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Norbert P

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2009, 11:43:55 AM »
That's one fuzzy picture there slaggy my boy...


The fuzzy parts are the best parts.
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Jeff Doerr

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2009, 10:25:40 PM »
Hi Slag!

Let me know if you need anything from me for Saturday.

Really looking forward to it!

Thanks, Jeff
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Norbert P

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2009, 11:58:28 AM »
 Nothing for me Jeff, thanks, but the weather should be warm - between 75 and 80 - so bring your shorts and SPF 2000. 

 BTW, our first tee times are pushed up to 1:00 PM.    And Jeff, check your IM box.

 Anybody still on the fence about coming, let me know. 
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Adam Clayman

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2009, 08:43:35 AM »
Looking forward to the reports from those who are there today.

If we could get the humble Slag to quantify his input into the design, I know of a few who'd be interested?


"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Garland Bayley

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2009, 02:06:35 AM »
Slagbert,

Your friends are waiting with baited breath for your report. Now put down the Arrogant Bastard and start posting.
 ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Michael Dugger

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2009, 08:41:13 PM »
Just got back....too exhausted to write much other than to say it's a great place for all the reasons we purists love gawf.

Weather was perfect, company was exceptional.  I have lots of pictures to share...will do asap...
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Rob Rigg

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2009, 10:35:59 PM »
Impatiently waiting for some news . . .

Talked to someone who played it a couple of weeks ago and they would not shut up about it. Great to hear.

Garland Bayley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2009, 08:53:46 PM »
Wine Valley is announced with a link from golf.com's "front page".

http://www.golf.com/golf/courses_travel/article/0,28136,1895492,00.html
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jeff Doerr

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2009, 11:40:20 PM »
A HUGE Thanks to Slag, Dan Hixson and all!!!

Here's a bunch of pics. We were mid-day, so the shadows were not what they were later or earlier in the day. I'm sure Mr. Dugger will have some great comments.

Hole 1 430 to 335 - Great opener with inviting tee shot and great width. Nice deep green with cool back bunker cut out that I found. Green favors a left side aproach. Greens and whole course played very firm.



Hole 2 390 to 230 - Uphill with cool skyline feel. Big short grass area to right of green.



Hole 3 575 to 430 - Big, wide fairway with centerline bunkers, water left of green with big drop off on the right side. Tyler (Super at WVGC) hit two big shots pin high and executed a tough, but perfect pitch to the firm green.





Hole 4 390 to 260 - Nice short slight uphill 4. Best approach from the right and up near center bunker to well contoured green with big short grass slope on right.





Hole 5 475 to 300 - Big downhill par 4 and the first encounter with the nice looking man-made wash. Nice side board to right side of fairway, but great speedslot on the left. Very big and super mounded green.





Hole 6 210 to 100 - Your first par 3. Water right is really not in play. The slope up front and left will feed balls in, but go just past that and you'll find a sneaky valley that funnels your ball away. The bunker in the back looks close from the tee, but has a huge short grass valley between it and the green.





Hole 7 625 to 440 - Big long par 5 with a cool slag bunker that mirrors the landforms in the background. The green sits in a great punchbowl.







Hole 8 225 to 145 - Great par 3 that Dan Hixson said is one of his favorites. The green is something to behold. My son thought this was similar to 6. It may present that way from the tee a bit, but the greens are very different.





Hole 9 455 to 340 - Big end to the front nine. Big wide fairway, and a lake up near the green which will confuse a poor drive on the layup. Again, a really fun green to close out the front nine.



Back Nine to come....

"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Jeff Doerr

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2009, 12:16:18 AM »
On to the back nine...

Hole 10 610 to 430 - Big start to the back, heading back out to the vastness of the course. Dan indicated they may add a long waste area down the left to push people toward the right. If you keep it down the right you'll be rewarded with the best angle into the green.





Hole 11 180 to 95 - Nice shorter 3 with great slopes and a devilish front bunker on the firm green.



