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Mark_F

Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« on: April 21, 2009, 07:22:11 AM »
Newcastle golf club, commonly called Stockton, located in Fern Bay, NSW, has been described as a hidden gem, primarily, I would guess, because it is located in a somewhat hard done by part of the country.  Even the woman behind the car hire counter at the airport didn't know there was a golf course there, despite the course being ten minutes away. On the main road. With a not-easy-to-miss sign.

It's routed over a series of ridges that venture from mild to wild, which, when coupled with the ever present fierce wind, ensure a lot of control is needed into the generally small greens.  The greens are modestly contoured, yet would be brutally quick in any sort of dry weather, which of course rarely happens in NSW, the rain capital of the world.

First hole is a middle-length par four.  It's important to place your teeshots the correct length on many holes.  Here, it would be be either around 200 metres, or around 260.  Anything in between leaves a horrible shot off a sharply downsloping fairway to a knob green.





Coming up short at Newcastle often means a long bunker shot to an elevated green.


Missing right isn't much fun, either.


The third hole is a long 218 metre par three played downhill.  A brilliant half-par hole, and the epitome of a strategic par three for the average hitter, who has to carry this bunker some 170 metres from the tee for a straightforward chip down the length of the green. 



Missing wide right isn't the best idea.


The fourth hole is a 418 metre par five.  Fairly flat for the first couple of hundred metres, the tee shot must flirt with this nest of bunkers.


With the terrain around the bunkers sloping a little right to left, missing left in these bunkers again means an imposing uphill bunker shot to a barely visible pin.


The fifth is a 367 metre or so par four over some wildly tumbling land.  Best line is left off the tee. One of the more famous holes.


Going right leaves this rather unpalatable affair.


From behind. 


The sixth is of a similar length, and running in the opposite direction.  A tee ball nestling close to the dune on the left offers as flat a lie as you are likely to find on the first 14 holes.


From the ideal landing spot.


Missing the green short again leaves a difficult uphill pitch or bunker shot to a barely-sighted flag.


Seven is a justly famous par three around 150 metres, playing slightly downhill and generally downwind to boot.


Ten is a fantastic par five played over some of the most voluptuous dunes imaginable.  Around 480 metres, carefully placing the drive the correct distance gives you this view for your second.


Looking back from the last dune before the green toward the tee.







Eleven is another mid-length par four.  Played from a chute of trees, the club are lucky to have a greenkeeper on top of his game, even if one of his assistants does think Metropolitan is the best course in Australia.  There was a lot of work going on trimming back tree lines that may affect teeshots. 


Highlighting Tom Doak's "perfect rolls" in the fairway.




Twelve is a terrific par three of around 170 metres.  The first bunker is quite adept at hindering depth perception. 



Thirteen is a short par five of around 445 metres.  Intitially I thought it may be one of the best holes on the course, but I changed my mind the next day.  The fairway falls off beautifully on the right hand side into some wild territory, but there is absolutely no reason to flirt with the drop off, as the green is bunkered both sides, as is the lay-up area.



The layup.


The course loses a little of its lustre after 12.  The bunkers are a little more simplistic, and often placed in strange spots, like on the sides of dunes away from play.  However, the club do manage to incorporate some native wildlife into the routing.



Eighteen is a fine finishing hole that returns to the rumpled dunesland after the previous few flattish holes.  It's around 380 metres back into the prevailing wind.






There was quite a smorgasbord of international tourists playing the course the two days I was there, which is terrific.  Given that it is a two hour drive north of Sydney, it is a course you must really want to play as opposed to just notching up another one.

Since it is a course of almost perpetual blindness, either from the tee, or into the greens, it really is an old-fashioned test.  Now if they could just get rid of the carts...
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 07:30:13 AM by Mark Ferguson »

Scott Warren

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 07:45:22 AM »
The greens are modestly contoured, yet would be brutally quick in any sort of dry weather, which of course rarely happens in NSW, the rain capital of the world.

Is that a joke?

Most of the state has been in drought for the lion's share of the past 15 years.

Philip Gawith

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 07:57:30 AM »
The course did not look and feel like that Mark when Jason (Topp) and I had our mad and memorable 9 holes on Jan 1 2006, played when the temperature was 42 degrees. 5-7 are memorable holes, though by that stage we were already far gone and just looking for the shade, so the architectural merits were not front of mind! I think it was in the left rough on the 9th that there was a sign saying "Beware of the snakes"??!!

