[Bryce Mueller]

I will be attempting to qualify for the open starting at Essex County CC outside the city in a few weeks, and was wondering if anybody could provide any type of scouting report....

Unfortunately i have entered the real world up in the city so won't be near comfortable with my game going into it, but why not dream right?

[Tim Copeland]

I just bought a yardage book and got a scorecard from there....but didnt get to ride around it

Thats all I got

[Jerry Kluger]

I presume you are talking about Essex County CC in New Jersey.  George Bahto and Gil Hanse did some really great work there and it is true hidden gem.  I would suggest contacting George and get as much inside information as is possible. 

[Matt_Ward]

Bryce:

I am well familiar with the layout.

Superb updating from the duo of Hanse / Bahto. In my mind, it's one of the most underrated courses in the state and often time gets so little attention that it boggles my mind.

The key is getting off to a good start -- the first two holes provide clear birdie opportunities and you do have back-to-back par-5's that can be had if the execution is there. Try to realize that failure to max out the front will mean a steady diet of ever-increasing demands on the inner half -- one of the best closing nines in all of Jersey.

When you play the inner half -- be sure to respect the uphill par-4 12th -- very demanding hole which will require at minimum 2-3 club more for the approach than the yardage says.

The concluding trio are also superb with the finale at the 18th just a gem of way to close out the round. Essex County is best played with approaches that avoid long sidehill putts -- although the greens don't appear demanding it can be quite vexing if your approach play is inconsistent or erractic.

Given my familiarity and knowledge of Jersey courses -- Essex County has all the goods to be rated among the top five. Lofty one might ask? Yes, but deserved -- best of luck to you when you attempt to qualify.

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: I couldn't agree more - if you don't have fun playing ECCC then you really should take up another sport.

[George_Bahto]

you will find the back nine is one of the better and toughest back nines in our area

lots of luck

this past fall we put in about ten new strategic fairway bunkers that were in the original plans but that the club never let Banks put into the original layout

they keep the course in great condition

George Bahto

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt,

I agree

Essex County CC is one of those sleepers that few, if any, outside the Met area, or Northern NJ have ever heard about.

Yet, it's one of the most enjoyable challenges you can find.

In recent play of ECCC I noticed that the WIND seems to have become more of an element.  Perhaps that's due to some of the tree removal.
Sitting high on the first ridge of the Orange Mountains helps.

George,

I hope to get to ECCC this spring.
If I was thinking of joining a club in Essex County, that would certainly be one high on the list.

I love the golf course, it's one of those "sporty" layouts that you want to play over and over again.

[Matt_Ward]

If there was any real advertisement to demonstrate how woeful the NJ state ratings are by GD -- it's the omission of Essex County from their overall top 20. I mean the place isn't among them -- that's big time joke for any person who claims to know Garden State golf.

Essex County was a solid layout prior to the work of Hanse / Bahto. The 2009 product you see now only magnifies what is there. For the course to be left on the sideline demonstrates either one or the other thing -- ignorance or stupidity. The first can be helped -- the second there is no hope.

Digest and its raters failed big time with the omission in my mind.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt,

I wasn't aware that ECCC was omitted from the top 20 list.

That's a glaring, if not an incompetent oversight.

[George_Bahto]

Pat:  incredible tree removal program over the past two/three years and they should be commended for what they've done

we only recommended "moderate" tree removal in the original master plan - (we thought we would be thrown out with a "full tree removal plan" ....   )  - - once they saw the open vistas (etc) they really "ran with the ball"

yes, wind is a factor now

in my opinion, i think what was accomplished at Essex County CC is at least on a par with what we accomplished at Sleepy Hollow - hopefully Gil will nominate ECCC next year

(I think I still ahve a couple of bunkers to do there this year)

regards

gb

[Matt_Ward]

George:

My only issue with the "new" ECCC is overall fairway width and the desire to have rough that is way too high. I have not seen the course this year but competitors who played in a State PGA event there did mention this to me when I inquired.

I have never been a fan of 4 or more inches of rough as it serves to eliminate recovery which is part and parcel of the game.

Congrats on the work done there -- ECCC is truly a fantastic layout and one any golf design junkie has to play when in the immediate vicinity.

