[Ran Morrissett]

Seeing Cassique maintain a spot in Golf Digest's latest 'we may look stupid but we'll keep publishing it anyway'  ranking of top US courses was one of the few bright spots in an otherwise worthless exercise of numbers and columns. Some coastal Carolina courses that feature ten foot plus mounds look woefully out of place in the Low Country but for some reason, Cassique pulls it off. After playing it for the first time last November, I was impressed to where I had
Joel Stewart ask Sandy Tatum to coordinate a Feature Interview with Cassique's architect, Tom Watson.

In part based on the non-commercial nature of GolfClubAtlas, Tom agreed to do this Feature Interview and he dug into the questions in his usual forthright mid-western manner. Not unlike Greg Norman, you ask him a question and you'll get a direct answer like his own disdain for ratings as expressed in his answer to which he prefers between Muirfield and North Berwick. Also, he is quick to criticize the work done to the seventh, seventeenth and eighteenth holes at Augusta National - and this from a man who has two Green Jackets. Most past champions are more guarded in their comments but Tom's frankness is welcome. (Of course, Larry Dorman's article this morning in the NY Times shockingly entitled 'At Augusta, the  Thrill is back in a Big Way' indicates that perhaps I am watching the wrong Masters ).

As a credit to the man, Tom happily dishes out credit where credit is due, like to Charlie Arrington for the creation of the Spectacles par five sixth hole at Cassique. In several ways, this hole highlights the virtues of Cassique's design - central hazards dominate, the fairways offer up uneven lies, and blindness can be an issue for the golfer who gets out of place. Yet, the hole can still be had in a good score, striking that perfect balance between features that provide challenge and pleasurable excitement. As a side note, though I appreciate his history there, I was surprised that Tom picked Birkdale as one of his three favorite links courses - the rolling fairways and central features (be it bunkers or large landforms) created  at Cassique offer more interesting conundrums than I seem to recall through the valleys at Birkdale.

Soon to be crowned Champion Golfer of the Year, seeing Watson burst through the crowd on the seventy-second hole at five Opens is what I most remember (more so than the chip-in at Pebble or his thirty-nine PGA Tour wins). The smile that was itched on his face at such moments was one of the reasons that I grew up thinking that links golf was the best as its brand of golf was somehow more invigorating than punishing. And, mercifully, that describes his design team's work at Cassique too, making it a very refreshing change from the standard offered by most designs tied to a professional golfer.

Apart from his famous association at Ballybunion and Cassique, here are his other design efforts:

• The Links at Spanish Bay, Pebble Beach, California (with Tatum and Jones)
• National Golf Club of Kansas City, Parkville, Missouri 
• Independence Course at Reunion Resort & Club, Orlando, Florida
• The Manor Golf Club, Alpharetta, GA
• The Conservatory at Hammock Beach, Palm Coast, FL
• Shadow Glen the Golf Club, Olathe, Kansas (with Morrish & Weiskopf)
• Loch Lloyd Country Club, Village of Lock Lloyd, Missouri (Opening 2010)

Asia:
• Tom Watson Golf Course, Phoenix CC,  Miyazaki, Japan
• J.T. Course – Aso, Japan
• Yashima Country Club – Awano, Japan
• Forum Country Club – Chichiba, Japan

Who has played what and what did you think?

Cheers,

[PCCraig]

Ran-

I have played Cassique about 6 times over a few visits to Kiawah Island. At first I went into the round thinking it was going to be a typical mound infested resort course. However I enjoyed myself so much and had a ton of fun playing the course. The holes on the back nine through the low country are probably the best, but the feature I tell others about so often are holes #4-6. I loved the flexibility of being able to play to different fairways depending on the day from the 4th tee shot, and in turn play to different greens and different par-3 5th holes. Why more courses don't try this I don't know.

I hope you took pictures when you visited in November and are planning on writing a course profile. I would be interested to hear your hole-by-hole commentary of the course.

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm a little surprised that there has only been 1 comment on this interview?

If anyone has a question for Tom, especially since he just competed at Augusta, let me know and I'll ask him.

[Scott Warren]

Wasn't there a previous "unofficial" thread about the interview? I recall a fair few people had comments in there.

[PCCraig]

I suppose I'm a little interested in the construction of Cassique. It seems the resident architect at Kiawah had a heavy hand in the design, yet Tom Watson gets most of the credit?

Would those who know him consider Watson an open minded design boss with some veto power?

