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Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2009, 05:46:47 PM »
You guys are ridiculous.

So is Casey Martin not a "golfer"


What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2009, 06:02:27 PM »

Michael D

Would you call it evolving if carts or some sort of mechanical device was used by the batting or field teams in Baseball – would that be acceptable to you or are you out of date, a purest who wants to see the players run? 

What if American football evolved to have a single team on each side with no defence or offence change options? That it becomes a single game of two halves with no interruption/stoppages apart for injury or are you a purest and want to see your stop start game of four-quarter continue unchanged.

Would it annoy you that some are trying to change your National Sport for the sake of convenience. I would certainly not call the introduction of carts as evolution when discussing Golf, if anything, it is a retrograde step removing an essential part of the game i.e. walking.
 
As for playing with featheries, that is the bankrupt argument all you guys use.

As for snobbery, you guys will lower yourself to any level to support the use of carts. If Walking is snobbery then using a cart, if fully able to walk describes the type of person you are and sends out the message that you are lazy and want an easy life. Well if that is what you want then I have no problem with that, but do not dare hide behind or try to put it down to golf evolving. It is you, my friend announcing to the world that you just want the easy life and it has nothing to do with the Golfers that Walk.   

Melvyn


Michael Blake

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Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2009, 06:10:32 PM »
Also, just because you drive a cart on the fairway while playing (as has been stated multiple times already) does not mean that you have the same experience as walking.

So, driving a cart down the middle of a fairway and 'assessing the architecture' is different than walking down the middle of the fairway and 'assessing the architecture?'

I'm an avid walker too, but I'm trying to understand how one cannot study GCA by taking a cart.  Seems to me you can.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2009, 06:11:14 PM »
Melyvn,

So let me get this straight...is it your position that your against carts on the golf course?   ;D

The reality is that the leisure version of every sport is different than the real thing.

1)  Football is often played without helmets, equipment, etc in recreation leagues...they just use flags to down a person.
2)  Basketball is often played half court only in a recreational setting and folks don't "foul out"
3)  Slow pitch Softball with shorter bases is played in lieu of fast-pitch baseball.

Why is it such a stretch to have a "leisure" version of golf that includes carts, range finders, and booze?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2009, 06:25:07 PM »
I don't see why a course can't be seen from a cart.  It depends on who is doing the looking.  There are some guys whose opinion doesn't amount to much to me no matter how many times they have seen a course.  There are other guys who could take a quick 2 hour tour whose opinion I would trust.  The really odd thing is when my opinion is significantly different from someone's I trust.  In the past, it usually came down to faulty memory which is really just another way of saying that one or both of us don't know the course well enough.  In recent years I think my opinion may be different because I am looking for different design traits than some of my trusted (often unknown to them!) opionators.

One thing is for sure, if I rode a course I think my evaluation would be compromised.  I need the time to walk and take it in.  The last time I rode around a course I was trying to "see" was Merion West and I don't have much of a clue about that course. To be honest, my opinion probably isn't solid until after 5 or 6 plays.  Unfortunately, to go back, the course has to pass the 1st impression test or be very, very affordable.  There is only so much time and money in the golf budget especially as I like to go back to see the courses I really like again and again.  

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2009, 06:28:45 PM »

Michael D

Would you call it evolving if carts or some sort of mechanical device was used by the batting or field teams in Baseball – would that be acceptable to you or are you out of date, a purest who wants to see the players run? 



An advantage is had in baseball by virtue of a player running faster, in golf this is not the case.  Thus, your analogy fails here.


What if American football evolved to have a single team on each side with no defence or offence change options? That it becomes a single game of two halves with no interruption/stoppages apart for injury or are you a purest and want to see your stop start game of four-quarter continue unchanged.

Would it annoy you that some are trying to change your National Sport for the sake of convenience. I would certainly not call the introduction of carts as evolution when discussing Golf, if anything, it is a retrograde step removing an essential part of the game i.e. walking.
 

I resent that you are attempting to make a connection between me and this stereotype you seem to have of "Americans"  You are not building a very sound argument here if you must resort to such broad generalizations.


As for playing with featheries, that is the bankrupt argument all you guys use.


"All you guys use"  Once again, stick to the facts, Melvyn.  I am not an "average" American, and for that matter I don't believe there is such a thing.  However, quite obviously, you have a bee in your bonnet, or as one of my friend's might say, a "serious woody" for SOME American behavior.  Just don't lump us all in the same kettle unless you desire for the same.  So, stick to the question, why don't you use hickorys and featheries???  Using your argument, has modern technology made the game better???