Mark_F

Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 08:25:23 AM »
The greens are modestly contoured, yet would be brutally quick in any sort of dry weather, which of course rarely happens in NSW, the rain capital of the world.

Is that a joke?

Most of the state has been in drought for the lion's share of the past 15 years.

I beg to differ.  It has bucketed down each time I have been there.   And aren't you in the UK at the moment?  So I fail to see how you can have any sort of opinion on how much water falls from the sky in NSW these days.

I think it was in the left rough on the 9th that there was a sign saying "Beware of the snakes"??!!

There were a few signs like that around, Philip.  Good thing I hit it straight. ;)




Matthew Mollica

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 08:28:18 AM »
Great work once again Mark.
Hope you enjoyed the games there.
I really appreciate the commentary and the images.
Stockton is indeed a wonderful course.

Had the tree clearing been perfomed to the left of 6 as yet?

I'm glad you like 12. I love it.
A boldly tilted and tiny green for the length of the shot, and a great test.

MM

P.S. You're right with the rain. Pelted down when I was last there, and 2007 saw significant flooding across the course, with parts of 8 and 9 under water months after the deluge.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 08:31:23 AM by Matthew Mollica »
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Scott Warren

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 08:46:08 AM »
The greens are modestly contoured, yet would be brutally quick in any sort of dry weather, which of course rarely happens in NSW, the rain capital of the world.

--------

Is that a joke?
Most of the state has been in drought for the lion's share of the past 15 years.

--------

I beg to differ.  It has bucketed down each time I have been there.   And aren't you in the UK at the moment?  So I fail to see how you can have any sort of opinion on how much water falls from the sky in NSW these days.

25 years within 90 mins of Newcastle, the past five months in UK...

It only rains when you Mexicans come up so you'll feel more at home. Good old NSW hospitality.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 08:59:44 AM by Scott Warren »

Mark_F

Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 08:46:57 AM »
Great work once again Mark.
Hope you enjoyed the games there.
I really appreciate the commentary and the images.
Stockton is indeed a wonderful course.

Had the tree clearing been perfomed to the left of 6 as yet?

I'm glad you like 12. I love it.
A boldly tilted and tiny green for the length of the shot, and a great test.

MM

P.S. You're right with the rain. Pelted down when I was last there, and 2007 saw significant flooding across the course, with parts of 8 and 9 under water months after the deluge.

Thanks Matt.

I played on Sunday when it BUCKETED down every second hole like I have never witnessed before.  Everyone else was running off the course, but I boldly struck out in the spirit of adventure.   If Brumby ran a pipeline from the 15th and 17th fairways, Melbourne's water problems would be solved in an instant, and the fairways would still be so wet Moses would struggle to make it across.

It's a great atmosphere.  Friendly members and staff, great clubhouse, fun course that they maintain in the right manner.  And three hour rounds!

Six didn't appear to have too many trees, but don't rely on me for the definitive opinion - I was in prime position both times. :)

Twelve is a fab three. If KH's 5th was half as good, it would make KH 3 look poor... 




Andrew Summerell

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 08:54:29 AM »
I’ve just gotten back from a gig & am a little tired. I may post more in a day or two when I have time.

Mark,

Thanks for the photos. I’m sorry I wasn’t around to host you.

Scott,

Unlike the rest of NSW, Newcastle has never had water restrictions.

Matt,

The tree clearing is mostly being done by a team of 6 members every Monday morning with the help & guidance of Matthew our superintendent. It’s an inch-by-inch process. They have cleared between 5 – 10m on the left side of the 6th, but they could go another 15m. They have also cleared just out from the tee on a few holes like #8 & #14, as well as finding an old dam in the bush between 13 & 14.

I’ll try to find some older photos that show how much has been cleared.

