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David Kelly

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Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2009, 05:05:25 PM »
Also ... can someone please trim the trees in the right hand bunker / hazard short of the green on the 16th.  Several of us spent wayyyyy too much time looking for the golf ball there.  It might be nice and all, but it's really slowing play down.

I'll have them get on that right away.  Anything else?
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2009, 05:07:06 PM »
Also ... can someone please trim the trees in the right hand bunker / hazard short of the green on the 16th.  Several of us spent wayyyyy too much time looking for the golf ball there.  It might be nice and all, but it's really slowing play down.

I'll have them get on that right away.  Anything else?

Send corporate jet up to pick me up on Monday.  Need another round there asap. Thanks.

R_Paulis

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Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2009, 12:49:06 PM »
After reading this thread I returned to RC this week after a 9 month sabbatical from golf. Now I remember why we played 50 rounds in one year. Although the course did not, the new environmental signage was a disappointment.

ed_getka

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Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2009, 02:16:45 PM »
What do you find similar about the 3rd and 12th other than they are both down-canyon, driveable par 4s?

One places the demand on the tee shot, the other on the approach shot.  One has a severe green, the other probably the easiest green on the course, one has death long and right, the other has no death around the green at all, save for maybe extremely long and left.  One has clear visual cues as to directionality off the tee, and options, the other is fairly a blank canvas and can be argued as too easy.  One defends quite a bit using sand, the other if you don't go left has no sand to contend with, One you can see the green, the other you cannot.


Very nice synopsis. I hadn't thought about those two holes like that.  Played Hillandale on Thursday. What a great value at $20.

Tom Huckaby,
     Please take note. I have golfed at Occoneechee and Hillandale. These  courses cost $20. Of course the conditions aren't perfect, but there are interesting holes and both courses are a great value.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Ross Waldorf

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2009, 11:18:43 PM »
It was really a pleasure to see my home course play host to KP this year -- in particular it's nice to hear comments from a group of architecturally-astute players. Those of us who call Rustic home are certainly proud of the place -- it's truly a joy to play on a regular basis.

Thanks to Tom Huckaby (nice meeting you, by the way, Tom -- sorry you had to play and run) for the very heartfelt words that opened this post. I thought I'd spend a few minutes babbling in response, since I can always find something to say about Rustic Canyon. This might just go on for awhile, so pardon me in advance for the long-winded post.

First, I agree wholeheartedly with Tom. It's great that a player with as much varied experience on different golf courses was so strongly moved by Rustic Canyon. It's always affected me that way, but while I've played enough great courses to know what they're like, my experience is somewhat limited compared to many of you. I've always felt that Rustic can hold its head high up against any of the truly great courses I've played. For example, the best course I've seen in the LA area is Riviera, but I think when comparing the two it's much closer than many might expect.

For those of you who have only gotten to experience the course in the kind of conditions we saw last Sunday, let me say that the KP round might have been about the most difficult combination of wind and firmness I've seen at Rustic over the years -- the place really bared its teeth for the King's Putter. Which was probably on balance a good thing, since a tournament is the perfect place for a golf course to play hard, and to make the players stay focused if they want to put up a good number. But a representative sample of rounds throughout the year will reveal a golf course that allows for plenty of birdies, and for perhaps a bit more pure fun that what we saw on Sunday.

Tom's point about the spiritual nature of the course is something that I hold close to my heart, having played many a round on a beautiful afternoon where you get to the 16th tee late in the day and can just take in the view of the canyon in dramatic, early evening light. Have a look around in those conditions and it's pretty stunning to think that a 45 minute drive gets you into the heart of Los Angeles (depending on our fabulous traffic, of course!). The back nine is a lovely place for a stroll, and if I'm not mistaken, most of the surrounding land belongs to Ventura County, so we won't be seeing the place turn into a housing development course any time soon. Even those "unsightly houses" that bug Brad Klein at the bottom of the front nine are a positive for me, in that they remind the player (who may have only plunked down about $30 if the round is a mid-week one) that he's not at some exclusive club in a tony part of town, but rather just knocking it around on a municipal golf course just like the ones I grew up on. Nice.

