Sorry if I missed this: Golf in the Great Northwest

[Tony_Chapman]

Has their been any discussion on this 1 hour show with Tom Doak about Rock Creek Cattle Company on The Golf Channel? It's an awesome program with great insight from Tom and how they routed the golf course. Wonderful overview of the place as well. Looks like a hell of a golf course and facility.

[Brad Wilbur]

I also really enjoyed the show, and the different perspectives that the video from high overhead gave.  It was nice to have a show on the golf channel pertaining to architecture------------I didn't really miss another show featuring the Medicus.  It appears there will be another new show or two coming up, but I could get no details about the course or architect that will be featured.

[Ben Kodadek]

Agreed.  I really enjoyed his take on "members'" courses.  Stating that he wants people to enjoy coming back 20 years after the fact.  Essentially, it's completely opposite of most designers (particularily the high end daily fee), who are afraid to put any nuances in the design.

[Ben Sims]

I don't think it was a particularly enlightening piece of journalism.  But the entertainment and drool factor was worth an hour on a Sunday afternoon.  I look forward to finding a way to see this course.  I basically learned two things:

1) Rock Creek Cattle Company and in particular Mr. Foley, are just another in a long line of amazing client/owners that Renaissance has had the opportunity to work with.

2) It is apparently hard to catch fish and talk golf architecture at the same time.

[Tom_Doak]

I wondered if that was ever going to be see the light of day.  Ben, not only did I fish badly, but I played golf so badly while trying to shoot their little vignettes that I am surprised they managed to find anything to put on air. 

Between that and the videos we've done for Old Macdonald, I was beginning to wonder if it was possible to do a video on golf course architecture that would actually keep people's attention.  Fortunately, I think Michael Robin is working on one right now that will do a better job of telling the story.

And Ben, you are right about your first point, that was a heck of a project to get and I only wish there were more like it out there right now.  Instead, it might be the last such project of the genre.  I think I said somewhere along the way in that show that it was only in the last few years that anyone could conceive of building a course like that in Montana because of the costs of all the rock and the unlikelihood that it could pay for itself ... the period 2001-2007 was probably the only time it would have happened ... and I do not think we'll see another one like it, at least for a while.

Luckily, in China, they still believe that anything is possible.

[Matt_Ward]

Just for the sake of location -- is Rock Creek really a part of the Northwest ? I see Montana as part of the northern fringes of the Rocky Mountain area.

Although it's not mentioned that much here on GCA -- minus what Shivas has said - Rock Creek is indeed a very special place and cearlt what it offers was fortunately completed prior to where the golf market and the overall economy stands now.

I said this before -- of all the Doak layouts I have played to date -- Rock Creek is indeed very special and has the best collection of par-4 holes from the ones I have played of Tom's designs to date.

[Ben Sims]

Matt,

If you draw one line bisecting the CONUS longitudinally and one laterally, then even Colorado can be Northwest!

This is a bit off thread, but from the sounds of all the talk, I need to get up to this joint.  There isn't a lot of ink on GCA about Rock Creek like there is other Renaissance courses of the genre--Ballyneal, Stone Eagle, Sebonack.  Can you expound on the course a bit for me?

[Craig Sweet]

Matt...until you get to the Continental Divide all of western Montana is considered part of the "inland empire"....also called Columbia Country from time to time because everything west of the divide drains into the Columbia...most people in western Montana probably associates with Spokane, WA better than they do Billings, MT....

[Tom_Doak]

Geography lesson for everyone but Craig:  Rock Creek is about forty miles NW of Butte, and about thirty miles west of the Continental Divide ... the Clark Fork flows NW, toward the Columbia.

[Reef Wilson]

I was just checking to see if anyone had mentioned this show yet and it looks like someone beat me to the bunch. I unexpectedly caught this yesterday in the grill room after a round where I had told my buddy about this great new course in Montana I was going to play next month. Nice coincidence and I hope to watch this show properly later this week as in true golf channel fashion it looks like they will be reshowing it often. And I'm VERY much looking forward to checking out this course and the property in general. I was surprised to find so few photos here, but that makes me all the more anxious to see it with my own eyes soon.

I was also wondering about the true Northwest-ness of the course and thanks for the explanations there.

I won't clutter up the board with my own self serving thread, but are there any other must plays in Montana? I am specifically thinking about the anything in or in between the Glacier and Yellowstone areas. I've done some searches, but didn't find any really specific answers. I played Eagle Bend a long time ago, but other than that I know nothing. Thanks!

Reef

[Cory Brown]

Great show, but I believe it was titled "Golf Resorts of the Great Northwest" and it sounds as though the course is private.  Does that really constitute a resort?

[Garland Bayley]

Geography lesson for everyone but Craig:  Rock Creek is about forty miles NW of Butte, and about thirty miles west of the Continental Divide ... the Clark Fork flows NW, toward the Columbia.

