[Cliff Hamm]

In New England glad to see Triggs get mentioned.  I view Triggs and Shennecossett as comparable. One can argue which is better but in any case Shenny should be listed... Is George Wright in good enough condition to be ranked so highly?   On the Cape I prefer Captain's to the previously mentioned Cranberry  Valley.  Also, Green Mountain in Killington, Vermont deserves recognition.

[Tim Pitner]

17. Aspen Golf Club  Aspen, Colo.     This is very surprising to me. I've never played it. Numerous drive-bys led me to believe this was a flat, boring, uninteresting etc. course. Am I wrong?

Doug,

No. 17 is way too high, but Aspen GC is not as boring as it may appear from the street.  As Steve said, it does have some interesting greens, it has a bit of quirk and the mountain views are nice.  You also can't beat it's location--right in the heart of Aspen.  Full disclosure--I'm a little biased since my partner and I won a 20-team shootout at a member-guest at Aspen, but it's worth playing.  It's not worth the near $100 green fee, however.

I'm surprised Breckenridge didn't make the list.  I'm not its biggest fan, but it's clearly above Aspen.

[Garland Bayley]

I am beginning to think that Golfweek raters are more interested in access than in rating munis.

Barney

[Eric Morrison]

It's too bad we didn't make this list...think we are good enough...not sure what the rating criteria was...

[Anthony Gray]

I am beginning to think that Golfweek raters are more interested in access than in rating munis.

Barney

  Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......They can hear you.

  Anthony

[Cliff Hamm]

It's too bad we didn't make this list...think we are good enough...not sure what the rating criteria was...

Eric, as you can see from my previous comment I totally agree.  Rankings are always arbitrary, but if Triggs is going to be #22 Shenny must be in the top 50. I enjoy both and if had to rank would say they are different but comparable designs. Triggs more parkland, Shenny more links like.... Conditioning is clearly in favor of Shenny  as well as ambiance and friendliness of the staff.   

[Tim Leahy]

What about Brookside or Santa Anita in LA?

Is the Presidio in SF a muni?

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

The definition of muni's can be rather general -- such as taxpayer-owned courses.

Or the more narrow version -- those owned and operated by a locality - likely a city / town or county entity.

Tim P:

Aspen is a fine layout in certain respects -- but the quality of other Colorado public courses has clearly risen the bar since
then. For it to be rated #17 in the nation is a major leap in dreaming. Just goes to show you that certain courses benefit because of their locale and the folks who regularly visit such places.

Steve:

Just a small correction buckeroo -- I like Neshanic Valley but it's not among the top 20 courses in NJ as Digest mentioned. You have a few public courses in the Garden State that get far little attention compared to NV -- try Twisted Dune as a one clear example. If you want a sleeper public course try something like Sea Oaks just minutes from the LBI area as another example.

Steve, keep in mind, Digest also saw fit to include the likes of The Ridge at Back Brook as #6 , and also included that famed layout Shoregate at #20 In my mind, Neshanic Valley would be hard pressed to crack the state's top ten public given the sheer range of quality layouts that exist now. Just a quick reminder -- I do like the place just no where near as much as you do.

Aspen is a fine layout -- but you should head over to Delta, CO and play the muni called Devil's Thumb Rick Phelps created there. The totality of the course -- not just the greens alone are well worth seeing / playing when there -- ditto the very reasonable fees. Let me also point out that the town-owned layout called Rochelle Ranch in Rawlins, WY is also a solid muni layout -- although they have encountered some serious turf issues that are being rectified now.

Congrats on your winning the town title -- of course -- that has nothing to do with your praise of the layout.

[Bruce Katona]

Matt Ward: I've not been there in a few years, but Flanders Valley (Morris County, NJ Park Commission) had ranked very highly in the past.  Are the turf conditions or course not up to what the current raters and golfing public looking for?

[Brad Tufts]

Good to see George Wright in Boston getting some love. 

If only that place had some serious $$ behind it, it could compete with the other top Boston privates easily.

They have a number of GREAT holes at GW.

I somehow doubt it's place, but it's a solid layout.

[Jaeger Kovich]

New Englanders... I understand that you question of not having Shennecosset on the list, but I'm not so surprised it didn't make it. The 3 new holes #15-17, just dont quite seem to cut it with the rest. #10 is one of the coolest holes I have ever seen, but overall there is a good amount of work that needs to be done about drainage and bunker renovations as I have heard Eric the super admit in person.... Would you really play Shen over Richter Park?

[Kalen Braley]

It was good to see Utah have some good representation on this list. Another local course that should be on this list is South Mountain in Draper.  Its easily as good or better than either The Hideout or Wingpointe.  Sounds like I need to make a small trip over to Soldier Hollow and do a course review on the Gold course.

Edit: Oops Murphy Creek did make the list, was throw by the Homestead part

Richard,

I've never played anything in Western WA, but Indian Canyon is very deserving IMO.  Over the years I've been fortunate to play some very nice courses and I'd put the greens at Indian Canyon up against anything I've played. Sure the course lacks fairway bunkering, but makes up for it in undulation.  Its hands down the finest course I've played for under $30.