Hole 12 435 to 325 - No pics, but in the background of 14 green pic. Shorter uphill 4 with the wash coming in again. Green is in the toughest shape as far as grow in, but again has the cool shaping that makes you want to come back and play the hole again and again!

Hole 13 505 to 350 - Another big downhill 4 with a great greensite perched on the edge of the hill. Middle image shows what happens when a 50+ windstorm comes through your course. Dan's hitting another GIR - I think he had 15 or 16 - he still has a lot of game...







Hole 14 160 to 85 - The "Short" - with a big green. Very cool hole with a multitude of tough pins available. (See 12 behind the 2nd image)





Hole 15 515 to 380 - A short uphill 5 with a "Slag" wasre area that is coming in on the left. Very nice hole that my son proclaimed his favorite after getting up and down from a haddes lie that Dan coached him through.







Hole 16 195 to 125 - Final 3. Dan felt the shadows on this great green would only show early in the AM. Great middle bowl feel with a great gouge and trench bunker.



Hole 17 420 to 300 - Uphill 4 with "Cleavage" and a tough Slag bunker on the left. By this time the wheels had come off for me, but I did make a heroic up and down for par out of Slag's bunker. Q: Is Cleavage something new in GCA?





Hole 18 565 to 435 - Big downhiller tumbles you home. Nice center pot makes you think on the layup. One last beautiful hole with width, a rolling fairway, artful bunkering, short grass, firm conditions, and a masterful finish at the green.





Dad and Son had a great time! (It helped Son that he beat dad...  :( )



"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Rob Rigg

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2009, 01:11:49 AM »
Jeff,

Thanks for the photos.

So awesome you were able to take your son out for a round on what looks like a wonderful course.

Every dad's dream.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2009, 10:40:43 AM »
Ponds??????????????????????????
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Norbert P

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2009, 11:00:24 PM »
 Jeff, thanks to you and Tim for venturing out to Walla Walla for the new playground.  My favorite picture is the one of you and Tim having a good time.  I believe that was Wine Valley's first 100+ player day and we haven't heard anything but positives.  We appreciate your understanding that conditions are not at their peak yet but Tyler, Kris, Harold, Keith, and the rest of the crew have the peddle to the medal since Paul took all the governors off! (Just joking.) It was a grand day out. Thanks also to Michael Dugger, Garret Jones, Professor Ken Struckenheimersteinbergen, the Byerly Clan, Tall Dave, Mark, John, Paul, George and Ringo, and Prince the ever-fetching border collie.

Wine Valley ! It's closer than Paraparaumu!             .   .   .                     (For most of us.)

In addendum, it's flattering to hear Slag bandied but I was merely filler to those that taught me the few things I did. If I take thanks it's strictly and rightfully on behalf of my teachers  . . . in no particular order . . . with apologies to those momentarily forgotten through a foggy mind . . . 
Kelly and Klara Painter, Dan Hixson, Milo, Troy Russell, Jay Kenyon, Joe Towner, Steve Paxton, Kris Borgman, Kye Goalby, Brian Caesar, Dan Proctor, Mark and Eva Christensen and Bud, George Travis, Ramone Mendoza, Lloyd, Hernando, Tyler Daniels, Harold, Paul, Keith, Tony, Walter Beckwith, Mike, Michael, Eric, Ben, Randy, Ron and the whole irrigation team, John Thorsnes, Paul Gatewood, Mark Fiore, Jim Pliska, Tall Dave, Russ and MaryAnn Byerly, Mike Byerly, Scott and Linda Byerly, Tyler's ever-generous extended family, and including Slugger, Louis and Prince. I could write a fine story of each of these folks but perhaps it's more interesting if they do that. And, last but not least,  to that gal in the tight blue jeans who fed her horses on Frog Hollow Road. You made me wanna be a better man. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 10:22:42 AM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Jonathan Cummings

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2009, 06:12:36 PM »
I'm playing Wine Valley in 2 weeks.  How good is it?  Who can recommend an upscale hotel B&B in Walla Walla?  Thanks  J