[BCrosby]

I agree with Watson's take on the changes to ANGC. As Watson notes, the changes have diminished the architecture of the course and certainly would not have pleased MacK.

I am the only one who thought that Watson was a reluctant interviewee? Does Ran have compromising pictures? 

Bob

[George Pazin]

THE CHALLENGE OF AUGUSTA NATIONAL IS THE SET OF GREENS SO CAREFULLY AND MASTERFULLY CREATED BY MR. JONES AND DR. MACKENZIE.  A MUCH MORE DIFFICULT APPROACH TO THE GREENS FROM THE WRONG DIRECTION WAS THE PENALTY OF AN ERRANT DRIVE.

I love this comment. It speaks directly to those who want trees to punish errant drives.

[David Stamm]

I like to know some of his favorite courses here in the States and if he has some architects that he particulary enjoys.

[Joel_Stewart]

I am the only one who got that Watson was a reluctant interviewee?

No he wasn't reluctant but he had never heard of GCA and so we had to provide some information.  After he read Sandy Tatums interview and we submitted some sample questions he "enjoyed the process" as he said.

From my perspective, at age 60 he is still very active and travels an enormous amount.   I have no idea what his personal business interests are but he is difficult to catch (even on his cell phone) and he answers his emails very early in the morning.  

Lastly, he couldn't have been nicer especially on the phone.  

[Jason Topp]

I liked this comment even though I am not sure I agree:

"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED"

[Kyle Henderson]

I liked this comment even though I am not sure I agree:

"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED"

Ratings should be enjoyed for their utility, folly, and the discourses they engender. That is, unless someone produces a list that is completely congruent with my personal tastes, in which case everyone had better pipe down.

Ran,
Thank you continuing the steady stream of internet gold that is this website's expanding content.

[mike_beene]

It seems like Watson putted from off the green as much as any player,and was also a great pitcher of the ball.I would guess he sees the short game and recovery as a skill as opposed to a belief that a missed green should exact some penalty.

[Matt Bosela]

I've only had the opportunity to play one of Watson's courses so far, and that was the Conservatory at Hammock Beach.

He moved a heck of a lot of earth at that facility and it has a heavily manufactured 'look' to it but despite all that, we really enjoyed playing the course.  It's not quite as good as Nicklaus' Ocean Course, which had a better piece of land right on the Atlantic, but the Conservatory is still a fun course to play, with a lot of cool options around the greens.

I have a ton of pictures from playing there last year (we played four rounds at the Conservatory and three rounds at the Ocean Course) and perhaps I'll do a course writeup and photo tour soon.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Watson's favorite hole at Spanish Bay is the 17th:

From the tee:


Approach:


Green:

[George Pazin]

Thanks for the photos, Scott, they really add to Tom's words. That is a really terrific greensite, imho.

[Joel_Stewart]

I like to know some of his favorite courses here in the States and if he has some architects that he particulary enjoys.

I don't think he follows any architects, I asked him that on an email and he didn't respond.   We didn't ask about his favorite non tour golf courses although I'm told he really enjoys Cypress Point.   

I don't think he plays very much recreational golf.

[Norbert P]

   Another fine addition to an already diverse collection of interviews.

  Curious as to what new designs he might be working on.

[Ash Towe]

I hope one day he writes his autobiography or somebody writes his biography.  I think it would be a fascinating read.  There are so many aspects of his golfing career worth looking at, his other golfing interests and opinions never mind any personal aspects.

[Joel_Stewart]

    Curious as to what new designs he might be working on.

The only course he has under construction is Loch Lloyd in Missouri.   

Ash:

I'll ask him about the autobiography, it's a good idea.  He does have a web site under construction which I'll share when it goes live.

[Ash Towe]

Joel,
Thanks for that.  I think he has a huge amount of support.  He was the best in the world for a long time.  I for one,  really admired his support of tournaments outside of the US.  Also the way he conducted himself was a model for others.

[Joel_Stewart]

Also the way he conducted himself was a model for others.

The way he is conducting himself at the Open is beyond belief.

If he wins I'll ask him to do a follow up interview.  Please feel free to suggest any questions.

[Tim Bert]

I like to know some of his favorite courses here in the States and if he has some architects that he particulary enjoys.

I don't think he follows any architects, I asked him that on an email and he didn't respond.   We didn't ask about his favorite non tour golf courses although I'm told he really enjoys Cypress Point.   

I don't think he plays very much recreational golf.

