Rustic Canyon course profile is posted

[Ran Morrissett]

As you make your way through it,  remember: this course is open to the public, costs $30 to play on the weekday and $40 on the weekends.  

This world class design costs 15% of what many "upscale" courses cost yet will future magazine rankings celebrate that fact or write it off as a crowded public course north of LA?

Match play against Bethpage Black, I've got it winning 1 up by virtue of taking the last hole. Bethpage is harder but for strategic options, short game interest, and short par fours, this design is far superior.

Hopefully, Hanse, Wagner and Shackelford will get full recognition for this marvelous design - affordable golf that every skill level player will enjoy playing time and time again is what golf architecture is about, right?

Courtesy of Geoff and Tommy, I hope to add several more photos over the weekend (including an aerial one from the rim of the canyon).

Cheers,

[Paul Turner]

Ran

Thanks!  One up for the public golfer!

It looks superb, lovely and low profile.

[THuckaby2]

put my comments in the course section... included one typo correction - sorry, Ran - couldn't help it.  INCREDIBLE write-up in any case, maybe best ever.  Well done.  

TH

[GeoffreyC]

Ran

Great job as usual for your course profile.  I enjoyed Rustic Canyon immensely.  If I lived in the area I would certainly seek to play it regularly.

However, I think you do both Rustic Canyon and Bethpage a disservice to compare them as you attempt to do.  The only common feature they share is they are available for public play.  They are a different genre of golf course and remember that the Bethpage complex has four other enjoyable courses for a "fun" round of golf.  The black course is a great classic design and one that I have argued for years as Tillinghast's best work tee to green.  It is a classic design that has stood the test of golfers for 65 years. It was designed as a "championship" golf course for skilled golfers and it is about as good at that as you could hope for.

I absolutely loved each of Gil's courses I have played including Craighead, Inniscrone, Applebrook and Rustic Canyon.  His group can't be beat for sensitive and accurate restorations of a whole varieties of styles from Tillinghast to Ross to Alison. Rustic Canyon will find its place as a superior golf course and even with a bit more recognition, the beginning of a new era of public golf, however, its not yet Bethpage Black. I never did buy into your match play comparisons of golf courses with holes compared as they fall on the course.

[Ran Morrissett]

Geoffrey,

Your allegiance to a course with bland greens and no short par fours is admirable  

I compare the two only because Bethpage is the rarest of all breeds - a busy public course whose virtues are so outstanding that it refuses not to be compared in a favorable light against most of the private courses on star-studded Long Island.

Rustic Canyon deserves the same treatment, which is the point that I was trying to make - I would HATE to see it categorized as "a great public course."

Like Bethpage, it's a "great course" full stop.

Cheers,  

[GeoffreyC]

Ran

Thank you- In that light I heartily concur. Why didn't you say it that way in the first place  

[THuckaby2]

Ran:  unfortunately, courses like Bethpage and Rustic are always going to have the word "public" inserted when compared to "great" courses.  That's a fact of life.  I don't consider it demeaning or find any negative connotation myself.  To me it's just a way of defining where a course falls and what access is available.  

Given that in any ranking list the VAST majority of course are indeed private, this is just a very natural distinction.  What's the highest ranked truly public course?  How many are in any top 100?

Fact of life.  Nothing wrong with it at all.

TH

[George_Williams]

Ran-

Great write-up.  Does this $30/$40 fee structure include cart?  Probably not, right?  Are there cart paths?  If there are, the photos do a nice job of hiding them.  Do you know if the greens were built with the native , sandy soils or were material(s) imported?

[RJ_Daley]

Excellent write-up Ran.  You have really given fine description to the strengths of the golf course design and explained the variety of strategies and challenges.  The 12th hole in many ways represents the subtlty that is incorporated throughout the entire course.  One marvels at seeing an endlessly wide fairway nearly making one yawn and then the absolute cleverness of the green simply spread over the ground without traditional green surrounds shaping, only to find on approach and being on the green that it has as much diversity of stategy setting up the drive to second shot as a green that would have been traditionally formed from landscape/grading starting 100 yards away.  I hope I am getting my meaning across.  