As for snobbery, you guys will lower yourself to any level to support the use of carts. If Walking is snobbery then using a cart, if fully able to walk describes the type of person you are and sends out the message that you are lazy and want an easy life. Well if that is what you want then I have no problem with that, but do not dare hide behind or try to put it down to golf evolving. It is you, my friend announcing to the world that you just want the easy life and it has nothing to do with the Golfers that Walk.   


This last paragraph really does it for me.  I think I'm done having any discussion with you because A.) Yer being a dick and B.) you can't even read.  

I said that sometimes you die hard walkers get on your high horse when it comes to the use of buggies.

I really take offense to your insinuations that I am a fat and lazy American too.  

I was born with flat feet and must wear arch supports in all my shoes.  Pretty much been the bane of my existance since I was a child.  I don't tell you this story to seek sympathy or make excuses, I live with pain every single day, certainly more than most.  Every 3 mos. or so I'll deal with an achilles problem, or fluid on the knee.  It's a fine line I must tread between exercising enough to keep the muscles strong and ligaments/tendons loose, and working out too hard, something which my poor tender feet just flat out cannot handle.

I use to play soccer ("your guy's football"  ;) ) all the time, basketball too.  Use to run a lot as well.  I've had to abandon all of these activities because my feet simply cannot take the pounding.

Golf is one of the few outdoor activities which my lower extremities can handle, in moderation, and even then, sometimes after walking 18 my feet just ache.  When on golf trips, after walking 2-3 rounds, I have to take a break.  

Not everyone who takes a cart from time to time is lazy.  
      


« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 07:11:22 PM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2009, 07:03:21 PM »
You guys are ridiculous.

So is Casey Martin not a "golfer"


Of course he's a golfer.  And a helluva great golf coach too.
My original post excepted those that need a cart. 

-------------
Sean,
Good example on the Merion West round.  We were really zipping around there, weren't we....   I've walked it a couple of times, and there's a lot of really cool, quirky architecture there.   It's a GREAT walking course.

---------
Melvyn,
We're talking about studyng GCA, not playing on this thread.  (PS - nobody's ever fouled out from a basketball game played for fun.  Halfcourt is usually played when a full court isn't available or you're just playing a quick pick-up game)








« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 07:11:23 PM by Dan Herrmann »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2009, 07:03:26 PM »
Melyvn,

So let me get this straight...is it your position that your against carts on the golf course?   ;D

The reality is that the leisure version of every sport is different than the real thing.

1)  Football is often played without helmets, equipment, etc in recreation leagues...they just use flags to down a person.
You know very well that is not football, and is known as flag football.
2)  Basketball is often played half court only in a recreational setting and folks don't "foul out"
The two things you are referring to here are known as halfcourt, and pickup basketball. Not the same as basketball.
3)  Slow pitch Softball with shorter bases is played in lieu of fast-pitch baseball.
Don't know why you brought this up as these are two different sports with different names as you have written.
Why is it such a stretch to have a "leisure" version of golf that includes carts, range finders, and booze?

I will admit that we go a bit extreme by referring to cart ball. It would be more accurate to call it cart golf.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2009, 07:13:06 PM »
Has this thread really denegrated to a semantical issue?

golf vs cart golf
flag football vs football
softball vs baseball

c'mon, Garland. 

Is this like the difference between sex and love making?

Where does good old fashioned f*&$ing fall?

Either seems to be the same thing to me
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 07:46:04 PM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2009, 07:25:30 PM »
Michael,

There is a difference between golf and cart golf, just as there is a difference in the evaluation of Black Mesa by walkers and carters.
That is what this thread is about. Evaluating a course from a cart ignores the sensations and discoveries found while walking.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2009, 07:30:15 PM »
Michael B,

My issue with using a cart to study GCA DURING A ROUND is that you are traveling quickly over the fairway, or along the cartpath, and therefore do not get the "full" experience.

You can study GCA via a cart if you are not playing, just like you can do so via walking when you are not playing.

I believe, however, that it is very difficult to fully appreciate the GCA of any golf course from a cart while playing a round. 1) You are traveling too quickly, 2) you are not walking tee to fairway to green so you are missing part of the course, 3) you are not gaining the full experience because you are playing cart golf instead of golf, 4) etc.

The one caveat, IMO, is studying the architecture of a course that is CART ONLY. In that case, the course was designed for cart golf and it would only be appropriate to experience and evaluate it from a cart.