Some specific responses to a few things people have said in this post:

I've never really understood the complaint about the par fives playing up canyon being similar -- for me they all play rather differently, although I do get the point about so many going in the same direction. I think the point (maybe it was Lou's?) about yardage being more meaningless at Rustic than at any other course I know is probably the reason I personally don't place much stock in that criticism. But if it bugs a player, it bugs him. I think Gil, Jim and Geoff made specific choices about the routing in which the positives far outweigh the negatives.

For example -- I love the way the course basically goes up and down the canyon with no real action that goes side to side. I love it because it harkens back to the old Scottish out and back routings, which lends a sense of history to the place -- a sense that this course continues a tradition that goes back to golf's beginnings. There's something romantic about that, and it also makes the walk very much of a journey, because you wander far away from the clubhouse in both directions. I also think that the out and back, with-the-canyon nature of the routing really maximizes the "canyon effect" -- because it affects approach distances very strongly since you're basically always going either up- or downhill. And the canyon effect is for me the thing at Rustic that becomes its most mystical feature -- after playing the place many, many times I still get totally befuddled by approach distances sometimes and especially putts. It gets into your head in a fantastic way to the point where you're sometimes trying to remember how much to take the canyon into consideration when you read a putt. I always try to stay on the 16th green with newcomers after everybody holes out, and hit a putt all the way across it from left to right. People see that green and think it's got a strong tilt from back to front, and then they watch open-mouthed as a putt goes the full width of the green on a virtually dead-straight line. Love that.

Another issue that’s come up here is the point about the tightly mown approaches tending to push the player into one type of shot – namely putting. Just as a quick note, I can think of quite a few places not far off of greens that have areas iof longer grass: long on 2, long on 9, all around 8, long and left on 10 all come to mind. But having said that, I think one of the great things about Rustic Canyon is that it’s a particular type of course, and that it does not try to be all things to all people. The approaches are a big, big part of how the course was designed, and they tend to create a certain style of play – a style that we don’t see all that often here in the US. I think the simple elegance of that kind of design is just fine as is – there is a purity of intention in the architecture that simply is what it is. I like that the course doesn’t try to be everything all at once.

I think that’s probably why holes 9 and 12 are two of my favorites on the course. The philosophy of design here tends generally toward less is more. In the case of 9 that means that the tee shot and to some extent the 2nd are rather low key, because everything on that hole revolves around what might be the most interesting green on the golf course. And I admire what Gil, Jim and Geoff were up to when they decided that creating a particularly testing tee shot wasn’t what the hole was about – rather the hole is about the simplicity of choosing a way to get to the green, and how to approach that green. The more times you play 9, the more respect you’ll have for the amazing green there.

12 is kind of similar. I absolutely love that there are literally no visual cues in the fairway to help you. The more you stare out at that tee shot, the more non-descript it becomes. That can create uncertainty – which is part of the “mental” game Tom Huckaby talks about. I have seen countless people (me, especially!) plan to hit a simple shot out to the right on 12 and then somehow manage an over the top pull into the left bunker, or just down the left side. Your mind kind of looks at that green hiding there behind the tree and steers your swing in that direction, because -- why would you want to go right? I mean the green is only 295 yards away downhill! And suddenly you have to hit that approach shot to a firm green tilted away from you with a big falloff beyond. Bogeys and worse are common from the left. But the fact that you could make a 2 with two great shots only increases the beauty of the hole for me. Not every hole should be tough. Try playing 12 with a back or middle pin with a Santa Ana wind like we saw last week, though, and it definitely won't feel like such a pushover.

Anyway – I’ve babbled on way too long. Thanks to everyone for making me feel so welcome at the KP. And if you’ve made it through this ridiculously long essay on the joys of Rustic Canyon, thanks much for your attention. Just felt like singing its praises to a crowd who’d understand what I was talking about, even if we don’t necessarily see eye to eye on everything.

Cheers,
R



DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #105 on: April 27, 2009, 02:17:26 PM »
Ross,

Thanks for chiming in.   

While I understand why those who haven't played the course much might come up with the comment, I too am always a bit baffled by the comments about the similarities of the par fives.   Most who have played their regularly see it differently, and while I have given it my best in the past,  I doubt there is anything anyone can write to change any minds on this, other than to encourage them to play it a few more times.  Courses like Rustic just won't be fully understood after a just few plays in a limited array of conditions, and while that does not translate well in such things as ratings, it is a large part of a golf course's charm.

