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John_Cullum

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2009, 10:27:25 AM »
I think I detect a "second cut" in that view of the 10th (now 1st) fairway
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Kalen Braley

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2009, 10:33:52 AM »
I'm guessing those pics that reference the "3rd green" is the 12th green in the current routing. I
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Bill_McBride

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2009, 10:36:43 AM »
Quote from: Michael_Hendren on April 09, 2009, 10:10:25 AM
These photographs show how quickly the course was altered - notably the now 9th green has been rounded off from its original tooth shape.

Great stuff.  Also proof that tree planting in is the course's DNA.

Bogey

C'mon Bogey, the place was a nursery before it was a golf course!
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BCrosby

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2009, 10:45:09 AM »
Bogey - Tree planting was in ANGC's DNA? Really?

From 1934 until 2003, what new trees were planted at ANGC?

Bob
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Mike Hendren

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2009, 10:47:05 AM »
Bob,

I'll be there tomorrow and will try to gain access early enough to paint a yellow "X" on the planted trees. 

Bogey
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David Stamm

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2009, 10:47:12 AM »
Quote from: BCrosby on April 09, 2009, 09:22:26 AM

Also, thanks to Michael W. for the comparisons of the 9th. It gives a flavor for how Maxwell toned down MacKenzie's features. That happened to a number of holes circa 1938/9. Maxwell domesticated MacKenzie's greens to the detriment of the golf course. A real architectural loss, imho.

Bob

 

Bob, I'm glad you brought this up. I hope that this won't be offensive to Chris Clouser, but I have often thought about what Maxwell had done to the course. Maxwell is one of the lauded golden age architects, and yet, the changes he made to the course were, IMHO, were for the worse in some respects. Here was a man who was known for his "Maxwell Rolls", and he dumbed down the greens. I can only assume it was due to the club's desires, because I can't imagine that he would take such great features away, the type of features he himself would've probably used.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2009, 10:49:21 AM »
Quote from: David Stamm on April 09, 2009, 10:47:12 AM
Quote from: BCrosby on April 09, 2009, 09:22:26 AM

Also, thanks to Michael W. for the comparisons of the 9th. It gives a flavor for how Maxwell toned down MacKenzie's features. That happened to a number of holes circa 1938/9. Maxwell domesticated MacKenzie's greens to the detriment of the golf course. A real architectural loss, imho.

Bob

 

Bob, I'm glad you brought this up. I hope that this won't be offensive to Chris Clouser, but I have often thought about what Maxwell had done to the course. Maxwell is one of the lauded golden age architects, and yet, the changes he made to the course were, IMHO, were for the worse in some respects. Here was a man who was known for his "Maxwell Rolls", and he dumbed down the greens. I can only assume it was due to the club's desires, because I can't imagine that he would take such great features away, the type of features he himself would've probably used.

David - I couldn't agree more. The ironies run deep.

Bob
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Kirk Gill

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2009, 10:51:20 AM »
Quote from: BCrosby on April 09, 2009, 09:52:22 AM
A closer look at the old 10th green pic suggests to me that it was up at an elevation that matached the top of the big bunker. It does NOT appear to be in a bowl.

Which further suggests that the hole was not changed because of drainage issues.

I can't say I've researched the specific reasons why the 10th was changed, but from this picture it looks like the hillside goes up to the right of the green (left of the picture), behind the green, and the contours opposite would also tend to not allow water to drain. Who knows how much water would come off of that hillside down on to that green, or from the fairway? What other reasons have been given for the relocation of that green?

I'll admit, it sure looks great......

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Will Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2009, 10:59:21 AM »
The shape of the ninth green in '34 seems much more similar to Cypress and Pasatiempo. It really is amazing how quickly they got away from Mackenzie at Augusta. Love the look of the creek down (now) eleven and in front of twelve.
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Stephen Britton

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2009, 08:00:54 AM »
Amazing how good the turf quality on tees, f/ways and greens look back then. In the photo of the old #1 now #10 there is even a collar mown.

I'm assuming the tees & f/ways were Bermuda then.

Does anyone know if the greens were Bermuda then?

Looking at the photos of Bobby Jones on the driving range was the original driving range in the same location as today?
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"The chief object of every golf architect or greenkeeper worth his salt is to imitate the beauties of nature so closely as to make his work indistinguishable from nature itself" Alister MacKenzie...

Michael Whitaker

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2009, 09:28:41 AM »
The par-3 course was switched from Bermuda to bent in 1978 as a test. When the change proved successful, the greens on the main course were switched to bent in 1980.
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Anthony Gray

Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2009, 09:32:48 AM »
Quote from: Kirk Gill on April 09, 2009, 10:51:20 AM
Quote from: BCrosby on April 09, 2009, 09:52:22 AM
A closer look at the old 10th green pic suggests to me that it was up at an elevation that matached the top of the big bunker. It does NOT appear to be in a bowl.

Which further suggests that the hole was not changed because of drainage issues.

I can't say I've researched the specific reasons why the 10th was changed, but from this picture it looks like the hillside goes up to the right of the green (left of the picture), behind the green, and the contours opposite would also tend to not allow water to drain. Who knows how much water would come off of that hillside down on to that green, or from the fairway? What other reasons have been given for the relocation of that green?

I'll admit, it sure looks great......



  Does anyone have a current photo from the same angle?  Thanks.

  Anthony

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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2009, 09:36:57 AM »
Anthony,

This thread was around a couple of months ago.  Probably ur best for 10 green analysis.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=38963.0
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Anthony Gray

Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2009, 09:40:52 AM »


  Kalen,

 Thanks. So is the consenses that they changed it because of drainage issues?

  Anthony

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Jim Sweeney

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Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2009, 08:47:44 PM »
The pictures of the "9th" green in '34 and '39 are so different because they are different greens.

Remember, the course in '34 played opposite what it has since.

So, the picture of the 9th green in '34 was actually the 18th green in '39, and visa-versa, of course.

Notice in the '34 picture the bunker corner peaking out of the front left of the green. That is the bunker left of the current 18th green. That photo must have been taken from 30 yards right of the current 18th green and the current 9th green is behind and a little left of the gallery, slightly down the hill, hidden.

In the '39 picture, look at the bunkers left of the green and compare them to the bunkers in the modern picture of the 9th green. They are positioned almost identically.
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tlavin

Re: 1930's Masters Photos.
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2009, 06:24:31 PM »
These photos are great, for a number of reasons, but I absolutely love them because they pre-date the horticultural bastardization of Augusta National.  It's one thing to have to listen to the chatter on television about the frickin' loblolly pines, it's quite another to have to listen to the incessant blather about the azaleas.  It's a golf course, not a conservatory!
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