David Botimer

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2009, 09:30:41 PM »
I'm playing Wine Valley in 2 weeks.  How good is it?  Who can recommend an upscale hotel B&B in Walla Walla?  Thanks  J

Jonathan, there are several options for housing in Walla Walla, depending on your priorities.  Wine Valley is west of town about 9 miles and most accomodations are in town or south or east of town.  Here's a few:

1. Marcus Whitman Hotel - A beautifully restored hotel (originally built late 1920's, 13 stories) in downtown WW very close to many of the wineries, restaurants and stores that make downtown WW a special place.  This would be the best location for nighttime entertainment if that's important.  Website is www.marcuswhitmanhotel.com.

2. Inn and Blackberry Creek. B & B 2 miles from downtown and 11 miles from Wine Valley.  Set in residential area and has gotten good reviews online from many who've stayed.  Website is www.innatblackberrycreek.com.

3. Inn at Abeja.  B & B on Abeja Winery property.  Located 14 miles from Wine Valley and 3 miles east of downtown.  Least convenient of the 3 but if you are into the winery scene this is a good one, and close to several other great wineries.  Website is www.abeja.net/inn.

There are many other options in town, including several more economical options close to downtown such as La Quinta Inn, Holiday Inn Express and Hampton Inn.  If I was choosing, as much as the B & B's are great, I'd stay at the Marcus Whitman and enjoy the wineries and restaurant scene in downtown.

Dave

Adam Clayman

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2009, 09:37:47 PM »
JC. Any chance you're flying yourself? If so, can you drop into Ogallala on your way to Wall walla and pick me up? 

Jeff, Cleavage is not new. Old Pete Dye's were always gun sights, to me. It wasn't until the new breed of perverts starting showing too much of their IBG's could such a question be posed.

Oh yeah,

great looking freedom, the width, the wash edges and the frilly bunkers mimic nature nicely.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 09:54:18 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jonathan Cummings

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2009, 10:10:18 PM »
Adam - even in one of our high performance retractables it would take me an eon to get there from Maryland.  It's easier and vastly cheaper to wedge myself into a crammed 757.  I have a slot for you if you want to join us...  Give me a call.  J

Michael Dugger

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2009, 12:46:32 AM »






































« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 02:35:01 AM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

RJ_Daley

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2009, 01:19:45 AM »
Nice going Mike D., let the pictures do the talking.  And plenty they had to say!  I'm picking up a vibe that puts me in mind of both Wild Horse and Rustic Canyon.  It looks like some very golfy rolling interesting ground. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Michael Dugger

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2009, 01:26:43 AM »
Nice going Mike D., let the pictures do the talking.  And plenty they had to say!  I'm picking up a vibe that puts me in mind of both Wild Horse and Rustic Canyon.  It looks like some very golfy rolling interesting ground. 

Oh I have lots to say, RJ, would you really expect otherwise?  I am simply putting the finishing touches on crafting such....

As an aside, I don't like the new gca.com format.  I think you need to view larger resolution to get the full effect of good images.  The new layout fixes the size, which stinks.....
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 01:46:03 AM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Rob Rigg

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2009, 02:01:31 AM »
WV has a wonderful rugged rawness around the bunkers and waste areas that has a similar vibe to Chambers Bay. Looking fwd to getting out there this summer (hopefully) - great pictures Mr Dugger.

Michael Dugger

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2009, 02:56:41 AM »
The first thing I want to say about Wine Valley is even in a bunk economy I predict it will be a success.  They have a fun golf course out there in Walla Walla.  The sophomore effort of designer Dan Hixson, the primary virtue of the course rests in him sticking to the basic tenets of links golf; wind, width and undulating firm turf.

Wine Valley occupies farmland; wheat and alfalfa.  Someday there will be houses on the golf course, but for now it’s wide open.  The rolling hills made finding golf holes simple; even Dan said it would be hard to mess this up.  I’d guestimate the overall elevation change on the course, from highest to lowest point, to be somewhere around 100 ft. but I could be off.  It’s a large site on a grand scale, which will mess with your sense of distance.