Shoot me an IM if you are interested in coming out early some Sunday.  This goes for others as well, if they don't mind that we are generally walkers and try to set a reasonable pace. 

__________________

This thread may be about dead, but I am curious about any thoughts on 11.     

As some of you know, the hazard area on the left about 100 yards short of the green got quite a lot more intrusive into the fairway as a result of the large flood.   While the hole has always been a challenge for shorter hitters on Santa Ana wind days, it is even more so now, as it requires the golfer to either to carry the hazard area on the second shot, lay up short, or skirt down the narrow passage on the right.     

For those who haven't seen the hole since before the floods, what did you think of the change?     For others, any observations on how the hole played?   
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #106 on: April 27, 2009, 02:30:13 PM »
Re 11, I would fall under:

For those who haven't seen the hole since before the floods, what did you think of the change?

I think you laid it out perfectly:

While the hole has always been a challenge for shorter hitters on Santa Ana wind days, it is even more so now, as it requires the golfer to either to carry the hazard area on the second shot, lay up short, or skirt down the narrow passage on the right.

I just tend to like uncertainty more than certainty... aren't the choices more defined as it is now?  Not sure that's a better thing, even if the hole is now that much tougher...  but man it really is a lot scarier now - and it was pretty damn scary before as I recall.

TH

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #107 on: April 27, 2009, 05:06:01 PM »
Tom, the choices may be more defined now and that is definitely one legitimate basis for comparison.

That being said, I am not sure too many recognized the option of laying up well short before.   There was trouble left and bunkers short right some native across the path on the right, but there was also enough fairway that one could just try to slap a fairway wood or long iron up toward the green, because there was nothing to worry about short.   If you hit it straight ( a big 'if') there wasn't much of a consequence for a poorly judged or executed shot.   

In contrast, now the hazard forces one's hand a bit, and as a short hitter I enjoy the dilemma it creates for me.   If you are going to go for it, you had better hit it well enough to get almost to the green, and if you are going to lay up, it is well back, or else you have to flirt with the narrow fairway right.   This I think creates a bit more pressure for even the longer and better players.   Add in the par factor-- no one wants to lay up on a par 4, no matter the conditions or their ability-- and I think you have the hazard making for some pretty interesting decisions in these certain conditions.

Don't get me wrong, Tom, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you.  I liked the hole before the bunker and probably have said the same thing about having less defined choices before, and I know others have expressed this view.  I don't know which way I prefer.   Either way the hole worked well, in my opinion.  Either way, since nature created the waste area, I am glad they left it. 

I played the hole as a par 5 both of my roundson the day of the the recent KP, and was happy with the result both times.  While I am a short hitting hack, I think I heard that Lynn Shackelford also played it as a par 5.   It wouldn't surprise me if he did, because I have seen him do it similar conditions, and if he did play it as a par 5, I'd be surprised if he lost the hole.   Anyone know?

Did anyone else choose to lay up or see anyone laying up?  If so, how'd they do versus those that went for it?  Anyone wish they had played it differently in retrospect?   

Can anyone imagine that a knock on this hole early in its life was that it was too short and too easy?   I don't exactly know why, but the entire course does play quite a bit longer than it did in the first few years.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 05:10:04 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #108 on: April 27, 2009, 05:24:25 PM »
That all works for me, David.

And I can certainly see playing this as a three shot hole.  I know I did so myself one of the rounds the last time KP was there - it wasn't much by choice, it was just after a weak drive... 250 or so into the wind, that rather forced my hand.  I recall hitting the ball way right on the 2nd and not ending up dead.

In any case, not sure which was was better, as I say.  It was a freakin' great hole before and it's a freakin' great hole now. 

And man if anyone ever called this hole too short and too easy, he plays a game with which I am unfamiliar. I sure hope it wasn't ME who said that!

 ;D


Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #109 on: April 27, 2009, 06:16:05 PM »
I screwed up #11 big time because I remembered the way that left side hazard (bunker? waste area? canyon?) USED TO BE rather than how it now IS  :o and rolled a driver off the deck into a really ugly lie.  I thought I had hit it on an okay line and soon realized it was now too far left.