[Richard Choi]

Its hands down the finest course I've played for under $30.

I don't argue with that, but do you think it is a better course than the Olympic course?

[Matt_Ward]

Bruce:

Flanders Valley benefited from having served as host to both the Men's and Women's Public Links events from years ago. Morris County Park Commission has also done a fine job over the years with what it offers to its residents and those who opt to play there. However, the bar for quality taxpayer-owned golf is not the singular domain of such places today. Frankly, Monmouth County in NJ has the best overall collection of such taxpayer-owned courses -- places like Hominy Hill, Howell Park, Charleston Springs, etc, etc.

If you need a sleeper that's worth mentioning in NJ in the muni side of things -- McCullough's Emerald Links just outside AC would be a good choice.

Kalen:

I've played the Gold at SH and it's good -- just not worthy of national acclaim from the ones I've played. I didn't know South Mountain is owned by the town of Draper?

Kalen, I too like Indian Canyon but it's more a celebration of yesteryear than 2009. I mentioned the likes of what Rick Phelps did with Devil's Thumb in Delta, CO -- has the same low price structure and the design details. Indian Canyon is a fine layout but the bar for quality "muni" golf has certainly risen since it's high mark days of yesteryear.

In regards to The Hideout the issue is really getting quality turf on a consistent basis. The layout is there but the conditioning element has to be factored. I like the course but it's far too high now IMHO.

Jaeger:

Just an opinion -- but Richter Park is vastly overrated when a national poll is considered. It may be one of CT's best public but candidly the place has simply drifted back in the pack from the others nationwide I have played. Don't mean to trash the place -- it is good -- but the bar has risen considerably since the course first opened years ago.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I am proud to state that I have played more on this list than any of the other Top 100 lists.  The one course I think is missing is Swope Memorial in Kansas City, Mo.

Has anyone else on this site played Swope?  If so, am I nuts to consider this course a worthy addition among the Golfweek list?

[J Sadowsky]

Glad to see Laurel Hill - in my view, the best public in the DC area (tied with Bulle Rock) now that Beechtree is NLE - so high.  The only problem is that Fairfax County seems to have considered this more of an investment than a place for locals to play golf at fair prices.  I would like to see a list of "true" municiaplities - golf that is subsidized or at least not profitable in relationship to in-jurisdiction residents.

[Kalen Braley]

Richard,

I haven't played Olympic, so I really can't compare it, but I do think Indian Canyon is very deserving.  IMO, IC is what this category should be all about...high quality layout, interesting holes throughout, great greens, undulating fairways, reachable 5s and 4's, and dirt cheap to play.

Matt,

South Mountain is owned by Salt Lake County and would certainly seem to qualify in the muni category as I understand it. As for the Hiedout, I only played it once and maybe I got lucky, but the course was in terrific shape.

No doubt these kind of lists can be questionable, but I think the exposure is good for the state of Utah in general. I've yet to travel anywhere that has such a big selection of quality public courses that are very inexpensive and easy to get tee times for.  Even most folks here have no clue how good they have it.

And this leads me to another huge factor that should be considered which is cost.  Yes I know other areas of the country have a much finer selection of public courses then here, but at what price?  Outside of Thanksgiving Point, I can play every other course here in peak season for less than $50, and most of those for less than $30.  Where else in the US do you have 15-20 quality public layouts within a 35 - 40 mile radius than can compare with these prices?

[Matt_Ward]

Kalen:

No doubt the Beehive State does offer plenty in terms of the affordable side of things. The same can be said of a few other mountain time zone srtates as I have mentioned many times before.

Kalen, the issue of price should not be dismissed -- but let's be a bit more forthcoming -- Utah doesn't have a slew of "must" play public courses -- I define "must" play as public layouts worthy of a drive over 250 miles to visit. TP is a solid layout -- but the costs are higher. Sand Hollow, another superb layout, is also much higher than the numbers you mentioned.

When you say "quality" layouts you have to understand that the ceiling for "quality" is far higher in other areas of the USA -- especially in the area of depth of courses that clearly exceed what Utah has now. Don't get me wrong - I am a huge proponent of mountain time zone golf -- but it's ascendancy, while clearly noticeable, is only slowly penetrating the highest of ratings.

Utah is clearly making strides -- but the state is still behind the likes of Colorado and New Mexico, to name just two border states that have far greater depth and relatively modest fees.

[Steve Lapper]

Gents:

The definition of muni's can be rather general -- such as taxpayer-owned courses.

Or the more narrow version -- those owned and operated by a locality - likely a city / town or county entity.

Tim P:

Aspen is a fine layout in certain respects -- but the quality of other Colorado public courses has clearly risen the bar since
then. For it to be rated #17 in the nation is a major leap in dreaming. Just goes to show you that certain courses benefit because of their locale and the folks who regularly visit such places.

Steve:

Just a small correction buckeroo -- I like Neshanic Valley but it's not among the top 20 courses in NJ as Digest mentioned. You have a few public courses in the Garden State that get far little attention compared to NV -- try Twisted Dune as a one clear example. If you want a sleeper public course try something like Sea Oaks just minutes from the LBI area as another example.