Michael D,

golf vs cart golf - different - one uses a mechanized machine for transportation, the other does not
flag football vs football - no mechanized transportation present
softball vs baseball - no mechanized transportation present
sex vs love making - no mechanized transportation present  . . . usually

golf and cart golf are not the same thing - and there is nothing wrong with that. a large percentage of the physical benefit and stress of walking are removed from the game, how can it be the same thing?



Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2009, 07:53:58 PM »
I have a hard time buying the "stress" of walking argument fundamentally changes the game.

Take Exhibit A

Highly skilled golfer using a caddy
Walks right down each hole, from tee to middle of fairway to green with few detours in between
Avoids the wear and tear of cleaning his clubs, packing the bag and raking bunkers 


Exhibit B

Crappy player using a buggy on a 90 degree rule scenario
Hits the ball all over the place.  Often times in places where they cannot drive the cart
Hits tee shots to the opposite side of the cart path on almost every hole.  Must cross every single fairway to get to their ball
Replaces all their own divots
Cleans their own clubs
Rakes their own sand bunkers

I've had days like this.  I like to say if I wanted to spend all day with a rake in my hand I'd of stayed home and worked in the yard!

It begs the question, why should the expert player using a caddy be subject to a less strenous physical test than the poorer player?  Everyone knows crummy golfers traverse more terrain, rake more sand.....they are constantly rushing to "keep up"

Say it ain't so, folks?




« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 07:55:57 PM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2009, 07:58:30 PM »
OK - plz try to keep this on topic - we're talking about studying GCA, not necessarily playing.

If we start chatting about playing, we'll end up with another Merion-esque thread ;)

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2009, 08:11:19 PM »
I have a hard time buying the "stress" of walking argument fundamentally changes the game.

I doubt the walkers are saying anything about "stress" of walking. I certainly am not, and I don't know where you get that. Walkers are more likely to talk about the joy of walking.

...Everyone knows crummy golfers traverse more terrain, rake more sand.....they are constantly rushing to "keep up"

Say it ain't so, folks?

It ain't so! While I may traverse a little more terrain (go out and measure it, it's not that much) I certainly don't rake more sand, and I generally am waiting on the better golfers.



"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2009, 08:14:49 PM »
Simple question - can you really study GCA of a course you're playing if you're in a cart?  ...
OK - plz try to keep this on topic - we're talking about studying GCA, not necessarily playing.

If we start chatting about playing, we'll end up with another Merion-esque thread ;)

Jeez Dan, make up your mind.  ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Anthony Gray

Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #65 on: June 03, 2009, 08:35:01 PM »

  Does a cart make you blind?

  Anthony


Melvyn Morrow

Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #66 on: June 03, 2009, 09:11:51 PM »
You can study GCA in just about any mode of transport from feet through to aerial. The point of the matter is which method will give the most information in a reasonable time. Evaluating time money etc, I still come down to Walking the course. As for using a cart, well that depends if the course allows carts in the first place, if they do, then the distraction by mental concentration to drive these simple vehicles allows the observer/driver the potential to miss vital aspects of the GCA. Therefore, I again still say Walking.

To clear up a point or two, let me again reiterate that I am not against America or Americans, but some of you do run quickly and hide behind your flag than answer some of my questions.

It has become acceptable to have carts on a golf course yet when many voice their opinions that they want golf to remain a walking game, they are attacked as being anti-American, purists, traditionalist etc. etc.  However when a simple question is asked about changes to American Football, Baseball, no one answers the question and states that the analogy has failed – IMHO,it has not, it is just that my questions have not been answered.

As for stereotyping Americans, no I have not done so but I have asked questions, however its fine for you to accuse me of being aloof, taking the moral high ground, calling me a dick, arsehole etc. but you still ignore my questions.

Again, I am forced to repeat myself regards technology, so again I say that I am not against technology if it helps maintain the quality of the ball clubs etc. However, I am against it if it is only used to generate greater distance – golf cannot afford to keep lengthening its courses.

I have no chip on my shoulder, no bee in my bonnet regards Americans, in fact when on GCA.com I do not consider the nationality of others. However, I quickly learn who is American and who is not by your reactions. Its quite amusing because you are quick to have a go at others but when serious questions are asked many hide behind your flag waiting for support from fellow Americans – why, as this is just a discussion board for what I believed was to open and honest airing of views.

Michael, at not time did I accuse you of anything, I just asked questions, however if you feel the cap fits then that is your problem.