RJ_Daley

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 01:00:18 PM »
Here should be an aerial link for those who like to see how the courses are situated and routed.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-32.868486,151.798203&spn=0.005785,0.01708&t=h&z=16
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Sean_A

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 03:32:00 AM »
Mark

Thanks for the look at NSW.  Just looking at the pix I loved the first hole with its semi volcano green, but more interestingly and my favourite element I saw amongst the pix was that great left greenside on #1.  Its a pity more of the bunkering isn't in that style or position.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 03:52:10 AM »
Great review Mark

Nice to see you travel North of the border for a change  ;D

Only comment I disagree with is this...

The third hole is a long 218 metre par three played downhill.  A brilliant half-par hole, and the epitome of a strategic par three for the average hitter, who has to carry this bunker some 170 metres from the tee for a straightforward chip down the length of the green. 

I reckon it's a very poor long P3 - one is pretty much forced to hit driver (too much carry)...it's overbunkered....and too narrow from either side. It and 16 are a blight on the course IMO and it's a pity becasue 7 and 12 are very good

Mark_F

Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 05:33:56 AM »
Great review Mark

Nice to see you travel North of the border for a change  ;D

Yes, only the fourth time I have been out of Victoria, not counting overseas trips.  At least your water tastes better than Adelaide's. :D

Only comment I disagree with is this...

The third hole is a long 218 metre par three played downhill.  A brilliant half-par hole, and the epitome of a strategic par three for the average hitter, who has to carry this bunker some 170 metres from the tee for a straightforward chip down the length of the green. 

I reckon it's a very poor long P3 - one is pretty much forced to hit driver (too much carry)...it's overbunkered....and too narrow from either side. It and 16 are a blight on the course IMO and it's a pity becasue 7 and 12 are very good

Interesting perspective Kevin.  I think 3 works as a very good long par three because it is at least a club downhill, but you are only forced to hit driver if you want to hit the green, which is generally going to beyond anyone above about a 10-12 handicap.

So the mid-capper can hit an iron/hybrid over the bunker of around 170 metres, and have a very easy and straightforward chip up the green, maybe besting a better player who sprayed it wide.

I agree with you about 16.  I'm not that wrapped in having two such long par threes, unless they are both very good, and if 16 was a more "normal' length, I don't think 3 would raise a fuss.


Mark
Thanks for the look at NSW.  Just looking at the pix I loved the first hole with its semi volcano green, but more interestingly and my favourite element I saw amongst the pix was that great left greenside on #1.  Its a pity more of the bunkering isn't in that style or position.
Ciao

Sean,

Yes, that bunker on one is a ripper.  You would love that there are several bunkerless fairways?

« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 05:36:31 AM by Mark Ferguson »

Matthew Mollica

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 07:17:50 AM »
Kevin,

I'm surprised you don't like 3. I'm another in the camp who really likes it.
It plays shorter than the measure suggests, and asks a very clear question from the tee.

Great angles, options for a safe 4, and a sting for the par seeker who can't play as he'd hope.

I often hear one famous Mexican espouse the virtues of shortening that hole, and lengthening 4.
It'd be vandalsim if you ask me.

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Mike_Clayton

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 08:48:59 AM »
Matt,

The 4th is 418 meters and a par five.
I understand the second shot is uphill but it is a real stretch to call a hole of that length a par five.
There look to be seven fairway bunkers on the right of the  drive.
Is this a classic case of taking an 'easy' hole and adding hazards in a effort to make it more difficult - as opposed to calling it what it is - a par four - and removing the hazards?
Surely if the hole was renamed as a par four there would be no one suggesting it be made more difficult.

How would 3 be if there was an alternate back tee so it could be played as a par four on occasion?

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 09:04:23 AM »
Kevin,

I'm surprised you don't like 3.

<snip>

I often hear one famous Mexican espouse the virtues of shortening that hole, and lengthening 4.
It'd be vandalsim if you ask me.

MM

MM

I agree with that "famous Mexican"  :D Hole # 4 could be taken back to the right quite easily making it more of a double dogleg.

Mark alluded to another aspect of # 3 that I dont like - it's virtually the same distance as 16 - particularly taking into the fact that it's downhill. It plays around 217m and the later plays at 212m off the plates. Why not make a real short hole of around 110 - 120m  ? then you'd have the following:

# 3 = 120m
# 7 = 148m
# 12 = 173m
#16 =212m

That said - I'd change 16 before any other hole on the course. Last time I was up there with our resident local we discussed it at length and I believe I recall him suggesting moving the green into the dune and I reckon that would work great with moving the tee to the right and into the tree area from where it currently is ? As it stands it's a very "bland" hole with absolutely no character whatsoever.