Pat:

Not only is ECCC not rated among the top 20 -- but you also have no Montclair #2 & #4 nines (site of the '85 US Amateur) and Forsgate / Banks which was skillfulyl upgraded by Stephen Kay and through the smarts of Chris Schiavone.

Like I said, give GD a double-bogey for their lack of due diligence.

[Peter Ferlicca]

I went and played this course last year, and was thouroughly impressed by the layout and condition, the bunkers are awesome.  Some holes you will feel like it is a raynor bunker, then on the next hole it looks like a tilly bunker, pretty cool routing.  My real good friend is the Assistant Pro there and he said that they are trying to toughen up the course, now at 7,300 yards to hopefully get a LPGA major, or in the future a host of the Barclays.  It is definetly deserving of both of those tournaments.  IMO the barclays should switch to a classic metro club every year, and I guarentee you the pros would love that considering how much they like Ridgewood last year.  The back nine is one of the best I have played, great hole after great hole.  18 is a tough finisher uphill.

[Matt_Ward]

PFerlicca:

The last thing ECCC needs to do is create an over-the-top out-of-control monster that is only practical to a one-time tourney. This is what was done to a host of places that I have enjoyed -- Bethpage Black did this and I shake my head at this development.

I wonder how "narrow" the fairways will become at Plainfield when they host such an event or how deep the rough must be grown for the week in glory. 

I have questions tied to the width dimension and the to depth / density of the rough that adjoins the fairways. ECCC is a frst rate design and has been for quite some time -- the work Hanse and Bahto have done, in conjunction with leadership at the club level, has taken the facility to a whole different level.

How the course continues to be ignored -- that is the only word one can use -- baffles me to no end.

ECCC is a dynamo which merits attention for any course lover. Too bad the same thing cannot happen for the former West Course / aka Francis Bryne.

[Greg Stebbins]

Bryce,

I'm a member at ECCC.  Unfortunately I won't be able to play in the qualifier.  Send me your e-mail and I will give you some notes.

Thanks to everyone for the kind words about the course.  The rough was a one time deal with the State PGA last year.  The course will be just under 7100 yards after the tee and bunker work is complete.  This will allow the long holes to play long enough with the firm conditions we aim for.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt Ward,

The last time I played ECCC the fairways were wide.
Has that changed ?

If GD left either ECCC, MGC # 2 & 4 and Forsgate out of a top 20, someone missed the boat, or just doesn't get it.

PFerlicca,

Are you positive that the course plays to 7,300 yards ?

I know they lengthened # 7, but, where else did they add significant length ?

Why would they want to toughen the course up, there's not a member there who can break par with any consistency.

[David Kelly]

I played ECCC a few years ago after the Hanse/Bahto work but before all of the trees had been removed, although many already had been.  I was shocked by how good the course was and told Matt and some other people at the time. 

The super and the pro were very happy with the results of the work and seemed very much in tune with the idea of opening up the views throughout the course so I am not surprised to hear that they went even farther than George and Gil dared to recommend in the beginning.

[Greg Stebbins]

Pat,

We have about a dozen members that can break par and a few of us who do it fairly regularly.  Holes 7, 12, 13, 15, and 18 have been significantly lengthened.  This was necessary as holes like 12 and 18 often required short iron or wedge approach shots for most of the summer.  The added tees give us flexibility in how we set up the course.  The new bunkers are those that were lost over time or never built but were in Banks' plans and fit in very well thanks to Gil and George's work.

Regarding the fairways, they have only been widened in recent years, none have been narrowed.  To that end, I'm hoping we restore the original width of the 12th fairway to bring back the hogs back feature.

[Matt_Ward]

Pat:

It shocks me that Digest could be thaaaaat far off in the Jersey ratings. The work that was done at ECCC was on the radar screen for any golf person keeping their ear low to the ground.

The course is located, as you know, in a golf hotbed community in West Orange with the likes of a superb 36-hole complex with Montclair GC just down the street.

ECCC is a tremendous layout and deserves at minimum a top ten standing in my mind. The layout was often knocked for a weaker front nine but that has changed and the two sides now work so well together with the know how that Hanse / Bahto have provided. Hats off to the club for taking the course to another level. Those who know "jersey golf" know full well what ECCC means. Unfortunately, Digest raters blew it big time with the omission of ECCC, Montclair #2 & #4 and the upgraded / restored Banks Course at Forsgate.