I would play it like a par 5 next time into the wind, it is a big hole without the wind, but that Sunday it was a very big hole.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2009, 06:44:24 PM »
DMoriarty,

I am of the opinion that the tee shot is the most important shot in golf.  Hit it a decent distance in the fairway or light rough and most holes play much easier.  The four up-canyon par fives play similarly into the wind for me.  My tee shot on those holes is the same, a low running draw, preferably down the center.  The second shot is typically another low draw, most often with a 3-wood or a 3-iron.  Downwind the holes play somewhat differently, perhaps using a 3 metalwood to lay back from the crossing washes on two of the holes.

With a north wind, #3 and 12 also play similarly for me.  Sunday I hit a driver over the left bunker on 3 leaving me on the apron some 40' from the hole.  Ditto for #12 where I pulled it a bit too much and ended in the bunker 60' from the hole.  A medium-long player probably hits a 3 metal to the green on both holes.  I understand that there optimal angles to both greens, but though I am usually an okay wedge player, I rather be very close to the green than 100 yards back, particularly down-canyon.

As to #11, I like a difficult par 4 and this one plays long when 14 and 16 play short.  From the blue tees I hit a good low draw to 190 yards, and my punch 3-iron took one bad hop left into the left bunker, leaving me a relatively easy shot (to 6' which I then missed).  I have no issue with Mother Nature on this hole and the decision to not put it back to its original configuration.

You are right about the effect of the weather on how the course plays.  I would add course setup to that because with dry, firm, windy conditions, someone who wanted to make a point could do it easily.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #111 on: April 27, 2009, 10:13:47 PM »
DMoriarty,

I am of the opinion that the tee shot is the most important shot in golf.  Hit it a decent distance in the fairway or light rough and most holes play much easier.  The four up-canyon par fives play similarly into the wind for me.  My tee shot on those holes is the same, a low running draw, preferably down the center.  The second shot is typically another low draw, most often with a 3-wood or a 3-iron.  Downwind the holes play somewhat differently, perhaps using a 3 metalwood to lay back from the crossing washes on two of the holes.

With a north wind, #3 and 12 also play similarly for me.  Sunday I hit a driver over the left bunker on 3 leaving me on the apron some 40' from the hole.  Ditto for #12 where I pulled it a bit too much and ended in the bunker 60' from the hole.  A medium-long player probably hits a 3 metal to the green on both holes.  I understand that there optimal angles to both greens, but though I am usually an okay wedge player, I rather be very close to the green than 100 yards back, particularly down-canyon.

That's fine Lou, I understand.  I see it differently in both cases, but I am sure nothing I can write would change your mind.  Repeat plays under a variety of conditions might, however.   Or not.

Quote
You are right about the effect of the weather on how the course plays.  I would add course setup to that because with dry, firm, windy conditions, someone who wanted to make a point could do it easily.

I am sure one could try to make a point, but I assure you no one was trying to make a point at the KP, other than to pick some fun and interesting pin placements.    The wind was not forecast when the pins were picked, and a number of them were changed that morning because of the wind, so as to make them less difficult and more playable.   The pin on the 14th inadvertently ended up on a strange ridge, and 15 played very strangely for reasons I do not quite understand, but other than that I thought the pins were a lot of fun.   Anyone who found them over-the-top would have likely found the same for any other mixture of pins out there.   Almost all the pins at Rustic present different challenges, and some of those easiest to approach are hardest to putt, so even defining what is easy and hard is difficult to determine.    (I recall attending a qualifier at Rustic where an official moved the pin on 13 out of probably the easiest birdie spot to a much more difficult spot because he thought the first position was entirely unfair.)    One could argue that many of the pins were set in relatively easy locations, and only a few were set in difficult spots. 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 10:44:10 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #112 on: April 27, 2009, 10:25:45 PM »
Anyone have some before and after pics to illustrate the changes to the 11th?

I unfortunately did not get the opportunity to play in the "before" shape.

Anyway, I do think for the mid handicapper it plays more like a par 5 in the conditions we had.  The risk in going for it in two just feels like too much.  Pull it and you're into the expanded waste / canyon area.  Push it and you're into the right greenside bunker or into the rough and maybe not being able to hold the green.

