World Woods... a new twist

« **on:** April 23, 2009, 05:06:12 PM »

Heard interesting rumor that a certain facility owner revered on this website was looking at the possibility of acquiring Wolrd Woods. Good news if true.

« **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:08:51 PM »

Quote from: Greg Tallman on April 23, 2009, 05:06:12 PM

Heard interesting rumor that a certain facility owner revered on this website was looking at the possibility of acquiring Wolrd Woods. Good news if true.

Could this be Mighty Keen news?

« **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:10:10 PM »

Might Kould be

« **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:11:46 PM »

DONALD TRUMP!?!?!?

This is the best news I've heard in a while. I'm thinking "Trump International, Southwest Campus"

« **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:12:45 PM »

Quote from: Pat Craig on April 23, 2009, 05:11:46 PM

DONALD TRUMP!?!?!?

This is the best news I've heard in a while. I'm thinking "Trump International, Southwest Campus"

You, Pat, ARE FIRED!

« **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:16:30 PM »

Quote from: Greg Tallman on April 23, 2009, 05:12:45 PM

Quote from: Pat Craig on April 23, 2009, 05:11:46 PM
DONALD TRUMP!?!?!?

This is the best news I've heard in a while. I'm thinking "Trump International, Southwest Campus"

You, Pat, ARE FIRED!

Do you think the next winner of his show will have to turn this into a subdivision? Hopefully he/she will do better than the first season's winner in Chicago did.

« **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:19:35 PM »

Quote from: Pat Craig on April 23, 2009, 05:16:30 PM

Quote from: Greg Tallman on April 23, 2009, 05:12:45 PM
Quote from: Pat Craig on April 23, 2009, 05:11:46 PM
DONALD TRUMP!?!?!?

This is the best news I've heard in a while. I'm thinking "Trump International, Southwest Campus"

You, Pat, ARE FIRED!

Do you think the next winner of his show will have to turn this into a subdivision? Hopefully he/she will do better than the first season's winner in Chicago did.

I think $45,000 patio homes would be the smart bet in today's market. They have land to build somewhere around 10,000 of those.

« **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2009, 07:42:34 PM »

Why would this be good news?...Greens fees are less than half than on the other coast... WW is a wonderful place. No homes intrude. No resort amenities. Down to earth... No snobbery...unheard of by most...why would any change make it better?

« **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2009, 07:46:34 PM »

Is Mike Keiser in the hunt ?

« **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2009, 07:47:13 PM »

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on April 23, 2009, 07:42:34 PM

Why would this be good news?...Greens fees are less than half than on the other coast... WW is a wonderful place. No homes intrude. No resort amenities. Down to earth... No snobbery...unheard of by most...why would any change make it better?

Property has struggled from day one, is mediocre in terms of conditioning and has limitless possibilities including on site accommodations not dissimilar to Bandon.

Not sure if the entire parcel of land is still held in the same deed but the original plan had something along the lines of 8 courses.

« **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2009, 08:18:40 PM »

Quote from: Greg Tallman on April 23, 2009, 07:47:13 PM

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on April 23, 2009, 07:42:34 PM
Why would this be good news?...Greens fees are less than half than on the other coast... WW is a wonderful place. No homes intrude. No resort amenities. Down to earth... No snobbery...unheard of by most...why would any change make it better?

Property has struggled from day one, is mediocre in terms of conditioning and has limitless possibilities including on site accommodations not dissimilar to Bandon.

Not sure if the entire parcel of land is still held in the same deed but the original plan had something along the lines of 8 courses.

When I played WW last year I thought the condition was fine with the greens rolling fast and true... On site accommodations can be nice if they are not overdone or obtrusive. Unfortunately, they add very significantly to the cost and typically harm the visuals. Give me the Holiday Inn and reasonably priced golf at a quality course anytime....WW is around $115...Bandon $250 or so...Bandon's accomodations are easily $200 plus. A motel room within a short distance of WW under $100...2 courses with the current atmosphere and unheard of by the noveau riche seems fine to me...unless WW is going to be plowed under I remain unconvinced that any change would be an improvement

« **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2009, 08:54:08 PM »

I am in full agreement with this one, unless the new owner or owners keep the current rate , add lodging that is unobtrusive and in tune with current rates (15 min away) I don't see how this can be good. I agree conditions can be pretty bad and have seen them as such but lately conditions have improved greatly from the way they were 3 or 4 years ago.

My two cents

Brad

« **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2009, 08:58:29 PM »

Part of the WW appeal is that is feels like it isn't near anything else.

I've played in January for the past three years (prime season) and have never paid more than $50. They've always got specials floating around. That will surely change, as will the seclusion, if housing enters the picture.

WW

« **Reply #13 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:02:26 PM »

There is plenty of room up there, so much so that even if housing enters the picture - it won't seem all the intrusive.

« **Reply #14 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:29:43 PM »

But will it change the nature of WW? Will the price structure change?