Greg S:

Can you provide the new "tip" tee distances for the entire course ?

Glad to hear about the trimming of the rough -- can you provide a ballpark width element for most fairways -- are they as wide 35-40 in areas?

[Greg Stebbins]

These are not official, but here are the approximate new tip tee distances, all within 5 - 10 yards.

380   310   390   425   472   180   640   528   170   3,495
440   205   475   580   325   250   440   381   480   3,576  7,071

As for the fairways, they vary in width.  I believe the most narrow is the 4th hole at about 25 yards, but most are in the 35 yard range.  Holes 7, 13, 14, 16 and 18 are over 40 yards wide where they are not pinched by cross bunkers. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Greg,

In an effort to increase my meager 401K account, I'd be willing to wager those dozen golfers on their ability to break par consistently.

In fact, I'll package the investment and sell it, advertising it as having a guaranteed return.

I'm glad to hear that the fairways haven't been narrowed.

I'm aware that 7 has been lengthened to 600+ yards, it's a real deal par 5.

As to # 12, I must have missed a new back tee.  Where is it located in relation to the old back tee.  Same with # 13, the old tee box was cut into the side of the hill, where's the new one ?  Ditto # 15 and # 18.

I know # 9 had a new, long, lower tee added, which I don't like, but, don't recall any significant length being added to the other holes as you indicate.
# 8  was also lengthened, but, not effectively.

What does the score card read from the back tees ?

I don't recall golfers ever hitting a wedge into # 12 green, that was always a solid, slightly uphill par 4.

Matt Ward,

Perhaps with all the new courses in South Jersey, the GD raters never ventured north of the Raritan Bridge.

Could you list the NJ top 20.

Hollywood and Mt Ridge probably have the best green complexes in the State.  The movement in the putting surfaces at both clubs is spectacular.
Like WFW, I don't think you can have a straight putt if your putt is 8 feet or more.

I believe that David Eger raved about Mt Ridge, categorizing it as a top 100 in the country.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Greg,

Thanks for the yardages,

I knew that PFerlicca was grossly incorrect when he stated that the course was at 7,300 yards.

I played it last year from the back tees and it wasn't anywhere near that distance.

One of the things I like about ECCC is the first two, quirky holes.
Many a round is ruined on those short openers.  And then, the golf course quickly changes its personality.

It's one of my favorite courses to play.
It's one of those courses you can play every day and never tire of it.

# 16 green is one of my favorite greens in the country.
It's a spectacular hole void of fairway bunkering with a spectacular green.

It's interesting to contrast the start and finish on the golf course.
The first two seem like pushovers on the score card, while the last 4 holes are a real test.

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt and Pat:

Could you give your list of best modern and classical courses in NJ?

[George_Bahto]

Pat - last year we put in a large principals nose in the proper spot, short of the great 16-green

[Peter Ferlicca]

Greg,

Thanks for the yardages,

I knew that PFerlicca was grossly incorrect when he stated that the course was at 7,300 yards.

I played it last year from the back tees and it wasn't anywhere near that distance.

One of the things I like about ECCC is the first two, quirky holes.
Many a round is ruined on those short openers.  And then, the golf course quickly changes its personality.

It's one of my favorite courses to play.
It's one of those courses you can play every day and never tire of it.

# 16 green is one of my favorite greens in the country.
It's a spectacular hole void of fairway bunkering with a spectacular green.

It's interesting to contrast the start and finish on the golf course.
The first two seem like pushovers on the score card, while the last 4 holes are a real test.

Patrick,

I just talked to the assistant pro two days ago and he stated to me on the phone 7,300 yards, so he must have been exaggerating.  When I played it last year it was right around 7,000 yards.  I was just stating what he said.

[Greg Stebbins]

Pat,

Please re-read my post as I said that a few of us break par regularly out of a dozen who are capable of it.

I doubt that you have seen the new tees.  They have been built and sodded in the past two months and won't be open for another month or so.  We have not printed new score cards yet, hence my estimates.

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