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Jeffrey Prest

  • Karma: +0/-0
Does this cut it as a par 5?
« on: April 29, 2009, 09:17:57 PM »
While I like everything else that architect Tom Mackenzie had in mind for the new Heythrop Park Resort course in Oxfordshire, England, I can't say I'm sold on the thinking behind the 18th, a 596-yard, straight-as-a-die, bunkerless par 5 that seems designed mainly to show off the stately home behind the green.

I'm not averse to one hole on any course being a bit of a slog but this does seem to be pushing it.

The link to the flyover is http://www.heythropparkgolf.co.uk/pwpcontrol.php?pwpID=1710 and I'd be interested to know what others think.

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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2009, 10:19:54 PM »
Another English course that has an unusual hole because of a stately manor is Brocket Hall just outside the M25 NW of London.  Peter Allis designed the first course there, I think there are now two.

The mandate was that no bunkers been seen from inside the stately home, used as a conference center these days, so there are none on the first hole and every other bunker that could be seen from the house is shaped in such a way as to be invisible from that angle.   Pretty cool.

Thoughts about this course from those who have played it?
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2009, 10:28:27 PM »
i think its a terrible looking hole, boring, etc...................
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Guy Nicholson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2009, 10:56:08 PM »
I like how the tees are located slightly left of centre to create interesting playing angles. It's not just three straight shots, no sir - it's a slight draw, followed by two straight shots.

 ::)
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Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 11:06:38 PM »
I dont care much for the whole estate house thing as reasoning for such a hole. But I do think the idea of having a dead straight, bunkerless par 5 of 600 yards, closely boardered by trees.

I think it is daring, original way to test not only the golfers ability to hit the long straight ball, but to test their concentration.
I think it will definitely cause some serious internal debate over which club to pull on your second shot, as your have nothing to influence your layup distance other then yourself.

I have never played this hole, and have no idea of how it actually fits to the land, and surrounds, but I know at the end of the round that hole is still going to be in your mind.

Seve Ballesteros' worst nightmare?!!
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Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 11:17:48 PM »
I can think of a few better holes where you can't see bunkers from the green.

I'd rather have a cart run over my foot than play that hole.
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2009, 05:07:25 AM »
Before you make judgement on the hole, bear in mind that the 18th was part of the old 1700's landscape plan where the architects were permitted to move next to no earth and had to leave the tree planting as was...

...A controversial finishing hole perhaps but maybe there was very little other option?
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Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 09:07:44 AM »
From a design perspective, it may be boring but in the scoop of challenge for the golfer, it may be quite the challenge.

Bunkers, individual trees, mounds, etc. are used as aiming points for golfers, on this hole there are none until you get closer to the green. 

A straight hole without any forgiving bend in the fairway is narrower ...



Has anyone played lt?


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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 10:56:55 AM »
I'm pretty sure this was played on a WWOG match I watched years ago.  Monty against someone else.  My impressions after watching it on TV was the clubhouse was a pretty cool backdrop even if the fairway and green otherwise were uneventful.
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 11:22:39 AM »
It's a new course Kalen... don't think it has opened yet...
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Mark Bourgeois

Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2009, 12:15:02 PM »
I love the way its straightness is used as a marketing plus -- nice to see they've got a sense of humor!

Wouldn't it be great if the 17th was a 120-degree dogleg?

"The penultimate hole at Heythrop has a strong claim to be regarded as the most-bent hole in world golf."

Nice landscape architecture archeology pickup in the voice over.

Mark
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David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2009, 12:22:21 PM »
Its all in how the hole plays.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2009, 06:53:53 PM »
Quote from: David Kelly on April 30, 2009, 12:22:21 PM
Its all in how the hole plays.

David:

What does this mean?

It sure looks to me like it plays straight...dead straight with trees on both sides...with no angles, no strategy, NO FUN.

Bart
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David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2009, 07:21:27 PM »
Quote from: Bart Bradley on April 30, 2009, 06:53:53 PM
Quote from: David Kelly on April 30, 2009, 12:22:21 PM
Its all in how the hole plays.
David:

What does this mean?

It sure looks to me like it plays straight...dead straight with trees on both sides...with no angles, no strategy, NO FUN.

Well if you can tell for certain how good of a hole it is just from a computer generated fly-over then you have a much better eye than I have.

I would be interested in seeing the contours of the green, how deep the grassy hollows are around the hole, what the prevailing wind might be, whether there is any movement in the ground, if the approach needs to come in from a certain side, the width of the fairway, etc...

It may turn out to be as incredibly boring as it looks but I wouldn't judge it just by looking at what amounts to a cartoon.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 07:47:32 PM »
David:

Fair enough....but I bet it is as boring as it looks  ;D.

Bart
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Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2009, 09:40:28 AM »
I'm surprised their marketing men didn't push for a final hole in excess of 600 yards, rather than being just a fraction under.
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Rich Goodale

Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2009, 09:44:38 AM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on April 30, 2009, 12:15:02 PM
Nice landscape architecture archeology pickup in the voice over.

Mark

That's Tom "The Other" Mackenzie himself in the voice over.
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Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does this cut it as a par 5?
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2009, 09:46:29 AM »
I don't think you can play the hole, from what I know it hasn't been built and the flyover is a marketing device to sell flyovers.  I had the demo on Wednesday.
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com
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