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Patrick_Mucci

A neat dilema
« on: May 23, 2009, 11:16:34 PM »
I recently played a par 5 with an interesting configuration.

The hole is relatively short, plays uphill but usually with a prevailing wind.

The hole can be reached in two.

But, the fairway in the DZ cants right to left.
On the left side of the DZ, in the rough and fairway, is a significant fairway bunker.
The bunker gets fed by the surrounding fairway.
The bunker is relatively deep with a high berm face.

If the golfer uses a driver the bunker is clearly in play.
If the golfer uses less than a driver, the bunker isn't in play for most good golfers.

Balls hit into the bunker can't be advanced very far.
However, they can be advanced far enough to bring the green into play for the third shot, if the golfer is fortunate enough to have his ball in the middle of the fairly narrow bunker.
I've seen MANY bunker shots hit the face of the bunker or berm, leaving the ball in the bunker or steep face of the berm.

Drives hit into the bunker can make 5, but, more often then not, scores of 6 and more are the norm.

The fairway is fairly wide, at least 40 yards.

So, do you challenge the bunker in hopes of getting home in two, or, do you lay back, taking the bunker out of play, but, in doing so, removing getting home in two as a possibility ?

In addition, as the hole progresses to the green the fairway gets narrower and the uphill lies more treacherous.
The rough is very difficult

It's a good risk reward hole.

Yet, I've never seen one golfer lay back with their drives.

Perhaps because most/all of the rounds I've witnessed were at match play.

At Medal play, the bunker becomes even more threatening.

How many par 5's have that configuration and risk reward off the tee and for the second shot ?

Bill_McBride

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Re: A neat dilema
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 11:18:45 PM »
Not enough for sure!

Where does this hole fall in the round?  This could affect strategy even in match play.

Mark_F

Re: A neat dilema
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 11:31:12 PM »
Patrick,

Sounds similar in some respects to a hole at Ashridge golf club on the outskirts of London. 

It's on the front nine, if I remember correctly, and features a similar driving dilemma as yours, although I don't recall the hole being uphill as you describe.  It's a really neat, clever little hole.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A neat dilema
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2009, 09:39:36 PM »
Not enough for sure!

Where does this hole fall in the round?  This could affect strategy even in match play.


Bill,

It's the 9th hole.

However, originally, it was the 18th hole.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A neat dilema
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 03:27:04 PM »
DSchmidt,

The fairways are very generous, thus you can draw/hook the ball, provided you don't get too close to the bunker.

However, the closer to the bunker you are, the better the angle of attack into the green.

It's really a neat risk/reward hole.

RJ_Daley

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Re: A neat dilema
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 04:12:36 PM »
How far out is the low left side bunker on the FW that cants right to left and has a sizable gathering circumference?  Is it more than 240 from member- regular tees?   Can a fellow that only hits it 225-240 hit a fade into the hill and stay up from the canted right to left FW and not go in the bunker?  I like the description, and the narrowing of the FW for second.  I'm guessing for a player that hits it 235 on tee ball, there is 250-60 more left for the second; is that about right.  I think it is a no brainer.  Either hit three wood if you only hit it 210-20 off tee and hit it again to about 100-120 layup.  Or if you don't hit it that far with driver, go ahead... 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tony Ristola

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Re: A neat dilema
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2009, 05:23:30 PM »
Hit driver when you're flushing it, and hit a hybrid/fairway wood/long iron to layup when you're not.

I think it would be an interesting match play hole.

I like the idea of really making the tee shot critical; the further you play from the bunker (would need a wide fairway) or layup, you won't get home in two.

.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 05:25:23 PM by Tony Ristola »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A neat dilema
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 09:06:43 PM »
RJ,

I'll measure the distances the next time I visit, which should be some time this week.

Tony,

Why wouldn't it be the reverse, hit driver when you're not flushing it and 3-wood when you are ?

The other neat aspect of the hole is the right to left slope of the fairway near the green, thus, approaches hit from the right side of the DZ are going to be subject to a ground hook since incoming shots from the far right of the DZ fairway are coming in at an angle where the slope of the fairway short of the green will give them a turbo boost sharply to the left, making it very difficult for all but the extremely long or lucky to hit that green from the right side of the DZ.

The green slopes back to front and it also has an upper tier.  Both the upper and lower tier slope back to front.

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