Quality never goes out of style, and I feel it is of no consequence that some fret that California golfers "won't get it".  There are so darn many people in that market that if only a tiny fraction of the playing public "get it" the course will be in constant demand.  I frankly can not see how the initial price structure can stand up, no matter what the input of the county parks department may be for keeping it a reasonably priced venue for the playing "public" to enjoy.  That is a noble cause that I truly hope they can maintain.  But, I fear that the fact that a huge market exists and the course is so unique and favoring repeat play, that market forces will take over and the price will rise to comparable venues of the area. (Although I doubt there is a comparable to this design, only comparable as to the question of public access).  

I can't wait to someday actually play it as opposed to visit in the pre-grow-in stage and again the week before opening stage.  It was truly amazing for me to see the quality of the grow-in over just 8 months!  

I only wonder if I ever make the 2500 mile trip again, if I'll find 3 other friends out there that I can gather to make the obligatory tee time reservation requirement for minimum 4some, or should I just make the trip of 2500 miles and worse fight the traffic to get there and sit around perhaps for days and "hope" a 4some has someone drop out

[David Kelly]

I played Rustic Canyon again today.  They don't count Friday as the weekend so it was $30 to walk.  They only charge $10 for a cart but the good news is that more than 1/2 the golfers were walking and it was not a young crowd out there.  They put a single with our threesome and he was the only single on the waiting list.  10 minute tee intervals.

They have added red white and blue yardage plates but they are a little below the ground so they are not conspicuous.  I have noticed some divots in the aprons around the greens particularly some pretty big ones in the swale left of the 5th green where people with a total lack of imagination have obviously been trying to hit flop shots to the green surface.  People are also not fixing ball marks as much on the aprons.

Whether people get it or not, they are very impressed with the course.  I have been talking to a lot of golfers out there and to a man the comments have all been favorable and the word 'fun' is used a lot.  However after the GCA outing as we were leaving one guy did drive up and ask Tommy_N and myself when they would be installing the trees.

[Mike_Cirba]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Rustic Canyon is the real deal, and it matters not a whit that the course is public or private.

The Old Course is public.  Does that diminish it in anyone's eyes?

Ran, the profile is excellent, and really captures the continual interest of the imaginative design in all of its subtly provocative and dramatically enjoyable glory.  

It probably says a lot about the course to say that we sandwiched the day at Rustic between rounds at PGA West Stadium, Riviera, and Los Angeles CC (North), and it certainly did not pale in comparison.  In fact, the playability and clever strategies were welcome contrasts, and I can only imagine that Los Angeles golfers will love it more and more each time they play it, whether they "get it" or not.

[Ran Morrissett]

David,

From your first visit to your last, did any particular impression of a hole or feature seem to change? Ddi you try and play any of the holes differently?

Mike,

One feature RC will never share with The Old Course is being closed for play on Sunday - wonder what the cumulative effect has been to TOC of that century old policy?

[TEPaul]

The cumulative effect of TOC being closed on Sunday for a century is a mountain of dog poop that's been scooped on the following Monday mornings. This is a process that has occured in the neighborhood of 5,214 times.

Those frugal Scots might call it fill and might just build another golf course out of it! We might call it something else!

It's possible that there might be some kind of environmental ramifications attached to this in which case I'd recommend Tom Fazio, undeniably the King of them all at solving environmental problems dealing with golf courses!

I don't know who Tom's best shapers are but if they don't jump at this job I would understand!

[David Kelly]

Ran,
A few things. For one the wind is very interesting - it just doesn't seem consistent.  Nothing on the first hole, there was a strong wind at our backs on 2, and on 3 it seemed to be kind of in our faces. And as you know these three holes play in the same direction.  This continued throughout the round as we encountered wind from every direction and in various strengths.

I had mentioned in the survey that my least favorite green was the 15th but playing it again it seemed better to me. In my mind I was thinking that it was a three level stairstep green but the green countours seemed less sharp and the green seemed more natural this time.

Misc. observations. As for strategy most of the pins were in the same position as the GCA outing.  One hole in which it was changed was the 13th where the pin was at the far left side of the boomerang.  This made the hole play much easier as any second shot placed on the left side of the fairway allowed a clear  runup to the pin. On 12 all four of us drove to within 80  yds of the green but only the golfer who had played the hole before came away with a par.  On 7 I drove to the right side fairway for the first time and was rewarded with a sand wedge second shot and a birdie.  Going for the right side fairway was made easier becuase the wind had shifted again and was at our backs even though the hole plays in the opposite direction of holes 1-3.