Brian Walshe

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2009, 10:08:19 AM »
I suppose the Mexican in question better comment......

Mark,

Great photos.  They really capture the feel of the course.  You were lucky it was raining, the last time I was there 5 and 6 featured some of the biggest mosquitos I've ever seen.

Matty,

3 is poor.  It's too long for a lot of players at 220m, even playing downhill. Does a hole of that length need what is in effect a narrow green bunkered on both sides when you consider most of the members would need driver? How many guys do you know can hit a target 12m wide with a driver?  4 is really not even a half par hole at 418m and the 8 (you missed one Mike) bunkers on the inside of the drive aren't exactly pretty.  Pull the 3rd green back and to the right and sit the green on the edge of the swale so anything short rolled back down.  That allows you to pull the 4th tee back to where the 3rd green is today and it plays to just over 450m.  Ran talks about the fact you get 8 shots on the two holes and take them as you want but realistically neither is a great hole as they stand.

With 16 at over 200m you don't exactly lose your long par 3 although I agree with Andrew that 16 isn't all that great a hole.

Andrew,

I've always been impressed with the work at Newcastle.  I remember a few years ago playing and finding a bunker that I didn't remember.  Dragged out the old yardage chart and it wasn't on it.  Member I was playing with admitted it had been added but it really looked like it had been there forever.


Scott Warren

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2009, 10:54:36 AM »
Fellas,

Granted I have only played the course once, but after our round over a beer, my partners and I centred on the 3rd as one that hung in our mind as a speedbump on the rollicking run from 18-9 (we started on the 10th).

Looking at the course since, I had the idea of moving the tee on the 3rd forward and to the right, into the trees separating the hole from the range. IMO it would provide a better par three of 170/180-odd metres, with the green then at a 45-degree angle, more or less, and the run-on approach requiring a shot moving from left to right. You could also enlarge the short left trap or move it to the right to play with the perception of how much room is there in front of the green.

Much like this:


What are your thoughts on such a move? *braces himself*
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 11:16:09 AM by Scott Warren »

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2009, 06:38:24 PM »
Mike,

I think that is a great idea. The original masterplan seems to suggest Apperly meant the 3rd to be a short 2 shot hole with the option of going for the green for the longer hitter. In the mid 30’s only longer hitters could have carried that short bunker & the green was smaller (hard to believe, I know) as the front third of the green was added about 20 years ago.

There is a bit of space behind the tee, but the land drops off sharply, so it would need a fair amount of fill. A par 4 of about 265m would make the carry over the short bunker of 220m with plenty of room out to the right for the lay up tee shot, but the more difficult pitch.

The 4th could work well as a par 4 (It call it a par 4 on Championship days). The tee could be extended forward to allow normal play at 380 – 390m & use the back tee for medal play. The fairway bunkers would need to be moved right similar to the flanking bunkers at Kingston Heath’s 2nd & 17th.

P.S. I mentioned the shorter tee on the 4th idea to Ross but he didn’t like it.

The other hole in question, the 16th, has a little mound running off the larger hill to the left where the 17th tee stands that would make a lovely reverse Redan at 190m. The mound is where the lip to the front left bunker is. It’s enough to allow a shot to run around & there is plenty of room for the green to the right. Just a thought!

Sean_A

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2009, 06:43:56 PM »
Great review Mark

Nice to see you travel North of the border for a change  ;D

Yes, only the fourth time I have been out of Victoria, not counting overseas trips.  At least your water tastes better than Adelaide's. :D

Only comment I disagree with is this...

The third hole is a long 218 metre par three played downhill.  A brilliant half-par hole, and the epitome of a strategic par three for the average hitter, who has to carry this bunker some 170 metres from the tee for a straightforward chip down the length of the green. 

I reckon it's a very poor long P3 - one is pretty much forced to hit driver (too much carry)...it's overbunkered....and too narrow from either side. It and 16 are a blight on the course IMO and it's a pity becasue 7 and 12 are very good

Interesting perspective Kevin.  I think 3 works as a very good long par three because it is at least a club downhill, but you are only forced to hit driver if you want to hit the green, which is generally going to beyond anyone above about a 10-12 handicap.