Steve, keep in mind, Digest also saw fit to include the likes of The Ridge at Back Brook as #6 , and also included that famed layout Shoregate at #20 In my mind, Neshanic Valley would be hard pressed to crack the state's top ten public given the sheer range of quality layouts that exist now. Just a quick reminder -- I do like the place just no where near as much as you do.

Aspen is a fine layout -- but you should head over to Delta, CO and play the muni called Devil's Thumb Rick Phelps created there. The totality of the course -- not just the greens alone are well worth seeing / playing when there -- ditto the very reasonable fees. Let me also point out that the town-owned layout called Rochelle Ranch in Rawlins, WY is also a solid muni layout -- although they have encountered some serious turf issues that are being rectified now.

Congrats on your winning the town title -- of course -- that has nothing to do with your praise of the layout.

I wrestle my digits with tension saying this , but I'll mostly agree with you. Yes, NV is behind a Twisted Dune in any list, but for any reasonable definition of "muni," it deserves considerable mention in the Garden State.

The Digest raters are on drugs (and certainly not the right kind!)

My past record of city and county championship's at their respective venues have EVERYTHING to do with my praise (AGC's greens are still really good, tough and enjoyable!!)

[Eric Morrison]

That is why I asked my initial question. If the rating criteria takes into account that we are not 100% Ross then oh well...can't change that. I have not played Triggs, but from what people tell me that have played both there and here, most think we are comparable. Richter is a good course always in good shape...does that mean its better? Our design is stronger, IMHO. My intial thought as I started to scroll the list was that if Wintonbury was 8, we should make the list. My 2 cents. Again, back to the question...what consitutes best in ones eyes.

[Jeff Spittel]

Always nice to see Memorial Park get its due. Fun, plenty of challenge from the tips, three holes where you get to ogle tasty female joggers, walkable and the deliciousness that is Beck's Prime awaits you after your round.

[Kalen Braley]

Matt,

I already conceded that Utah doesn't have many top notch publics...but the question really is one of value.  Would most people rather pay $250-$300 for a fantastic course (Doak 7-9) or $30 for a good one (Doak 4-6). In my mind the latter is a much better value proposition especially when you look at the logisitcs of what one usually has available to play in thier local area.

I get that people go on trips to places like Monterey, Bandon, etc where they have a delightful feast of top notch daily fees, but they still play most rounds at home and having a solid array of 15-20 tracks near home that won't break the bank is a big plus. This is where Northern Utah wins hands down over any other place I've been to.  That being said I've played little beyond the Western US, so as GCA.com has members in just about every golf market in the US, if there anywhere else that compares to here? 

Here are the qualifications:

1)  15-20 good courses within a 40 mile radius (mostly Doak 4 and 5s with a couple of 6's)
2)  Almost all under $50 to play in peak season, with vast majority of those being under $30.

[Matt_Ward]

Kalen:

Hold the phone amigo -- this thead is about the "best" muni's -- not just those that excel from the standpoint of value alone.

To answer your question -- people make those kind of choices each day. If forced to choose for one round of golf between say a South Mountain in Draper and a Pacific Dunes in Oregon - the answer is obvious.

In regards to repeat play there are alternatives in many parts of the county that won't break one's wallet. The issue on this thread is about the best of the best. Utah is rising in the category of public golf but it's still a youngster in that regard. If you want to see other states that have done well in having superior muni style golf -- check out the several solid layouts that the town of Aurora, CO provides to its residents. One of the very best in the USA -- ditto what Colorado and to a lesser extent New Mexico are doing.

The Denver area easily meets what you mentioned -- plenty of quality options. One can also throw in plenty of the public layouts in and around the Chicago area.

And, until recently, the NY public golf market place would meet your criteria -- this still is the case for New York residents who can access all of the layouts at Bethpage and one can throw in a variety of other Island related standouts like Sunken Meadow and Montauk Downs.

Let me know what Doak rating you give South Mountain -- if you think it's a 6 then you are being very generous in your assessment. I'd give SM no more than a solid 4. I like TP plenty in Lehi -- but it would be fortunate to grab a 6 Doak rating number. Sand Hollow in St. George has the possibility in being rated higher than TP -- but again it would be

Kalen, I don't doubt that creating a guide for the best muni golf UNDER $50 would be rather interesting. But it would automatically rule out plenty of places where quality golf offerings are just a tad beyond that theshold for consideration. The point on this thread was that Golfweek was not limiting muni's because of costs -- simply rating the best ones.

[Kalen Braley]

Matt,

Fine enough...the only point I was trying to make in my 1st point was its good to see Utah being recognized for some of its layouts.

As for the cost/value part that is clearly something I inserted...and only maintain that it should be a criteria any time a list of muni's is being made.  After all, isn't that one of GCA.com's main tenets.... promoting inexpensive and quality golf?

In the meantime I shall try to get over to Soldier Hollow Gold soon and do a write up on the course with pics.

P.S. By definition, i would rate South Mountain between 5.5-6....either way, still rounds up to 6.

[Richard Choi]

If you are talking about value, Alabama is light years ahead of Utah. RTJ Trails was funded by the State Pension Fund and it might as well be muni.

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