One definite change is that the blue tees on the 11th hole  are on the same tee box as the white and red tees so the hole plays at 391 yds and the angle from the tee is straight down the fairway. During the GCA outing the blue tees were on the black tee box and the hole played at 435 yds.  That is the way the hole should be played because of the cape hole effect on the tee shot. The hole loses a lot from the real blue tees.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I have just returned from my mistress' house. She's a beautiful, raw and nautral gal of a full body shape with twists, turns, curves and swells that makes a golf ball roll for hours on end.

I love this beauty and she is mine, all mine.

Yes, I am being selfish and so should all of SoCal. We have ourselves an honest to goodness golf course with teeth and fangs so big, that will swallow a person whole on a whim. This place is a real GOLF COURSE.

Rustic Canyon is not only getting tougher and tougher, but more fair. How could that be you ask? Play it more then once, you'll get the sharp point real quick, after taking double boogie on a short par 4 hole, where the weaker player playing next to you just birdied.

A few suggestions for those visiting Rustic Canyon:

-Follow the putts to the Regan Library. The VERY crooked line!
-Score well on all of the one shot holes.
-Hold-on for the fun and exasperating short par 4's/Hammer away on the long and equally strategic ones.
-Score well on al of the three shot holes.
-Find some way to distinguish exactly where the pin is on the putting surface. I have played this course five times now and still am totally decieved on every hole, especially holes 3,5,9,10,11,14,&18.
-If you miss the putting surface and happen on to one of the magnificent bent grass approaches, make sure that you get the next shot ether into the hole or right next to it. If you fail to do so, figure that double bogie is a good score and walk away to attack the next hole. Do not let it get to you! I have seen not only myself but many other talented golfers end up 10 feet past the pin with an even more harrowing putt to the hole.

To refute all of this nonsense about discriminating against singles and twosomes.....Today, we had two walk-ons join us who got to the course, walked into the clubhouse and the starter told them to get ready to play. Not only were they pretty good golfers, they also recognize how much Rustic Canyon is going to be a help to Southern California golf and maybe this will help future developers to come to grips with building more great courses without waterscape presentations, staff members to wash and kiss your behind, and multi-million dollar clubhouses that make little sense to the economics of public play, as well as not wanting to be in the conference center and catering business.

I'm the King of the World! (ruthlessly stolen from movie director James Cameron.)

I also want to note that I now have "closure" in regards to my ability to blame everyone but myself for all of my own mistakes on a golf course. Rustic Canyon has made me see the light.

[Mike_Cirba]

Ran,

Duly noted, but I believe you'd have to agree that there are MANY more similarities than differences between Rustic Canyon and The Old Course.  I can't think of too many courses I would say that about.

One important difference was pointed out by David Kelly in that the wind is ever-changing at RC.  Somehow, the canyon creates some type of whirlpool effect, and you can play two concurrent holes in the same direction and have a 15mph wind at your back on one, and 20mph against on the next.

Also, as Tommy notes, the "down-canyon" effect on putts and approaches is almost indiscernible visually, yet affect everything out there by almost 30% more than one could ever imagine.

Fascinating place for a golf course, and masterful job of architectually utilizing a property to its fullest potential.    

[David Kelly]

I played in the group behind Tommy today at RC and not only did he manage to play his round he also served as an informal caddie for UCLA head football coach Bob Toledo who was playing in front of him.  By the end of his round I think Toledo "got it".  

[Coral_Ridge]

A bucket of range balls - $5.00, an ice cold can of Arizona Ice Tea from the beverage cart - $3.00, a new golf course profile from golfclubatlas, priceless!

I enjoyed it very much and will make an effort to play Rustic Canyon if possible some day.  Great job.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Now if Toledo can "get it" when it comes to his quarterback situation!

[TEPaul]

I don't know Bob Toledo and I don't know his quarterback situation either but after Toledo played his second and third shots on #13 his quarterback situation has probably been solved now--ie, "100 wide fairway, obstacle right in middle, don't go there!!". UCLA do good 2002!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom Paul,
You will be glad to know that Coach Toledo achieved birdie on the 13th and the result was smile from ear to ear. He not only loved the hole, but was pretty impressed by the boomerang green. He had never seen anything like it beofre in his life, but what would you expect from someone who is a memeber at North Ranch CC. Just another award winning design by award winning golf architect and polka king Ted Robinson.

