Kids and Private Clubs

[Rob Rigg]

Jon,

I am not sure if clubs in the US are anti-junior or if the public/private system in the US just makes it much more difficult for ANY golfer to understand both the etiquette and traditions of the game.

I know that while playing during the summer at a County club in Ireland, I learned golf etiquette from day one. Whether it was while caddying for a grand parent or uncle (probably the best way for anyone to learn) or while playing with elders.

My most vivid recollection of playing cart golf on a business trip in atlantic city was some guy trying to do 360s in the rough and another doing his best impression of the dukes of hazzard off a series of mounds. With mentors like that, junior golfers don't have much of a chance. I applaud all the public and private courses in the US who are properly educating young golfers, many will be better behaved on the course than their fathers.

[jeffwarne]

I think it is great to have kids at the golf club but....they need to know the etiquette of the game.  Kids under 16 should be accompanied by an adult.  I'm sure your club has some sort of rules but it appears they are not being enforced.  I would encourage you to take up the issue with both the head pro and the club manager.

Kids under 16 accompanied by an adult???
For what so they can learn slow play?

Kids should be trained in the rules and ettiquette by their parents and/or the golf stff at the club through jr. development programs.
The pro can simply certify them to play unaccompanied at designated times.
If a trained 15 year old cannot get around a golf course without a behaviour problem , I sure hope he's being accompanied at the mall or on weekend nights.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Can you spell Survival?

Children/juniors are the future of the industry.  Restricting their use of facilities (within reason) is a fast way to get young families to look for another club. 

We have a large junior program of over 100 children and grandchildren.  They are supervised by adults on Mondays.  With the exceptions of Mens day and some other limited times the juniors have access.  They are given etiquette training and will be sanctioned for not following those standards. 

The pro shop has an open invitation to pair a junior looking for a game with the group I most often play with. 

This is one way we have managed to lower our average member age and have become 'guardedly optimistic' about our survival as an operating entity. 

[Dan_Callahan]

I would take 20 well-behaved kids over one adult with a cell phone any day.

[Dan Herrmann]

Dan - AMEN!

We walked 18 behind 3 kids, the oldest of which was probably 15 last week.  We were done in 3:50 and the kids were great. 

Encourage kids to play and treat them as you'd treat anybody else - with respect.  Remember - they're (family) members too!

-------------
We also host the golf team from Villanova to help with their practice and some kids from a local school weekly. 

[Jed Peters]

Of course there's a time and a place for everything--I grew up with a Jr. program, my club has jrs. playing, etc. etc.

It's just a TIME AND PLACE thing. I.E. Jrs. should not be playing weekend mornings.

I support an "after 12:00 mid week, after 1:00 weekend, unrestricted" policy, personally.

[Lou_Duran]

A golf course, private or public, should not be used as a substitute for child care.  If the parents can't arrange adult supervision or otherwise ensure proper behavior, their kids have no business on the course.  Staff, members, and customers should not be required to assume the responsibility of the family.  Not only are most inadequately qualified to act appropriately, the legal environment is mostly hostile and often punitive when they intervene (reference the public school system).

If clubs wish to provide some of these services, all the more power to them.  No doubt that some members or customers will be drawn to these kid-friendly facilities, while others will vote with their feet and gravitate toward those which provide the golfing envrironment they seek.  I do think that the First Tee and other similar organizations are doing God's work.

As to junior golf being the future of the game, I am not aware that it was responsible for the rapid growth years.  Most golfers I know picked up the game later in life, after playing  team sports.  Personally, I think the future of golf lies in a sound economy, a growing population in the demographics which support the game (primarily adults with disposable income), and accessible, affordable facilities.   

[Jerry Kluger]

I have no problem with kids being out on the course by themselves provided they behave themselves appropriately. I would love it if my kids wanted to be dropped off at the club in the morning and spent the day playing and practicing while I'm off in my office dreaming about playing and practicing.  Of course, if they don't behave and show proper etiquette then they, like any other member, can lose the privilege.  A country club invites members to join and that includes their families and they are all entitled to access to all of the facilities provided they follow the rules.  The membership can decide to limit that access and the members know this when they join the club.

I would like to caution all of those who have decided to allow their children to ride in a golf cart that it can be very dangerous.  A friend of mine was with his 5 year old son in a golf cart and the kid fell out of the stopped cart and fractured his skull and nearly died.  Carts do not have seat belts and a moving cart is even more dangerous.   

[Carl Johnson]

I would like to caution all of those who have decided to allow their children to ride in a golf cart that it can be very dangerous.  A friend of mine was with his 5 year old son in a golf cart and the kid fell out of the stopped cart and fractured his skull and nearly died.  Carts do not have seat belts and a moving cart is even more dangerous.   

And certainly not allowed to drive a golf cart.   Last week at a public course I frequent a child was allowed by an adult to drive a cart against course regulations.  The child struck a 78-year-old member of his family group who left the course in a helicopter ambulance paralyzed from the neck down.  (I do not know his condition since.)