Well, almost everyone but Craig. I drove over that continental divide today making the dash from Billings to Portland.

[Ben Kodadek]

Reef, while it's a bit out of the way, I would recommend Old Works in Anaconda.  It's on an old Superfund site with some great holes.  The black slag bunkers are pretty interesting.  I would also make an effort to get onto The Stock Farm in Hamilton.  It's private, but I would imagine a letter would do the trick.  Pretty interesting Fazio design.  Some excellent holes, some so so.

[Tom_Doak]

Old Works is only about 30 miles from Rock Creek, and even less as the crow flies.  It's pretty easy to get over there.

The two other most talked-about courses in Montana are the two Fazio courses, Stock Farm and Iron Horse which is up near Whitefish.  Both of them are private clubs and I don't know how hard they are to get on to see ... I spent all my spare time at Rock Creek.

I've not seen any of the newer courses down near Yellowstone.

[Craig Sweet]

Garland...a dash?

 Billings to Portland...890 miles and better than 13 hours in the car.   AWESOME!

And you didn't even stop by the club to say hello?

[Reef Wilson]

Thanks for the tips. I think Old Works is my best bet for a second round and those bunkers make for a pretty unique look. There is a chance we might be over near Stock Farm for a couple of days also, so I may have to look into that also.
cheers
Reef

[Craig Sweet]

Reef...if you are in the Missoula area I'd recommend Canyon River and The Ranch Club...another fun course (and totally different than RCCC, OW, or the Stock Farm) is the Missoula Country Club...where I work. 

[Daryl David]

I finally caught this show the other night.  I thought it was very good and would encourage folks to set your DVR if rebroadcast.  I was afraid it might be more of an infomercial, but was pleasantly surprised.  You can learn quite a bit about the design design challenge from the comments Tom made and the visuals of the course are amazing.   Rock Creek is really special.  Not to be missed if  you get a chance to see it.

I also noticed the comment Tom made about Mr. Foley looking at land for projects in the Northwest.  That got me excited until I realized the show was filmed last September.  I wonder if those plans have been shelved now.

PS:  Props to Tom for not editing out his watery 5 on the par three 17th.  It would have been real easy to do another take using the shot he stiffed from the drop zone!

[Jeff Tang]

I had DVR'd this and watched it last night.  Great show!  I would highly recommend it for everyone on this site as Doak speaks throughout the show about architecture and his design philosophy regarding how / why he built each of the holes as he plays them at Rock Creek, really interesting.  I hope the Golf Channel has more features like this showcasing other courses and how they were built.  Is anyone aware of any other shows being put together like this one?  The course and the land look unbelievable.

[Kalen Braley]

I was able to catch this show last night on Golf Channel and thought it was very well done.

Does anyone know if this was just a one-off thing or do they plan to have more of them?  While I'm not sure what kind of ratings its generating it was certainly very interesting to see the behind the scenes work of making RCCC and the explaining of its vision.

Tom, did you end up catching any fish in that stream by the 17th hole?   

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:

I have not been back to Montana since that program was shot.  I do intend to try again.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen:

I have not been back to Montana since that program was shot.  I do intend to try again.

Tom,

It looks to be a fantastic course and I'm looking forward to a trip up there in a few months even more now.

As you mentioned there were a few other potential projects in the Pacific Northwest,  I'm curious if you could elaborate in general terms what those may encompass. After living in the Spokane area for a number of years, i've come to learn the entire region has a lot to offer in natural terrain and otherwise to make for some terrific top notch courses.

[Tom_Doak]

Kalen:

Mr. Foley did purchase a couple of other large tracts of land in the northwest, but plans for those are on the back burner for now ... he's not crazy enough to be building more in the current economy.

[Tom Huckaby]

I too watched this show (pretty much by accident of bad remotesmanship) and it was indeed very cool.  I want the host's job though - I could talk circles around that guy, or at least ask better questions.    But it was cool to see Rock Creek, and hear the architect's thoughts.  I now also feel that my friend shivas may well not be insane for stating RC is superior to Sand Hills.  From the looks of things on that show, it is an arguable point at the very least.  And given I consider Sand Hills the finest course on this planet, well hopefully you understand this was a tall statement for me to make.

But Tom's post there also brings up a question...

Tom, do you (or does any other architect who travels a lot) ever go back to any of your courses - or go to any other - just for fun?

Or do you guys travel so much that fun means staying at home?

Just curious....

TH

[Rob Rigg]

That show is awesome (but could be even awesomer with someone else on the mic) - great to see a program that actually discusses the architecture with the archie. It would be great if they did one for Chambers andTetherow, to show those courses and get a couple of different archies views.

RCCC looks incredible - However, I wonder how sustainable a course like that will be given the economy? It seems to have a wonderful benefactor which is great. Not sure what their model was going in but it will be tough to find people to build there if it is only summer for a few months. Seems like there are a lot of RCCC models around - with a bunch of them in Bend, OR that are currently hurting big time.