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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« on: May 29, 2009, 02:35:22 AM »
It was a great day at Olympic club. The Lake course was reopened today. I think inspite of much well intentioned comentary to the contrary, it turned out great. I was fortunate to be one of the opening day players and frankly loved the new 8th. Liked the work on 15 and 18. I am fine with 7 but still felt the old 7th green complex was a rare gem in golf. It appeared to me the the work done on the entire green complexes was very very good and my hat is off to Bill Love and Pat Finley and the team who did the work. The course is better for the work done in my opinion.

Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2009, 07:32:30 AM »
Thanks for the update Tiger.  I will be playing Olympic Lake sometime this summer.

Sounds like they changed all their green complexes.  Was the course also lengthened and to what degree?
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2009, 12:31:16 PM »
Any photos????

Anthony Fowler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 01:44:29 PM »
I'm am out of the loop and know nothing about the changes.  Is there a good article that outlines the work?

I am really sad about number 7.  I have never played the course, but I was really looking forward to playing that hole at some point in my life.  Tiger, can you explain the changes on 7?

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 02:05:21 PM »
Tiger, sorry I didn't make it out there....may try for this afternoon.

Anthony Fowler -- seven was changed as follows....grass bunkers/mounds on the right side of the hole were eliminated.  Green was moved back about 18 yds.  The 3-tiered green that was added in the early 70's was changed to a 2-tier green.

Not sure why any of the above would make anyone sad.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 02:06:13 PM »
Pat Finlen is the superintendent.  :)
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 07:07:28 PM »
Tiger -

Anyway, what's the distance you guys played #8?  I've heard a variety of numbers for what the plan is going to be for the regular Blue tees... everything from 145 to 165 to 185.  If it's 145 that would be great (still pretty much in tune with the idea of a shortish par 3, although #15 is now the "Short" hole)... 165 would be fine since the shot is no longer blind... 185 would be my least preferred as it would make it 3 of the 4 par-3's long irons. 

I guess I'll find out tomorrow or Sunday, but would love to hear your input on it.  Anyone else play it yet?

WW


Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 08:24:27 PM »
You have to be kidding?  This thread is a joke, correct?

The work done is one of the worst desecrations EVER on a classic golf course.  It's an embarressment to the Olympic Club and a disgrace to classic architecture.

I have pictures and plan to post a hole by hole comparison including historical photos in the coming weeks.

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 10:41:33 PM »
This could get good.
Benham..... in or out?


It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2009, 11:49:13 AM »

Benham..... in or out?



A Double-Double, Animal Style ....
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2009, 11:58:18 AM »

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2009, 01:43:20 PM »
I look forward to comments from those who have played the course since the re-opening.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Jim Nugent

Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2009, 03:02:22 PM »
Tiger, sorry I didn't make it out there....may try for this afternoon.

Anthony Fowler -- seven was changed as follows....grass bunkers/mounds on the right side of the hole were eliminated.  Green was moved back about 18 yds.  The 3-tiered green that was added in the early 70's was changed to a 2-tier green.

Not sure why any of the above would make anyone sad.

After going to the Tour Championship at Olympic in 1993/94, I thought #7 was one of the best short par 4's I'd ever seen.  When I heard they were changing the hole, I was baffled.  Why change a masterpiece?

Does the new technology make the hole too much a pushover for top players? 

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2009, 04:36:22 PM »
After going to the Tour Championship at Olympic in 1993/94, I thought #7 was one of the best short par 4's I'd ever seen.  When I heard they were changing the hole, I was baffled.  Why change a masterpiece?

It was changed in the early 70's when the three-tier green was put in...did that change help make it a masterpiece to you?  Did you like the grass bunkers/mounds in the right side rough? 

Quote
Does the new technology make the hole too much a pushover for top players? 

No, based on play in the Junior Am and the US Am it is still a challenge to hit the green from the tee, so many/most still lay short.  Uphill, 290 yds in the seaside air is still worth something.  But players were putting it on the green back in the Tour Championship years (I saw Nick Price do it) so it has always been reachable off the tee.  It is less than 20 yds longer now from the tips.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2009, 07:11:18 PM »
Let me preface this by saying that I love everything about Olympic, including the Lake course, which I've had the pleasure of playing a few times.  I also know very little about the history of the Lake course, and thus how the recent changes might or might not fit into the original design/history, etc.  Having said all that, I've never walked away from a round there thinking there was no room for improvement; put differently, I can easily imagine how well-done changes could improve an already terrific course.  Unfortunately I have no plans to be on the West Coast anytime soon, so I very much look forward to some before and after pics.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 09:34:45 PM by Carl Nichols »

Gib_Papazian

Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2009, 03:39:11 PM »
Gentlemen,

In the interest of full disclosure, I have not played the new permutation, nor closely studied the work beyond #7 & 8. Thus, my views must be taken with a pillar of salt - which is what Sam Whiting would turn into if alive to see the graffiti inflicted on his creation.

I am not here to bash Bill Love and feel that the golf course is far better than it was ten years ago due to tree removal and vastly improved turfgrass conditioning.

However, I strongly object to how those two holes were reconfigured in terms of aesthetic and practical flow. It appears to me that Bill Love took the safe way out (read: cowardice) and created something that is neither fish nor foul (pun not intended because it is no laughing matter).

Bile accumulates. I fear the raters will spew us from their mouths.   

Moving the 7th green back such a short distance really did not accomplish much. The new two-tier putting surface looks much like it did when I was young except about a third larger, which defeats the purpose of a challenging short par-4.

The green-to-tee walk is clumsy, awkward and the multi-tiered boxes on #8 are hopelessly out of proportion with the rest of the feature work on the golf course. Just a completely overblown, garish, overdone and overly long whiff that destroys the Chi’ of that corner of the property.

