time to time.  It does not ruin the game for me, nor do I think you miss out on the "general" golf experience.  And yes I do think you can learn a lot about the architecture of a course from a cart too.

What I suspect a lot of us in favor of carts are saying on this thread is that from time to time they are perfectly acceptable, such as on extremely hot days and such as when you are going through a physical malady.

But this "position" puts us in the camp of somewhere between "walking purist" and "beer drinking, cart going scramble golfer."

To be quite honest, I think it's "the place to be" because on either side of us are fanatics.  Obsessive compulsive disorder.  A complete inability to see grey in between black and white. 

Last time I checked that sounds a lot like the Republicans and the Taliban.



 

[Michael Dugger]

Garland,

What I took from your post is we here at gca.com need to promote walking and walking only because the majority of golfers in the U.S. and fat and lazy cart takers.

Did I miss the mark???

(way to go Mucci on me with the colored text!)

[Kalen Braley]

Whoa fellas...time to take one of these..

[Michael Blake]

Garland,

My 'we get it' was that we the members of GCA 'get' Melvyn's philosophies on purist golf, etc...since he incorporates it into every one of his posts regardless of the thread's topic.  I wasn't implying 'we' the USA or 'we' anything else.  Simply, just the members of this site.  And I guess I forgot that many others who aren't members read everyday, who Melvyn may be trying to convert.

Can you elaborate on your 'many in the US don't get it' statement.  I find that interesting.  What don't they 'get?' 

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

What I took from your post is we here at gca.com need to promote walking and walking only because the majority of golfers in the U.S. and fat and lazy cart takers.

Did I miss the mark???

(way to go Mucci on me with the colored text!)

If you read the post, you will find it says many. Majority would be a word that I would explicitly avoid, because I have no authority to make such a claim. Language has meaning. Everyone, please read the posts on this website carefully! I see too many posters going on a rant about what they thought Melvyn, and others wrote instead of what they actually wrote. Note! I did not make a gross generalization. Too many in my mind is more than one.

[Greg Murphy]

"When you are on a golf course that has cart paths to one side of the hole, and you drive down the path to your ball, hit it, and then proceed back to the cart path, IMO you are not even seeing the golf course, you are looking at the nice cart paths for 4 hours."

So, so irrefutably true.

[Rob Rigg]

I am still a bit confused about someone who walks when they play is a "purist". I do not see how Melvyn or Garland's comments are out of line or malicious. I think people who take carts are really sensitive for whatever reason.

Golf is a walking game, so if you walk you are a "golfer" not a "purist".

If you take a cart, then you are playing a different game and you are a "cart golfer".

There is nothing wrong with being a cart golfer, it is just a different game. If a course is built on a side of a cliff and it is unwalkable, then some of us will say that the course should never have been built, and others will say it is spectacular and such a site should absolutely be built upon. There is nothing wrong with that. Stone Eagle has some difficult walks, but a lot of the course is walkable (per Tom D). There are many courses that are tough walks that people walk because they are passionate about doing so. Worst case, walkers can play many "cart golf" courses because you can still walk the holes, you just need to ride the kilometer inbetween which really sucks.

Stating that Americans created "cart golf" is an irrefutable fact. Why are people sensitive about this? It is fact, a different game was invented, what's the problem? It IS "cart golf".

Also, it is a fact that walking when you play ultimately costs you strokes because it "stresses" your body. A study by the Rose Center in CO proved it. As an FYI, if you push a cart then you actually save strokes versus carrying. If you take a cart, your rhythm is ruined a you lose about 3 strokes per nine to the golfer who pushes and gain one on the golfer who carries because carrying puts a lot of stress on your body.

You can appreciate GCA from the cart or by foot - and if you are a cart golfer maybe you should only look at a course through the lens of your cart window because you do not want to know what you are missing.

[Ben Sims]

Robb,

Be sure and send the University of Oregon's Athletic Director an email to tell them that they hired a "cart golfer" as their head golf coach (Casey Martin).

Honestly guys.  So when I walked for my round last Friday I was a golfer and the next day when I rode with my buds and drank beer I was a "cart golfer"?  Get real. 

By the way.  I shoot better scores when I walk. Lots of other players will tell you this.  I don't care what any institute has to say.  From someone that is required by regulation to stay relatively fit, I scoff at the notion that the "stress" of walking adds strokes.  If walking a course is harder for you than actually making that little white ball do what you want it to, then I suggest you get your tour card and make some money whacking that thing.  I find hitting the ball accurately to be much more stressful than walking.   

As for the notion that I am not a golfer if I ride some of the time, that's just impractical, untrue, and patently malicious. And the statement should be made with regards to EVERYONE that rides.  Again, you're talking to a large group of pretty influential golfers when you start throwing around generalities like that.