And yes Pat Mucci, I had to mention to him more then once that he WILL more then likely be seeing me across in the stands rooting against him in 2003 and 2004! (Three Cheers For Ol' Notre Dame!)

The similarities of play between Rustic Canyon and the Old Course are pretty errie, and I was waiting for someone else to make that observation before I was accused of being a shade too bold.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Also forgot to mention....

The new course record for Rustic Canyon is 68 shared by John Pate and Fred Couples.

From what I am told, they both had a blast playing it.

[TEPaul]

Never having played either maybe some of those who say so could explain why Rustic Canyon reminds them somehow of TOC. Particular holes maybe and why?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom, Once again, and taking this to a level of understanding.....The holes play with the same intent of style and challenge.

It would be like trying to figure out how a certain hole at Merion would play like something at the Old Course, when in reality, there really are not any holes resembling the Old Course, but there are many shots that are in fact similar or resemble strategically.

This is the way and method Merion was designed. It is all based on theory. (However you want to equate it.) Tonight in a conversation with David Kelly I mentioned to him how the green complex of the 10th at Riviera is reminescent of the same strategy that one would play a shot into the Road Hole.

Now, figuring, that both shots are entirely different they do present the same strategic challenge, only different lengths and in reverse of one another. Sort of like Pine Valley 12 & 13. You can even converse with friends playing behind you on some holes and watch their play!, It is very reminscent of the scene at 7,8,9,10,11&12 at the Old Course or even Amen Corner (holes 11,12,&13) and 15 & 16 at Augusta. Its a sort of open and connected feeling that makes you warm and fuzzy all over.

This is more then likely why each Raynor, Banks, and MacDonald "Redan" or "Alps" (etc.) plays with a differing character. Its all dependent of the site and how it is tune with old classic fundamentals of strategy and interest, especially when it was constructed!

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul/Tommy;

Since I think it was me who originally raised the comparison between Rustic and The Old Course, let me try to explain where I believe the similarities lie;

I'm not sure that it's any particular hole, but more the theme and atmosphere of the course in general, particularly the following features;

* Althought not a true "out and back" routing, in most places the course is two holes wide, and each nine has the distinct feeling of completing a loop.

* The fairways are enormously wide, with just the natural contour and man-made bunkering providing relief.

* The "blending" of adjacent fairways on a number of holes into one wide, playable expanse of short grass.

* There are almost no trees on the property, with an openness that provides visual expanses both along the length of the course as well as across to golfers on adjoining holes.

* Greens are similarly low-profile, deceptively shaped, generally large, and just use the existing terrain and significant undulations to create challenge .  In other words, like the Old Course, they seem to just flow out of the fairway and are simply mowed shorter.

* Short green to tee walks, with no real severe elevation changes.

* Fairway sand hazards are mostly all located "within" the fairway widths, including some smack dab in the center.

* Multiple options for lines of attack on nearly every hole.

* Many holes require challenging hazards to create a preferred angle for the subsequent shot.

* Dependent on hole location, approaches from the less than ideal spot are often semi-blind or minimally very awkward.

* Many holes require some carry over broken ground to reach the fairway, which sometimes can obscure or deceive the proper line from the tee.

* The low-lying native bushes and scrub which line many holes along only one side of the fairway have the same general look as gorse.

* The course benefits from ocean breezes, which often shift direction in sort of a whirlpool effect in the canyon.

* Water is not used as a hazard.

* Bunkers are deep, rugged, and penal.

* Even the fence that aligns the property is similarly spare and rustic, and plays an OB role on the par five 13th that is similar to 14 at TOC.  It also comes into play on the first three holes.

* A wide variety of hole lengths, including some very short par fours with severe greens.  

* The emphasis on creating playability for the ground game, as well as the variety of recovery possibiities (including some very intense ones) around the greens.

* Non-obvious strategies abound on many holes, and there is a variability in the design that would make each hole play wholly differently due to day-to-day factors such as wind direction, hole location, and the courage of the individual.