In my case I tried to layup right and short of the right greenside bunker knowing I hadn't been stricking my 3W from the deck well that day.
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2009, 11:50:42 PM »
Anyone have some before and after pics to illustrate the changes to the 11th?

I unfortunately did not get the opportunity to play in the "before" shape.

Ran's profile of the course has a number of before pictures, just scroll down to the 11th hole.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/rusticcanyon1.html

Suffice it to say that the waste area/bunkering now encroaches into the fairway more, is much deeper, and is much more unkempt.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #114 on: April 28, 2009, 12:51:48 AM »
Not sure I can add a lot to the discussion, but I just wanted throw in a few comments.

This year's KP was my first visit to Rustic Canyon.  I've heard a lot about this course and it certainly did not disappoint.  Despite the challenging windy conditions, I had an absolute blast.

Tee to green I played a pretty good game.  I tend to hit a very low ball, so the wind did not bother me mentally all that much.  I had but two stray shots into the ESA.  Once I got to the greens, that was another story.  Just to tell you how my round went - I started with two consecutive GIRs and walked away from both holes with bogeys.  On #4, I hit the green, but on the wrong side of the much discussed hump. Another 3 putt.  My second on #5 found the ESA, dropped the third on the edge of the wash and managed to run a low 5-wood all the way onto the green. I then watched in horror as my slightly downhill right to left 5 footer for par just missed the cup then gained speed aided by the 30mph wind and rolled off the green.  Three more putts and I walk off with an eight.  Ended up shooting a 90 with 41 putts.

Now I provide that bit of setup because I think many golfers might come away a little sour given those circumstances, however, despite my struggles, I quite simply enjoyed every minute and had a smile on my face for the whole day.  I think that says something about the golf course.

Many things contribute to the pleasure of playing Rustic, including the obvious and already mentioned peaceful, natural setting, generous playing areas, choices and varied shot options, rugged and seemingly random bunkering, shaved green surrounds, bold green contours, etc.   But what I really like is that Rustic is another course that represents the welcome paradigm shift in modern course design - away from the formulaic rubber stamp layouts, embracing instead a throwback to the days when quirk and character were welcome.

On top of all that, $60 prime time rate, an absolute bargain.

For my money, Rustic is a must play when visiting the area, and I would go as far as to say it even deserves a special visit.  I know I look forward to returning.   I think it is a course that would remain interesting and challenging for many repeat plays.




Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #115 on: April 28, 2009, 12:13:31 PM »

For my money, Rustic is a must play when visiting the area, and I would go as far as to say it even deserves a special visit.  I know I look forward to returning.   I think it is a course that would remain interesting and challenging for many repeat plays.


I fully endorse the above, though I think that variety and the offering of shot options are qualities overly attributed to the course.  For the most part, RC provides enough room to let loose with the driver.  It fits my eye from the tee.

However, like many courses that are highly regarded on this site, the primary challenge comes from the complicated green complexes.  These in turn are highly dependent on the very difficult to assess canyon effect.  Down and side canyon shots require more imagination and deft touch than most infrequent customers possess.  The seemingly frequent considerable winds only accentuate the difficulty of the approach shots and putting.

I don't think that RC is anachronistic as much as it is unique in the U.S.  Where most courses here reward the aerial game, RC appears to require the shots to be played along the ground.  This might be mitigated somewhat with an up-canyon wind (which might allow a hoisted shot to hit more softly and provide some control).  With the wind from the north and the canyon running steeply downward in the same orientation, I was knocking my shots down in both directions and just hoping that my next shot was coming back up the canyon.

From the blue tees, I actually hit three poor shots all day long- tee shots on 5, 17, and 18, reached 10 greens in regulation, and had 35 putts to shoot 82.  I didn't have a problem with the course setup and enjoyed my round despite some frustration with the short game.  I like the aprons as they're maintained- a major way that the course differentiates itself- and hope that the superintendent continues to keep them fairly dry.
 


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2009, 01:13:08 PM »
... I then watched in horror as my slightly downhill right to left 5 footer for par just missed the cup then gained speed aided by the 30mph wind and rolled off the green. ...