So the mid-capper can hit an iron/hybrid over the bunker of around 170 metres, and have a very easy and straightforward chip up the green, maybe besting a better player who sprayed it wide.

I agree with you about 16.  I'm not that wrapped in having two such long par threes, unless they are both very good, and if 16 was a more "normal' length, I don't think 3 would raise a fuss.


Mark
Thanks for the look at NSW.  Just looking at the pix I loved the first hole with its semi volcano green, but more interestingly and my favourite element I saw amongst the pix was that great left greenside on #1.  Its a pity more of the bunkering isn't in that style or position.
Ciao

Sean,

Yes, that bunker on one is a ripper.  You would love that there are several bunkerless fairways?



Mark

I don't get a sense that the course has a lot of bunkerless fairways.  Though, from looking at the Melbourne courses, the bunkering in general seems uninspired.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Andrew Summerell

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2009, 06:50:42 PM »


I don't get a sense that the course has a lot of bunkerless fairways.  Though, from looking at the Melbourne courses, the bunkering in general seems uninspired.

Ciao
Sean,
The bunkering doesn't look flash, but most of it is in the right spots. Interestingly, Apperly's original masterplan shows quite a few bunkers that weren't built.

Any future work on the course needs to be address as if the course is a Melbourne sandbelt course, because that's what it is; only it's hundreds of km's from Melbourne.

Mark_F

Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2009, 07:45:00 PM »
I suppose the Mexican in question better comment......

Mark,

Great photos.  They really capture the feel of the course.  You were lucky it was raining, the last time I was there 5 and 6 featured some of the biggest mosquitos I've ever seen.

Brian,

Don't worry, they have migrated to the 12th and 13th holes, where they caught up with me on Monday.  Thank heaven's that Bushman's repellant works as advertised, otherwise I would have been dragged off into the bushes and disemboweled.

Mark

I don't get a sense that the course has a lot of bunkerless fairways.  Though, from looking at the Melbourne courses, the bunkering in general seems uninspired.
Ciao

Sean,

The first, second (not shown), fifth, sixth, eighth, tenth and I think 15 are.


Andrew Summerell

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2009, 07:50:41 PM »

Sean,

The first, second (not shown), fifth, sixth, eighth, tenth and I think 15 are.


Mark,

The 1st & 2nd share about 5 fairway bunkers. You probably hit it so straight you didn't notice.

Mark_F

Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2009, 08:07:14 PM »

Sean,

The first, second (not shown), fifth, sixth, eighth, tenth and I think 15 are.


Mark,

The 1st & 2nd share about 5 fairway bunkers. You probably hit it so straight you didn't notice.

Andrew,

Either that or I am still tired from having to get up at 4.00 am on Sunday to get a flight all the way up to that miserable, rain-soaked wasteland called NSW.  Good thing Newcastle was worth it. :) I haven't seen any rain in Melbourne since I arrived back, of course.  Just some beautiful light to photograph in. 

I am still struggling to place where the fairway bunkers on two are... They must be inside the treelines on the left, since that is the only time I see the left side of a golf course.

Brian Walshe

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2009, 08:25:10 PM »
Andrew,

I remember playing Newcastle before the changes to the 3rd green.  Was it 20 years ago?  A would have put it a bit less than that.  Did they only add to the front of the green.  I seem to remember far more significant changes to the green complex.  Are there any photos of the old green?


Andrew Summerell

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Re: Some Pics of Ran's Beloved Newcastle
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2009, 08:44:00 PM »

Andrew,

Either that or I am still tired from having to get up at 4.00 am on Sunday to get a flight all the way up to that miserable, rain-soaked wasteland called NSW.  Good thing Newcastle was worth it. :) I haven't seen any rain in Melbourne since I arrived back, of course.  Just some beautiful light to photograph in. 

I am still struggling to place where the fairway bunkers on two are... They must be inside the treelines on the left, since that is the only time I see the left side of a golf course.

Mark,

These are the ones that the 1st & the 2nd share, then there is the long one up the left of the 2nd. I probably have some better photos on my computer at home, but I'm about a thousand miles from home at the moment so Google Earth will have to do.


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