So back to the question, I sincerely believe that golf can be enjoyed and understood more by walking than riding, after all walking has always been an integral part of the game of golf. How can you play golf on a golf course without walking?

Melvyn

PS Michael,  I do not understand how you interoperated my post as you did, yet you have failed to answer my questions on how you would feel if your National Sport  as changed as I described. There was no personnel attack on you or your country. Also why do young and middle aged healthy golfers need to use a cart in temperate climates when playing Golf?

PPS Anthony  Keep bring up carts and it may make you more than blind ;)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 09:20:46 PM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2009, 10:26:02 PM »
I think many of you missed the point, with the exception of Micheal.

That being that golf is just another fun thing to do with your spare time.  The vast majority of weekend warriors don't have officials walking with them, no one is keeping score with prize money, no one is strictly enforcing the rules...its just for fun for petes sake.  And if folks want to ride in a cart, swig beer, and have a few laughs, then whats the big deal.

Just like weekend warriors who don't want to be hobbled for weeks play non-contact football.
Just like weekend warriors play half court ball when they only have 3 other buddies around.
Just like others go out to the field and hit a few balls around with a bigger ball than a baseball.

Its all spin offs of the same thing, and its all just for fun. So whether you call it golf, cart ball, cart golf, or whatever bastardized name you can think of that fine with me.  In the end its just doing something that interests you and thats that.

Lighten up folks...for real!!!

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2009, 11:11:52 PM »
Melvyn,

Before I start my reply, I want you to know that I deeply appreciate all of the information and illustrations you emailed me on my first day as a member.  Please do not think I lose any respect for you as a GCA member and fellow golfer as I start writing this.

Yes I will proudly hide behind that flag with others.  For these reasons.

1) The US generates more revenue and numbers of golfers than any other country.  By a lot.
2) The advance of technology and evolution of the game is never ending.  I've heard those on here say that Old Tom would've had a Sky Caddie if it would've been available to him.  I am sure he would've had a Cat D5 out on South Uist too. Neil Armstrong didn't complain that he got to the moon by rocket instead of steam engine. 
3) I would be interested to know which courses you have walked in the US.  Some are built on ground that is simply not made to be walked.  Some great courses aren't conducive to walking.  Some really awful courses are flat, with greens close to tees, featureless, and easy to walk.
4) If carts were outlawed in our nation, I hypothesize that there would be a 20-40% decrease in rounds played.  Rounds played is a pretty good indication of money flow and growth of the game., i.e., it would be bad for golf in America, period.


I understand your vitriol towards the cart.  But, there are some honorable people, that have been very important to the game that routinely use carts to play.  It keeps many in the game that would otherwise give it up if they had to walk.  It allows you to repeatedly play courses over ground that wasn't intended for golf, and in doing so, allows you to see great triumphs of architecture and EVOLUTION of the placement and routing of golf courses. 

Melvyn, I regularly agree with many of your traditionalist views regarding our great game.  But you must understand that this particular argument is getting tired, and like the Alamo here in San Antonio, indefensible in the end.

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2009, 11:47:43 PM »
Guys,

If any of you have played a tournament in 95 degree weather and walked, you will recognize that there is additional stress to your body from walking than taking a cart. Carrying a bag adds even more stress, pushing a cart adds a little more. That is why the difference in calorie burn between walking and riding over 18 holes is almost 1000.

They walk on tour for a reason, thankfully, because the stress of walking is part of the game.

There is nothing wrong with playing cart golf if you are so disposed - and calling it cart golf is not insulting to those who play it - but it is a different game.

Kalen - I agree, it is no big deal, but it is not golf. People can do what they want, fun is a good thing, but someone on a cart cannot is clearly at a disadvantage from an architecture appreciation standpoint than someone who walks.


Melvyn Morrow

Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2009, 07:14:28 AM »

Ben

You have your opinions, which you have every right to air on GCA.com related to golf. Whether I consider them relevant, repetitive (which is in part a description of golf – sinking a little ball in a hole 18 times) or valid, GCA.com gives us – the Members the right to express our views.

Questions asked opinions sought that is the nature of a Discussion Group. Many topics are in themselves repetitive, new members asking similar questions, existing Members offering variations on the theme, the very nature of humans willing to be open, conveying their thoughts about the game of golf.

