"2) LLoyd already owned the land through HDC, they could have blasted away any time they wanted once they determined this is where the holes were going...and the fact that LLoyd was the key to approving the idea further supports an earlier timing...prior to the December transfer to LLoyd/MCCGC from LLoyd/HDC..."
Sully:
Lloyd did NOT own the land untill Dec, 21, 1911 and in case you're as dense as Moriarty seems to be THAT date that lloyd actually owned the land (Dec. 19, 1910) is AFTER Nov, 15, 1910. That essentially means one generally does NOT blast the top off of a quarry ONE DOES NOT ACTUALLY OWN!!!
Tom,
I was under the assumption that HDC owned the Johnson farm well before December 1910...is this correct?
I was also told, by you, that LLoyd recapitalized HDC to the tune of approximately $300,000 early on...is this still a fact? When did he do that? Surely the paperwork that told you he did it had a date on it...
I am looking for one reason why this entire project wasn't engineered through HGL from 1909 on but through veiled entities and individuals so as not to be too transparent and haven't found one yet.
This is the basis for all of my curiosities on here that make it, among other things, preposterous for me to believe that in November 1910 the Site Committee presented a proposal to the membership seeking funds for 117 acres of difficult to deal with land if they didn't know pretty well where they were going to put the golf holes...
My theory: Pure speculation, which should fit in good here, but I'm curious if it can be disproven.
1) Lloyd takes the reins on behalf of Merion Cricket, in an intentionally informal/covert effort to find land for a new golf course.
2) Lloyd works with a syndicate of developers on a business plan which will identify a large plot of land usable for golf and homes.
3) The developers identify the ~340 acres being discussed and purchase, or option it, in one or several transactions and identify a desired return on investment.
4) Lloyd identifies the total price the golf club will be able to pay for its golf course before determining the amount of land needed.
5) Once the course boundaries are pretty well identified, they measure the land to 117 acres and divide out the per acre price...which dictates the per acre price for the developers land so they can make their profit.
6) The other individuals involved in the Site search and Contruction committees saw the land the golf course used for many months in advance of the November 15 meeting, the December 19 transfer to MCCGC and especially the formal establishment of the "Construction Committee"...or whatever its name was.
It is perfectly reasonable to go through the legal hoops they did, it is perfectly unreasonable, in my opinion to assume that is all that happened as well as exactly when it all happened.
Tom and Mike,
You have chastised me, among others for timing the Francis Land Swap prior to 11/15/1910 because they didn't own the land yet and who would blast up a quarry they didn't own? He said the Quarryman was up there..."within a couple of days"...well Tom, if you're going to tell me the Thompson resolution was the Francis Land Swap and they didn't yet have approval from the club and we are going to lay out this timeline on facts alone then we have to assume the board had not yet approved the swap and so they certainly wouldn't have wasted their time and money blasting away if they might not get approval.
Anyway, if you all are going to choose to end th econversation as opposed to acting like adults I guess that's fine...just unfortunate.