« **Reply #15 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:34:45 PM »

If Mike K. builds new housing in today's Florida market he will be taken away in a straightjacket.

If he does buy the property (Trump came in too late I heard, haha) I'm sure it won't be run much differently. Maybe an extra cabin or two.

« **Reply #16 on:** April 24, 2009, 07:46:33 AM »

My other concern with Mr. K. is his propensity for walking only courses. Many salute this and I understand, but for those with disabilities it is a huge hassle. Most courses take your word for it and you get a cart with a handicap flag. At Bandon you must call months ahead, provide medical documentation of your disability and than hope you can get a cart when you want to play as the number of carts is extremely limited.

I don't understand why a car placard shouldn't be sufficient or better yet believe in people. Yes, there are those that would cheat to get a cart but so be it. Also, there should be enough carts to meet the needs of the disabled. Simply put it is a huge hassle for the disabled to play at Bandon.

« **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2009, 08:24:22 AM »

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on April 24, 2009, 07:46:33 AM

My other concern with Mr. K. is his propensity for walking only courses. Many salute this and I understand, but for those with disabilities it is a huge hassle. Most courses take your word for it and you get a cart with a handicap flag. At Bandon you must call months ahead, provide medical documentation of your disability and than hope you can get a cart when you want to play as the number of carts is extremely limited.

I don't understand why a car placard shouldn't be sufficient or better yet believe in people. Yes, there are those that would cheat to get a cart but so be it. Also, there should be enough carts to meet the needs of the disabled. Simply put it is a huge hassle for the disabled to play at Bandon.

Why not just make carts the same cost of taking a caddy? $50-$60 a person?

« **Reply #18 on:** April 24, 2009, 10:17:17 AM »

If you price cart equal to caddie than a large number of people will opt for carts which I believe is exactly what Mr Keiser doesn't want based on the current policy.

When we have taken caddies we have always paid them more than 50 or 60 when you factor in a tip anyway.

I might support a cart fee of $150 (and free pull carts) for non disabled patrons.

« **Reply #19 on:** April 24, 2009, 11:19:02 AM »

Quote from: Tim Bert on April 24, 2009, 10:17:17 AM

If you price cart equal to caddie than a large number of people will opt for carts which I believe is exactly what Mr Keiser doesn't want based on the current policy.

When we have taken caddies we have always paid them more than 50 or 60 when you factor in a tip anyway.

I might support a cart fee of $150 (and free pull carts) for non disabled patrons.

Tim-

That is what I was getting at, if cost is no difference and you could physically walk the course, I could think of no advantage of taking a cart.

« **Reply #20 on:** April 24, 2009, 11:27:03 AM »

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on April 23, 2009, 07:42:34 PM

Why would this be good news?...Greens fees are less than half than on the other coast... WW is a wonderful place. No homes intrude. No resort amenities. Down to earth... No snobbery...unheard of by most...why would any change make it better?

exactly my sentiments! change of ownership will just put the price up.

« **Reply #21 on:** April 24, 2009, 03:09:48 PM »

What if he wanted to turn WW into Bandon East? The original plans did call for a lot more courses, they just finished a toll road up from Tampa that cut the travel time to the course by almost 40 minutes from North Tampa. Florida is a lot easier to access than Bandon is.......maybe he can buy it on the cheap and build up another version of Bandon in Florida. He certainly has enough money to buy it up and ride out the economy a bit.....

From what I remember of the property, they could build a decent amount cabins and you would never see them from the course.

PS: The one thing about it would be that he would pretty much have to commit to building another 2 courses up there to make people want to pay the extra freight. They have been practically giving away rounds up there for so long, I dont see many of the locals willing to pay extra money to play the original two courses.

« **Reply #22 on:** April 24, 2009, 03:19:03 PM »

Obviously this is all speculation. However, if in fact Keiser acquires World Woods, what in his track record suggests that he is going to ruin the facility by adding a real estate development visible from the course? I for one would certainly be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has earned it in my book.

Now with respect to the fee structure, one could assume that if the facility were netting a handsome profit under the current price structure it would not be for sale.

« **Reply #23 on:** April 24, 2009, 03:21:11 PM »

maybe he intends to build the other 9 holes of Dunes club there and the combined 18 will reach #1 on the GD list

« **Reply #24 on:** April 24, 2009, 05:17:26 PM »

Quote from: Gary Slatter on April 24, 2009, 11:27:03 AM

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on April 23, 2009, 07:42:34 PM
Why would this be good news?...Greens fees are less than half than on the other coast... WW is a wonderful place. No homes intrude. No resort amenities. Down to earth... No snobbery...unheard of by most...why would any change make it better?
exactly my sentiments! change of ownership will just put the price up.

With the current economic situation, the demographics of that area and the fact that the green fees have, if anything, gone down in the last 15 years I don't see any way they could raise prices unless they completely redid their business plan and added a lot more value to the experience.

My worry would be that absent a change of ownership how will the place survive?

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