I am sorry you and others find the subject of cart becoming boring, but then you have grown up with the humble cart, they have taken over your game on your side of the pond. The ubiquitous cart is certainly investing your golf courses, but we do not have that problem here, well not in the way you have it. There is still time to try to stop or limit their numbers on our courses. In fact, it is no so much the carts that I object to, it is the cart tracks and the terrible scars they leave on some of our courses that I would like to eradicate. For many of us it is an important issue, so it needs to be discussed. Golfers need to know about the problems rather than just accepting the easy option of doing nothing. But lets not forget that those pro the cart have the right to sing its praises if they so desire.

As for courses needing the cart, this is another of my points, building golf course on land not fit for purpose. There are many sites out there that IMHO should never have been built. The land or site is just not suitable for the game of golf. I am not saying that courses cannot be built in hot/dry climates, they have and are, but not all resort to the cart as the only way to play golf in these partly hostile regions of the world. India, Africa, North & South America, the West Indies, Australia to name but a few regions. Many have courses that are older than the cart where mere humans have played golf for years without the need for carts.

As for money, it may be the very thing that is at the heart of our problems today. As for numbers, Scotland had the most courses and clubs a 100 years ago, so I see nothing to shout about.

Is it actually possible to get to the Moon on a steam-powered vehicle – if not what sort of argument is that – a totally bankrupt one, why do you have to resort to making that kind of statement. As for Old Tom, it still surprises me what people say about him, but then most have not got a clue how many courses he designed either, which just goes to show just how much they know about him.

As to my previous comments, I have not played in North America or Australia. Nevertheless, I will also repeat myself and say that many courses existed in these countries well before the introduction of the cart. Perhaps it is more a reflection on the quality and determination of the golfers in those halcyon days (pre-cart).

One thing that you did say that “Some great courses aren't conducive to walking” which in my eyes is tantamount to blasphemy when discussing golf. For me Golf is first and foremost a Walking game, even if you ride a cart you still have to walk to your ball, over the Greens, in and out of the clubhouse and to and from your car. Without walking golf is not an outdoor activity PERIOD.   That comment is also what I am fight against, its alien to my way of thinking about golf, the way my family has played the game which pre dates your War of Independence. My family golfing tradition is older than your country, perhaps that puts it in perspective for you and why I am passionate about wanting to see it continue in is full walking format.

However, back to my original questions, how would you feel if American Football, Base or Basket Ball was changed along the lines I previously mentioned? Would you try to fight it or accept it as a player? 

Important issues can get boring for those who don’t see the problem but Ben as you have the right to your opinion so do I.

My comments have never been about your country, its all about golf. Many of your fellow Americans are Walkers, some have a stronger opinions and voice them from time to time. This is not about and never has been about Nations but the right to play golf in it only real form and that is Walking.

If you are physically fit but ride a cart, I wonder why you just don’t save time and money, stay at home and play Nintendo Wii Golf on a large TV screen. When it’s not your turn, you can lounge in the comfort of your own chair. No green fees, no cart rental, large stock of cold beer, minimal walking to and from the board, but then its not real golf - is it.

Ben wish you well and hope you have a little more understand of why some of us feel strongly about carts their track ways. It is a subject that will not go away.

Melvyn



Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2009, 07:36:05 AM »
Melvyn - love your passion :)

I walk whenever I can, but if it's 90 degrees F, I'm in a cart.  I'm 49, and it's a health issue for me. And for most folks my age or older.  Remember, most of us don't have access to caddies.

I played in 99F weather a couple of years ago at a great Flynn course with caddies.  No problem here.  But carrying for me in that heat just doesn't work.

----------------------

Anthony Gray

Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2009, 08:02:39 AM »


 Can you study GCA from a cart? Tommy does. And who can argue with his knowledge?

  Anthony


Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2009, 08:24:20 AM »
I think the cart IS part of the modern game. I prefer to walk but I have a injury, I would love to play 36 holes and carry like I used too. The issue of land fit for purpose keeps crossing up by Melvyn and it is the same tiresome answer. Look at this example.
There are say 60 courses in Andulacia (Costa Del Sol) about 5 are walkable...
The land is hilly
To make a golf course playable you need a cart
The golf courses are popular
People buy houses around the courses
People love it there, golf & sun
Andulacia has grown into a city 100 miles long by 2 miles wide on the strength of golf

We HAVE to adapt golf courses in land NOT ORGINALLY FIT FOR PURPOSE in areas where there is no natural land suitable for golf.
The architecture can still produce very pleasurable golf courses but they are NOT like the links courses of the 1800s
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Can you study GCA from a cart?
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2009, 09:43:25 AM »

I would apologise for being tiresome, if I did not care about the future of Golf.

Melvyn

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