[Brent Hutto]

I'll tell you what. I won't take when you're hitting the ball although personally I don't ever hear what's going on when I'm about to hit a shot. As for anywhere else, if you don't like people "talking a lot" then you'd better join a monastery and not any golf club I've ever seen. Geez some of the guys at my club could talk the ears off a mule.

But regarding the main issue I could see how it might be a problem but honesty in my experience the teenaged kids that hang out at the golf course a lot tend to be a) decent players and b) with better than decent etiquette. I think as someone said it's just got to be handled on a situational basis. I predict you'll encounter more trouble if you approach the problem from who they are (i.e. "kids") rather than as what they're doing (i.e. bad etiquette or acting out).

[Tom Birkert]

What a lot of clubs in the UK have is a "Cadet" scheme.

They get lessons on etiquette and golf instruction from the pro and / or members, and are allowed access to the course at certain times (not weekend mornings etc).

It's done to prepare them for membership and seems to work pretty well.

[John Mayhugh]

One of the beauties of golf is the diversity of the players.

Old, young, rich, poor, men, women, etc., etc..

One of the tenets of the game is that golfers are expected to conduct themselves in a singular manner.

The USGA rules begin with "Section I; Etiquette: Behavior On the Course"

All golfers, old, young, rich, poor, men, women, etc., etc., are expected to conduct themselves accordingly.

Hence, the behavior of children is expected to be NO DIFFERENT than the behavior of others.

Well said.  If only everyone lived up to this.

[Jason Topp]

I first caught the golf bug at a course that not only allowed, but welcomed juniors.  We felt like we owned the place and played every weekday.  I'm sure our etiquette was less than perfect but I will guarantee you we learned, not through commands from authority but through the examples of adults who joined our group every once in a while.  I still love the place.

When I was 12, we moved to another town and joined a small club that did not allow juniors to play without an adult.  My father played once a week with me but I felt like an intruder at the place.  I drifted away from the game until we moved again a year later.  I have never been back.

Guess which town had a dominating high school golf program?

[Lyne Morrison]

One of the beauties of golf is the diversity of the players.

Old, young, rich, poor, men, women, etc., etc..

One of the tenets of the game is that golfers are expected to conduct themselves in a singular manner.

The USGA rules begin with "Section I; Etiquette: Behavior On the Course"

All golfers, old, young, rich, poor, men, women, etc., etc., are expected to conduct themselves accordingly.

Hence, the behavior of children is expected to be NO DIFFERENT than the behavior of others.

A critical element with respect to young golfers is how they're introduced to the game.
What do they think is expected of them ?

Clubs that encourage young golfers, that first educate their young golfers, and subsequently enforce the rules, including the code of conduct, seem to fare best.  They seem to produce the highest quality of golfer in terms of general conduct and etiquette.

In theory, at private clubs, today's junior golfers are the next generation of members.

Indoctrinating them properly insures that the rules, etiquette and traditions of the game will be perpetuated.

If young golfers aren't conducting themselves properly, the first line of defense should be to "talk to them" to inform them of the error/s of their ways.  If that fails to rectify the situation, temporary removal of their golf privileges should be the
the second line of defense.  If that fails to rectify the situation, removal of their golf privileges for the remainder of the season is the last resort.

However, clubs that encourage and provide a substantive "Junior" program don't seem to have those problems as the kids understand that a breach in etiquette carries serious consequences.

The biggest or most common problem that occurs at clubs without a strong Junior program is the friction between members when a member chastises the young golfer or complains about him to third parties or his parents.

If the CLUB has a strong Junior program, it's the CLUB, the "Junior Program", and not an individual member who enforces that code of conduct.

I've been at a good number of clubs where there's a strong Junior Program and I've always been impressed by how the Junior golfers dress and conduct themselves.

The other beauty of golf is that youngsters can play with adults and in doing so they can learn how to associate with their elders, how to communicate with the next generation or two and how to be respectful while being competitive.  These youngsters are far, far ahead of their peers when it comes to dealing with adults, rules and what's expected of them.

Today, I saw several young golfer having a putting contest amongst themselves.
They were highly competitive, but, respectful of the other golfers on the putting green and around the clubhouse.
Junior golf is a great investment for almost any club.

Many, if not most clubs require young golfers to pass and Etiquette and Playing test before they're allowed on the golf course.
While most parents will posture that their children are capable of being on their own on the golf course, I'd rather have the professional staff make that determination.

Patrick - this is such a good post - thank you.

Junior golf is an evolving journey - with solid foundations in place and the necessary commitment and mentoring provided by older peers, the experience will (in most cases) be positive - not only for the individual, but also the club and the greater golfing community.

And in a digital age, this paragraph captures much - The other beauty of golf is that youngsters can play with adults and in doing so they can learn how to associate with their elders, how to communicate with the next generation or two and how to be respectful while being competitive.  These youngsters are far, far ahead of their peers when it comes to dealing with adults, rules and what's expected of them. Hear, hear.

Cheers - Lyne