I believe I heard he was either a national member, or at least enjoys a game, at Belvedere.  I can't remember which.  We were told that he listed #6 there amongst his favorite short par 4s in the world.

[Tony_Chapman]

I think appropriate to share the forward to Final Rounds by James Dodson. Awesome stuff!

It is nothing new or original to say that golf is played one stroke at a time. But it took me many years to realize it.
--Bobby Jones

Prologue: A Father's Voice

Toward the end of the afternoon, Tom Watson sits in his office talking to a golf writer. The golf season has just ended. The golf writer is me. We have been talking for almost two hours. There is a thin skin of ice on the pond in the park across the street. Traffic is a muted sigh in the winter shadows of Kansas City. Christmas presents for his children are stacked neatly in a shopping bag at his feet. Watson's wariness of the press is famous, but he has been relaxed and generous, talking about the Ryder Cup team he will soon lead to Britain, about his life, career, children, heroes, even making self-deprecating jokes about his well-publicized putting woes. This pleases me, confirms my best hopes. Watson is forty-three, five years my senior, the best golfer of my generation, now a lion in winter. In my former life as a political journalist, it would have been deemed grossly unprofessional to admit I am my subject's fan. But golf, unlike politics, as Alister Mackenzie is supposed to have once said, is at least an honest game. I am Watson's fan because he played with such honesty and heart during his golden days, and because of how he conducts himself now that the glory has faded and his game seems almost mortal.

Sometimes during these conversations, I find myself unexpectedly wondering with pleasure how I got here. For me, a kid who tagged after his golf heroes and was lucky enough to grow up and be able to sit and talk with them, it's a dream job and a question rooted perhaps as much in philosophy as journalism. All philosophy begins in wonder, and the wonder of what Watson suddenly, intimately reveals of himself in our conversation is both thought-provoking and surprising. I ask if he can identify the worst moment of his career, and he responds by telling me about once rushing out of the locker room at the World Series of Golf, brushing off a boy seeking his autograph. The boy's father followed him and tapped him on the back.

"He looked me straight in the eye and said, 'I just want to tell you, Mr. Watson, what an asshole I think you are. My son was really a fan of yours.'" Watson shakes his head. "I couldn't believe it--how badly I felt, I mean." He falls silent, pursing his lower lip. Somewhere outside the building I can hear Christmas music playing, a slurry rendition of "Jingle Bells" fading away. There are writers around who would love to challenge Tom Watson's sincerity on this, question how such a trivial moment could possibly compare, say, to his heartbreaking loss to Seve Ballesteros at the '84 British Open at St. Andrews. A wayward two-iron shot at the infamous Road Hole cost him a record-tying sixth Open title and made the fiery Spaniard the new darling of the British masses. For a second or two, Watson stares at the running tape recorder, then shakes his head again. "I still feel bad about it," he says simply.

The thing is, I believe him. Watson could not believe what he says he believes--namely, that golf represents the most honorable of games--and feel otherwise. So I flip the coin--best to part on a cheerful note--and ask him for the best moment of his golf life, certain he will either say his famous shot-making duel against Nicklaus at Turnberry in '77 or his "miracle" chip-in at Pebble Beach in '82 to win the U.S. Open. "It's funny," he says, pausing again, "the greatest thrill I had may have been the day my father invited me to join him and a couple of his regular golf buddies at his club. I was so excited, really aching to show him what I could do. I guess I was maybe eleven or twelve." Watson, the former Stanford psychology student, studies me with those eyes that always look as if he's been out walking in a linksland wind. "Even now I think about that. It was a very powerful moment. My father means so much to me. I can always hear his voice in my head, telling me to keep my head still or make a good swing.  I don't know if I ever felt that way again, you know?" He smiles somewhat wistfully, revealing the boyish gaps in his teeth. Turning off the tape recorder, I admit that I know what he means because I hear my father's voice, too.

Almost every day of my life.

[ed_getka]

It would be great to have a follow-up interview with TW after the Open. I would be interested to hear if there are any aspects of Turnberry that he finds especially appealing from an architecture standpoint. Having won 2 tournaments there I would think the course suits his eye or fits his game well. I know many years ago he golfed at Dornoch when he was in Scotland to prep for the Open. I would be interested to hear Tom's thoughts on Dornoch.

[Matthew Runde]

I, too, would live to read a follow-up interview.  I'd like to ask him:

Where do you see humor in the designs of links courses such as Turnberry?

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