Stop already with this 30 mph wind stuff. There was no 30 mph wind at Rustic the day we played there. Not even the gusts came anywhere near 30 mph.
Although I am hardly a wind speed expert, my best guess would be in the ball park of sustained 10 mph with possible gusts to 15 mph.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Lou_Duran

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Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2009, 01:37:21 PM »
I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do have some experience with wind and Mr. Yost's characterization is in the ballpark.  Below is a link noting max wind speeds of 24 mph with gusts to 34 in Moorpark.  It may have been even higher in the canyon.  It was much calmer in the evening when we played a few extra holes, but still around 10 mph.

 http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KCMA/2009/4/19/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Moorpark&req_state=CA&req_statename=California

Tom Yost

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Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2009, 05:02:36 PM »
... I then watched in horror as my slightly downhill right to left 5 footer for par just missed the cup then gained speed aided by the 30mph wind and rolled off the green. ...

Stop already with this 30 mph wind stuff. There was no 30 mph wind at Rustic the day we played there. Not even the gusts came anywhere near 30 mph.
Although I am hardly a wind speed expert, my best guess would be in the ball park of sustained 10 mph with possible gusts to 15 mph.


Hmpfff.  My ball just didn't roll off the green, it rolled back to the TEE... damn near...    ;)

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2009, 05:15:23 PM »
I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do have some experience with wind and Mr. Yost's characterization is in the ballpark.  Below is a link noting max wind speeds of 24 mph with gusts to 34 in Moorpark.  It may have been even higher in the canyon.  It was much calmer in the evening when we played a few extra holes, but still around 10 mph.

 http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KCMA/2009/4/19/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Moorpark&req_state=CA&req_statename=California

Like I say, I am not a wind expert, but if that was a 30 mph wind, then I must often play in a virtual hurricane in the Columbia River Gorge.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #120 on: April 28, 2009, 05:38:19 PM »
I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do have some experience with wind and Mr. Yost's characterization is in the ballpark.  Below is a link noting max wind speeds of 24 mph with gusts to 34 in Moorpark.  It may have been even higher in the canyon.  It was much calmer in the evening when we played a few extra holes, but still around 10 mph.

 http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KCMA/2009/4/19/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Moorpark&req_state=CA&req_statename=California

That weather chart has some interesting factoids.  First, the higher winds of 24 with 36 gusts were during the hours we played.  Second, the graphic near the bottom shows how the wind direction changed later in the day.

After the wind had been down canyon (Santa Ana) all day, on the 17th tee it was suddenly in our faces!

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #121 on: April 28, 2009, 05:45:20 PM »
The graph with the wind data is completely off. Moriarty and I played that day from 6:00 am to 9:00 am and the wind was much, much stronger than it was during our second round with the GCA guys.  The graph shows no wind from 6-9am.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tom Huckaby

Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #122 on: April 28, 2009, 05:48:52 PM »
The graph with the wind data is completely off. Moriarty and I played that day from 6:00 am to 9:00 am and the wind was much, much stronger than it was during our second round with the GCA guys.  The graph shows no wind from 6-9am.

I was gonna ask you that.. the graph seems weird to me too, for that reason.

But another question.. reading about Tom Y.'s putt on 5... was my putt from way above the hole (and then stopping it at most two feet past) then one of the great putts in modern golf? Thank GOD I hit it about half as hard as I thought I should....

 ;D
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 05:50:36 PM by Tom Huckaby »

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #123 on: April 28, 2009, 05:55:27 PM »
The graph with the wind data is completely off. Moriarty and I played that day from 6:00 am to 9:00 am and the wind was much, much stronger than it was during our second round with the GCA guys.  The graph shows no wind from 6-9am.

I was gonna ask you that.. the graph seems weird to me too, for that reason.

But another question.. reading about Tom Y.'s putt on 5... was my putt from way above the hole (and then stopping it at most two feet past) then one of the great putts in modern golf? Thank GOD I hit it about half as hard as I thought I should....

 ;D

Only one of?

"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Let's talk Rustic Canyon
« Reply #124 on: April 28, 2009, 05:56:45 PM »
The graph with the wind data is completely off. Moriarty and I played that day from 6:00 am to 9:00 am and the wind was much, much stronger than it was during our second round with the GCA guys.  The graph shows no wind from 6-9am.

May have had something to do with the spinach and artichoke dip David M. had at dinner.
 

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