The course is two loops of nine, the first five holes sort of paralleling one another moving south away from the clubhouse, and then you turn north at the one shot 6th and play back towards the clubhouse.  There is water in play on #3, #6 and #9.  Only at #3 is it really in play.

I preferred the back nine more, which consists of three par 4, three par 5 and three par 3 holes.  Additionally, the routing meanders out to the highest point on the property so there are wonderful vistas to be had coming home.  There is plenty of variety; reachable par 5s, both long and short par 3s.  I suppose the 4th is the closest thing to drivable par 4, but only to the likes of JB Holmes, Tiger Woods and perhaps Tyler, the super ;-)

I lost one ball, and I’m not hitting it very well right now.  The course is large, definitely on a scale larger than that of Bandon Crossings.  Many fairways are 75-100 yards wide and are a blend of fescue.  The greens are bent, however.  The long hay has yet to fully develop but will probably be amazing when it does.

This is something we talked about at one point.  I think the aesthetics of the course will improve once you are getting more color contrast between the turf and native.  They have plenty of work to do in the coming years, according to Dan there is some native stuff trying to re-establish a foothold; weeds, wheat, etc…..  Like any course, elements of the maintenance meld are a constant work in progress, but in the grand scheme of things, Tyler, the super, has a firm hold.  Dan talked quite a bit about how he thinks it is important to be able to find balls hit into the boon docks, and has advised not watering the deep hay in attempt to keep it sparse.

From a strict architectural and playability standpoint, the course is mature beyond its years.  It has grown in pretty quickly, and while some evidence of drainage/irrigation work is evident, the turf played much quicker than the turf we played on at Chambers Bay during our GCA gathering there a couple years back. 

The bunkers are an interesting lot.  Dan provided the construction folks with a concept "Vertical Cleavage."  All of the bunkers were crafted to mimic local landforms, Vertical Cleavage being a legitimate geologic landform.  As Jeff Doerr pointed out, additionally, Slag attempted to emulate distant mountain peaks in some of his bunkers.  Integrating local flavor into the golf course makes the difference between a good course and a charming course.

See Vertical cleavage below...


I’m looking forward to seeing the bunkers mature, and cannot help but speculate on how they will look five years from now.  My personal opinion is they would look better with hairy grass noses/faces.  The Vertical Cleavage just looks dirty to me, no pun intended.  And I think they are always going to have a problem with something trying to grow on those faces, wanted or not.  Regardless, they are mean and intimidating, and at the end of the day bunkers should scream out “stay away.” These hazards serve this purpose in spades. 

The 17th hole, one of my favorites, has a cool dirt wall framing the left side of the fairway, but is the only hole with a feature of this sort.  Apparently 17 was the last hole constructed and I bet if Dan knew how well that feature would come out he would have incorporated it into the course elsewhere too.  To Hixson’s credit, there was a lot of effort put into randomizing/naturalizing the man-made features.  Again, credit here must go to the skills of Proctor, Goalby. Painter et al as well

A lot of effort was spent creating optical illusions and messing with the golfer’s depth perception.  The greens complexes at Wine Valley are well done.  Numerous short chipping areas, false fronts and dead elephants, etc.  You can approach the greens from different angles using the ground game, which I just love.  Dan mentioned the pro shop staff was telling him recently that the course is developing a strong female following because of the playability.  The course oozes creativity and playability.

Highlights for me included the 4th hole, a short par four with a large fronting wasteland to a shallow green.  #7 has a super cool green within a natural bowl.  To my mind this is a true punchbowl green, and it is so fun to hit approach shots long and have them back up towards the flagstick.

The 14th is Wine Valley’s “short” hole, and will lead to a lot of ugly scores. I hit my tee shot a little right into a greenside bunker and could muster no better than a double bogey I.E. sand shot and three putt.  This is the biggest green on the course and devilishly crafted by Kye Goalby.  75 yard putts await golfers who cannot hit accurate short irons.