Golf course redesign work needs first and foremost to be sensitive and elegant. Bill Love’s work is all function and painfully bereft of form. Now, once every 12 years or so, we will have a U.S. Open tee box available so the gallery can watch how the pro’s handle 265 yard par-3.

In exchange for this, our club has been presented with an enormous pile of manure so far out of context that it makes the abomination we built to replace our 12th tee look reasonable. No wonder we have fallen in the rankings! With razor thin margins for error, all it requires is a couple of thoughtless gaffes to boot a golf course down the dark well of the 2nd tier wannabes.

Sadly, I doubt we will ascend back to the pantheon in my lifetime.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 05:12:59 PM by Gib Papazian »

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2009, 06:16:56 PM »
I too have yet to play the redo, and plan to on Friday.  Will try and provide some unbiased, objective reviews after then. 

with that said, I've been out to the club a 3 times since the reopening and have watched play at the new 7-8 arrangement and a number of things (many of which have been said here before) stood out

1. The new 2-tier #7 green looks interesting from afar and seems to provide more pin options... that's a plus.  I find Gib's comment interesting about it's size being out of context for a short par 4 and look forward to seeing that for myself.
2. I watched about 12 groups over the course of three days, and the walk from #7 green to #8 tee took an average of 2 minutes, where all of the other green-to-tee walks probably take no more than 15 seconds (excluding 5 green - 6 tee).  And, let's not even bring up the roller-coaster tracks of cart-paths that we've installed here... it looks like a frickin' go-cart track.
3. The mulitple tee boxes on 8, as well as 5 and 12 look great if this were Wente Vineyards or Stone Tree, or El Fra Diavlo Grande & Preserve GC, or whatever CCFAD you want.  They have no place at Olympic - especially the cozy and clautrophobic (i mean that in the very best of ways) Lake Course.  They look absolutely ridiculous and present an unnecessary cost to maintain.
4. I also hear there's a new tee on #7 that's tucked back and to the left now creating dog-leg left tee shot.  Not sure if and when this tee will be used,  but what the f*** is this?
5. Gib, you brought up an interesting point about the improved turf condition now that air and light can circulaion due to the removal of a number of trees.  And, still the course retains its aura… tight, tree-lined, claustrophic (I mean this with the best of intentions).  I love that one can stand out back of the club house (by the Domino practice area) and watch from one’s left to right, players teeing off on #4, playing #8, putting out on #7, teeing off on #9, and finishing up on #18.  Plus you can see clear through the property.  However, those days are numbered as trees – and lots of them – are being replanted in areas that will once again choke off needed sun and circulation.

I frankly care little about the rankings, and feel that some of the changes will make the course better (i.e. new putting surfaces [I know there are some here that disagree with this], new green on #15, and resloped green on #18.  However, I think those changes on 7 and especially 8 do nothing and actually alter the overall “vibe” of the course.

And, Gib I suspect that if you plan to live at least another 20 years we’ll be having a meeting out there then to discuss ondoing these changes and taking the course back to the original design intent.

With that said, I might have a completely different view after actually playing it in 2 days.

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2009, 06:37:41 PM »
Will try and provide some unbiased, objective reviews after then. 

All golf course reviews are subjective, that's what makes them interesting.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2009, 11:40:15 PM »
I'll be out there tomorrow to play as many holes as I can.  Report to follow.  Will have a stopwatch to time my walk from 7 green to 8 tee.  2 minutes is the reported average...who wants to take sides on the over/under?

 :)
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2009, 12:49:11 AM »
I'm goning with the under....aren't you a speed walker or something?   ;D

tlavin

Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2009, 10:44:16 AM »
Reading Gib's comments just kills me, because Olympic Club is one of America's golf treasures.  To harm its overall aesthetic is a crime against more than agronomy...

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2009, 01:55:35 PM »
what was also kinda funny, is that on more than one occassion, i saw someone putt out on 7 and then instinctively walk off the back of thre green and turn right towards the old #8 tee. 

Isn't there some saying about amputees who can still feel their throbbing limb even though it's no longer there?

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2009, 05:20:16 PM »
Here is a preview.  This is the new sodded green on the 7th hole.  This was previously the famous 3 tier green named one of the top 500 holes in the world.  Does it look like a 1927 golf course?


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2009, 06:23:13 PM »
Joel S. -

As an OC member for 30 years and someone who has attended every major event there beginning with Crosby winning the US AM in 1981, I must confess I am perplexed by your rather quixotic quest to portray and seemingly campaign for the Lake Course to be worthy of a restoration/replication of its so-called classic or golden-age appearance.

1) What makes you so sure that it was a better course then (80 years ago) than it is now?
2) Do any of the greens today on the Lake Course look as they did in 1927?
3) Is it not a fact that the present status, reputation and legend of the Lake Course is a result how the course has appeared, how it has played and the events it has hosted over the past 55 or so years, the "modern era" of the course so to speak?
4) If the course was restored to its circa 1925-35 appearance, wouldn't the course look radically different than how it has looked over the past 55 years? Wouldn't the tree-lined fairways, the very hallmark of the course, for most part be eliminated?

You may very well be right. But my guess is that if you took the Lake Course back to its classic/golden-age version, Fleck, Hogan, Coe, Casper, Simpson, Janzen and Knost  (as well as Hogan, Palmer, Watson, etc.) would hardly recognize the place. 

Since I (and I suspect the vast majority of those alive who have played and/or seen the Lake Course) don't know what the classic version of the course looked like, please tell of why you think that was a better course. Thanks.

DT
         

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Grand Opening Olympic Lake
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2009, 08:25:09 PM »
Dave:  See your PM.

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