My first topic...here we go

[Ben Sims]

Hi everyone! I am new to posting, but I've been lurking for some years now.  I am a twenty six year old pilot in the Air Force with a passion for GCA and landing safely (it's better that way trust me). I don't have the penmanship of Mr. Kavanaugh or the slick knowledge and real world experience of Mr. Doak.  But I know good golf when I see it and look forward to expressing a young version what Mr. Mike Keiser calls "The Retail Golfer".  My favorite courses I've played..

1) Sheep Ranch
2)Old Mac (if you haven't booked 2010 up there yet, make it happen, its that good)
3) Pac Dunes
4) Pasatiempo
5) Peachtree GC

My first topic to this esteemed group is this.  How do the top 7 or so public access courses in California stack up against the top 7 from Oregon.  Make no mistake, the width and breadth top to bottom in Cali is a clear winner.  But I'm curious to see what the "top tier" looks like when compared.  Keep in mind that there are two Doak courses set to open in the next year or so.  So hypothetically, wht will that comparison look like in two to three years.

My fiance' is on notice and the dog just got a new fangled automatic feeding bowl.  I am a GCA'er now.

Ben Sims

[Anthony Gray]

   Ben,

  Say good-bye to the girl ,dog and jets....it is over for you. As for your question...Oregon wins.


  Anthony

[Mike_Young]

Ben,
Explain the Peachtree thing..everything else listed is West Coast.....are you East coast or west coast

[Bill_McBride]

Ben, welcome aboard and thanks for your service.  Are you going to fly the F-35 that's going to be based down the road from me at Eglin AFB?  Where are you stationed now?

You will probably arouse some serious passion, perhaps some great analysis, and definitely some overblown hyperbole with this good first topic. 

Let's see....

Pebble Beach
Pasatiempo
Spyglass Hill
Torrey Pines South
Rustic Canyon 
Barona
Harding Park

vs.

Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Bandon Dunes
Old MacDonald
Sunriver Crosswater
Pumpkin Ridge Ghost Creek
Tetherow (for a while)

I don't know.  Whaddya think?

I'll go California based on less rain, but boy it's close.

[Kalen Braley]

Damn it Bill,

There you go again leaving out Spanish Bay, Lincoln Park, and Santa Teresa.   

And no love for Stevinson Ranch even if it is a wee bit off the beaten path? 

[Ben Sims]

Mike,

Currently flying C-17 Globemaster out of the bay area.  I grew up in the ATL before attending the Air Force Academy. That's where the Peachtree thing came.  When I was accepted, on older gentleman who will remain nameless invited me to play there.  One of my fonder golfing experiences

Bill,

No F-35 for me.  As we all know, fighter pilots suck at golf and wouldn't know the difference between Doak and Fazio unless told so.  I'll reserve my opinion just yet.  But lets not forget--for the sake of argument--Wicked Pony and Tetherow.

Ben

[Mike Wagner]

I think what we're seeing right now is history in the making, and it started in 1999 when Bandon opened.  OR wins - the Bandon courses are just so good!!

The Cali courses have history on their side, but Bandon has an older soul.

[Mike_Young]

When were you at airforce academy.....
where did you go to highschool n ATL....

[Bill_McBride]

Mike,

Currently flying C-17 Globemaster out of the bay area.  I grew up in the ATL before attending the Air Force Academy. That's where the Peachtree thing came.  When I was accepted, on older gentleman who will remain nameless invited me to play there.  One of my fonder golfing experiences

Bill,

No F-35 for me.  As we all know, fighter pilots suck at golf and wouldn't know the difference between Doak and Fazio unless told so.  I'll reserve my opinion just yet.  But lets not forget--for the sake of argument--Wicked Pony and Tetherow.

Ben

I put Tetherow in there although it will be private as soon as possible.  Is Wicked Pony public access?

[PCCraig]

Welcome ben!

I think you knew the answer to your question before you posted. However the idea that the publics in OR are actually better is enlightening, even if 4 are in one resort.

[Ben Sims]

Mr. Wagner,

Mr. Doak said recently in an interview (last year or so in reference to Old Mac and Pac Dunes collectively), "I don't know if I want to take on the phrase 'important to golf'".  But looking at Mr. McBride's list, maybe we are seeing history in the making.

Mr. Young,

2004 graduate of USAFA and I grew up in Bremen, GA and went to a high school by that name.  40 min west of ATL

Mr. Wagner,

Sorry, I missed Tetherow on there.  My understanding is that Wicked Pony will be a resort stay type deal at Remington ranch. I could be wrong.

[Ben Sims]

Pat,

  Thanks for reading me like a book.  But isn't just admitting the fact out-loud almost a laughable? Personally the quickness with which it's happened must be the most intriguing side of the argument.

[Garland Bayley]

In my mind Harbottle trumps Cupp. Where's the love for Juniper?

[Sean Leary]

I believe Pronghorn Nicklaus is now open to the public as well.

[Mike_Young]

Mr. Wagner,

Mr. Doak said recently in an interview (last year or so in reference to Old Mac and Pac Dunes collectively), "I don't know if I want to take on the phrase 'important to golf'".  But looking at Mr. McBride's list, maybe we are seeing history in the making.