#15 asks for a tee shot across a wasteland cross hazard.  Over time this hazard will only grow more and more hateful, as it should.  Following a successful drive, your approach shot is uphill and into the smallest green on the course.  While one of the more reachable three shots holes, I am inclined to think the prudent play is to lay up way out to the right.  Working uphill to one of the highest points on the property, this hole possesses wild undulations and deep cavernous bunkers.  Slag told me Dan Proctor spent quite a bit of time working over the back of this greens complex and it’s a beaut.

The closing stretch at Wine Valley is fabulous.  Slag crafted most of the bunkers on 17 and damn if they aren’t good stuff!  He pointed out to me that if the golfer’s tee shot is hit out to the right, behind the long cross bunker, one is left with a blind approach.  It’s hard to tell from the pictures but there are a couple of huge mounds out there that truly leave you feeling helpless.  One of the fellas in my group did such, and then didn’t get his ball up high enough and couldn’t clear the fairway bunker with his 2nd.  He fell right into the trap.  Even the green on this hole is a diabolical one.  When the pin is in the front putts from the back are better served played to the elbows of the green than on a direct line.  Hitting balls which turn 90 degrees like this is fun stuff…

#18 is a classic downhill closer.  The small bunker up near the green was added by Dan Proctor, and once again, kudos to Hixson for being receptive to his construction crew offering input, especially sage builders like Proctor, Caesar and Goalby.  #18 is a fitting closer to a fabulous round of golf.

In conclusion, Wine Valley GC is a major notch in Dan Hixson’s bedpost, and even though I really like the guy, I would not say that if I did not mean it.  Should you travel across the country to play it?  I’m not so sure about that, but should you travel from say, Seattle?  I think absolutely.  It should only get better and better as the course matures and the true strategy of the individual golf holes reveal themselves. 

It’s what Links magazine would call a Modern Classic.  I think if you are anywhere in the region you HAVE to go out and play it.  At the end of the day I think it equates to a Doak 6, with the potential to be a 7 or even 8 provided additional maturity and tweaks on the part of Hixson and ownership.  The course should be on the radar of any true student of golf course architecture. 

Thanks to everyone who showed me a great time in Walla Walla, I look forward to returning to your fabulous course.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 03:21:13 AM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Jonathan Cummings

  • Total Karma: -4
Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2009, 06:58:41 AM »
Thanks David - very helpful.  JC

I'm playing Wine Valley in 2 weeks.  How good is it?  Who can recommend an upscale hotel B&B in Walla Walla?  Thanks  J

Jonathan, there are several options for housing in Walla Walla, depending on your priorities.  Wine Valley is west of town about 9 miles and most accomodations are in town or south or east of town.  Here's a few:

1. Marcus Whitman Hotel - A beautifully restored hotel (originally built late 1920's, 13 stories) in downtown WW very close to many of the wineries, restaurants and stores that make downtown WW a special place.  This would be the best location for nighttime entertainment if that's important.  Website is www.marcuswhitmanhotel.com.

2. Inn and Blackberry Creek. B & B 2 miles from downtown and 11 miles from Wine Valley.  Set in residential area and has gotten good reviews online from many who've stayed.  Website is www.innatblackberrycreek.com.

3. Inn at Abeja.  B & B on Abeja Winery property.  Located 14 miles from Wine Valley and 3 miles east of downtown.  Least convenient of the 3 but if you are into the winery scene this is a good one, and close to several other great wineries.  Website is www.abeja.net/inn.

There are many other options in town, including several more economical options close to downtown such as La Quinta Inn, Holiday Inn Express and Hampton Inn.  If I was choosing, as much as the B & B's are great, I'd stay at the Marcus Whitman and enjoy the wineries and restaurant scene in downtown.

Dave

RJ_Daley

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2009, 04:03:23 PM »
You've out done yourself Mike, with a fine write-up.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Wine Valley Golf Invitation MAY 16th
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2009, 11:41:17 AM »
Four hour drive from Portland (at sane speeds)?