Mr. Young,

2004 graduate of USAFA and I grew up in Bremen, GA and went to a high school by that name.  40 min west of ATL

Mr. Wagner,

Sorry, I missed Tetherow on there.  My understanding is that Wicked Pony will be a resort stay type deal at Remington ranch. I could be wrong.

Home of Tom Murphy....
did you run into Colin Crosby from Athens while out there at air force.....

[Tom_Doak]

Ben:

Welcome!  We've noticed in Bandon this winter that some sort of military plane comes up every day from the south, turns around pretty much right above the resort, and heads back south.  Is that you?

One of the reasons OR vs. CA is even a close fight is that the zoning laws for resort/recreational development in Oregon INSIST on a public component to every project.  For the Fazio course at Pronghorn to be private, they have to take a certain percentage of public tee times at the Nicklaus course, and have a certain number of rooms available for overnight accommodations.  [I don't know if there is any limit to what they can charge for those rooms, though, so I'm not sure the law is as effective as it was meant to be.]

I just hope Wicked Pony opens one day ... it's still a pretty iffy proposition and there are a lot of parties who aren't paid in full.  If you should happen to accidentally drop something in their vicinity on one of your flights, maybe they'd get moving again!

[Ben Sims]

Tom Murphy was a close family friend and his son, Judge Michael Murphy, actually commissioned me into the Air Force.  I am not familiar with Colin Crosby, though its been a haze of years since 2004.

[Ben Sims]

Mr. Doak,

It's an honor to be conversing with you.  No that's not me flying low level in the C-17 over Bandon, Lord knows I've tried it though!! 

However, after my recent visit, Apr 2-5, up at Bandon, and the life changing experience I had on Sheep Ranch, Old Mac, and the other three ; my friend and I presented the Resort with a flag that we had flown in combat and a plaque with our pictures in front of the jet.  Mr. Hickox said he would place it somewhere in the Lodge.  Add that to a five hour conversation with Michael Murphy, and it was quite the trip.  By the way, my favorite hole over the entire trip was Bottle at Old Mac.

Ben

[RJ_Daley]

I still can't believe that thing actually flies through the air!      Can you practice chip shots off a mat in the back?  What is the chance of sneaking one off for a weekend and meeting the whole GCA.com gang for a fast weekend to the Buda Cup next year. 

Seriously, thanks Ben for the dedication and responsibility you have to serve in such an awesome capacity.

TD, I never heard of that Oregon development zoning public component to any resort/rec facility.  But, what does that mean exactly?  If it is a resort, isn't it by definition public and open for business? 

[Tom_Doak]

RJ:  New golf courses in the Bend area and on the Oregon coast can ONLY be built in areas zoned resort/recreational ... even the ones which seem to be marketed as private have to have a resort component, too.  I believe that law was passed back when the late Howard McKee was helping write land use laws for the state.

Of course, there are some people who would suggest that the government of Oregon is borderline Communist for making such rules, but those who enjoy the golf courses out there should count their blessings.

[George_Bahto]

Ben - I'm glad you liked the Bottle hole.

Could you expand a bit on what you  liked about the hole - the green - the approach - the angles??

[Ben Sims]

RJ,

Nice pic of the Chuck-town bubbas.  Yes I have hit a shot from the back ramp into Iraq while while on the ground in Baghdad.  Alas, I was in the bunker I couldn't resist.

Tom,

I wasn't in the know about Oregon zoning.  Well, other than McKee's beautiful work back in mid-90's.  But the comparison of top tier public is intriguing wouldn't you say?

George,

Wind was at our back and I destroyed the tee shot on #10 Bottle.  Unfortunately it was just over in the fairway on #6 Long.  That left an 8 iron over the furthest right fairway bunker and over the false front on the right side of the green (rather like No-front).  I stated to my caddie at that time, and before chip up and putt down for par, that it was the best hole I'd ever played.  The angle of attack to the green and its slope relative to the fairway is just sublime.  It shortens considerably in summer wind, but the two results of either being short or long leave the player with the ultimate "how far do I hit my x iron" equation.  That and it's connection to the amazing #5 Short green is something public golf in the states needs.  I was honored to play it.

Ben

[PCCraig]

Pat,

  Thanks for reading me like a book.  But isn't just admitting the fact out-loud almost a laughable? Personally the quickness with which it's happened must be the most intriguing side of the argument.

I think the more interesting question is which state would be on top if you take out each's "big" resort company. So no Bandon in OR, and no Pebble Beach Company in CA...it becomes a little closer then.

[Anthony Gray]

  Ben,

  I told you it is over for you. 20 posts on your first day. I'm going to IM you the # of my therapist. Now start having a few typos and misspelling a few words.

  Anthony

[Bill Shamleffer]

Ben,

First, thank you very much for your service to your country.

Second, I once played the New Course at St. Andrews with two members of the U.S. Air Force stationed at nearby Leuchars air base.

So consider that as a possible career aspiration - paid to live in Scotland, ideally with time for some golf.