[Mike_Cirba]

Kirk,

Very good analysis on your part to see what subjects come just "before" Findlay uses the word "others"...

Also, I think the sentences right "after" that one might give a pretty clear indication of what Findlay was getting at, as well.   You'll notice he does not break for a new paragraph, but continues as if one continuous thought.

After all, didn't Macdonald lay out for Wilson which holes and which courses to see abroad; his itinerary, if you will?

After expressing some concern or doubt to Wilson about the applicability or desirability of One Particular Hole...the Alps hole at Prestwick, which Wilson then confirms the difficulty of "making" at Merion after he's seen the original in person, Findlay continues;

"But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great.  Wilson became quite fond of Prestwick, Troon, Formby, Hoylake, Sandwich, Deal and Princes, but was sadly disappointed in St. Andrew, which, in reality, is a myth..."

[Joe Bausch]

Joe...perhaps ypu can post that one as well?

[Mike_Cirba]

Sorry Joe...forgot I already had a copy of that one from another source.   

[TEPaul]

Kirk:

I like your analysis in Reply #23. Having looked at that article for the last few days it seems what Findlay meant or is referring to by “But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great” certainly isn’t clear. Frankly, having read a few other Findlay articles from that newspaper he isn’t much of a writer, at least vis-à-vis clarity.

My take, at the moment, is Findlay is just referring to the only other so-called copy or template holes that had been laid out in America by Macdonald at that time (June 1912). And at that particular time the only template holes done by Macdonald would be those of NGLA. Piping Rock, Macdonald’s second course, that followed NGLA, contained some of those so-called template or copy holes that were given the same names as their counterparts abroad was still in the building stage in 1912 (it opened in 1913 a year after that Findlay article). It seems the first review of Piping was done in 1913 by Devereaux Emmet.

I grew up at Piping Rock and if it has an “Alps” hole it would probably be the 12th or perhaps the 15th which simply play the second or approach shot blind over a natural ridgelines. So if Findlay was referring to other “Alps” copies Macdonald had done at that point, NGLA’s could be the only one at that time (June 22, 1912).

Findlay wrote in that June 22, 1912 article:

“He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot.  But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great.”

I feel what Findlay was probably referring to when he mentioned “others” was what he had just said that immediately preceded it----eg ‘that famous old spot.’  I feel Findlay was referring to those famous holes abroad (he apparently called them “famous old spots” (like Prestwick’s #17 (Alps), Eden, Road, Bottle, redan etc, that Macdonald had just gotten recent attention for the reuse of over here at NGLA only, at that time.

Furthermore, if Findlay was referring to “other” so-called template holes at Merion, at that point (June 1912), I can’t even imagine what they would be other than the 3rd which was sometimes referred to as a redan and the 15th green which was initially referred to as an “Eden” type green which, by the way, was just about universally condemned as a practically unplayable green because it was far too canting and was rather quickly changed. If Findlay was referring to that one as one of the “others” by Macdonald that were really great, he was certainly about the only one who ever said that about that particular supposed GB copy.

Findlay’s remarks that are being analyzed here certainly are not clear at all. But if that particular article was or is all the evidence available about who designed and built Merion what Findlay meant in that article may be worthwhile speculating on.

However, that Findlay article is by no means the only evidence of who designed and built Merion East; far, far from It, in fact. The club’s own board and committee meeting records that described in April 1911 both who was involved and the process involved that lead to the plan or course they approved for creation and construction are quite comprehensive and very clear about who designed and build Merion East.

Consequently, I just don’t see the need for any of us to overly speculate on what Findlay meant in that single very unclear reference in that particular article; not to mention that elsewhere Findlay himself stated that Wilson and his committee designed the course just as a number of other newspapers and reporters had as well around that time.

Another important thing to consider is if Macdonald did in fact design "other" holes at Merion East he would've had to do it in a single day because that was the extent of the time he spent on that site during the design and approval phase. I very much doubt he could've done that kind of thing in that short a time but I do understand that others will overlook that or rationalize it away somehow. 

[mike_malone]

 I certainly agree that , at the least, it is not clear. That is why I mentioned another possible interpretation. If we assume he was a decent thinker, if not a good writer, then "others" refers to something different from the Alps hole because he starts with "but".  I think it is logical that it is the other "good holes" that are different in some way . My guess is that they are different as to their application to the Merion site.

       There is much debate about what part CBM played in Merion, but their is no debate that he was an advocate for the use of his templates. So, the simple explanation would be something to do with the templates and how Wilson's visit educated him about their applicability to the Merion site.

[Mike_Cirba]

Duh...sometimes I'm admittedly slow, but tonight this whole thing came crystal clear to me in a flashback to sixth grade.   

Alex Findlay is one of my heroes, as I have always admired his passion for the game and the elegant simplicity of his designs, but Tom Paul is correct;  he isn't much of a writer.

Despite his literary limitations, Findlay has nevertheless inadvertedly managed to provide considerable first-hand proof almost 100 years after the fact that Hugh Wilson designed Merion and C.B. Macdonald didn't.

How's that, you say?   Didn't we already confirm that the language in the article is vague at best, indeterminate, confusing, and misleading at worst?

Well...no, I don't believe we have.

For while Findlay's writing is often rambling and certainly not logically organized, his meaning is nevertheless quite clear once we apply Miss Rawlings' Sixth Grade grammar rules.   

You see, it was driving home from work tonight that I remembered Miss Rawling's, and how she'd instruct us to always find the actual main subject of any paragraph, no matter how carefully the author has managed to hide it. 

Let's start with the first problem with Findlay's writing, paragraph structure.   His second paragraph starts with a sentence that was clearly meant to be the concluding thought in his first paragraph, which deals almost entirely with the new, immature Merion golf course.   Findlay tells us quite clearly that the course is not ready for in-depth analysis or review.    So, with that in mind, let's correct the first paragraph by adding the appropriate last sentence;


"The writer spent a pleasant hour last Wednesday afternoon with Hugh I. Wilson, wandering over the new Merion golf course, which he has spent so much of his time on.  His main object is to make this the king-pin course of Pennsylvania.  I am not yet prepared to talk about the possibilities of this new place because it is really just growing, and Fred Pickering, the coursemaker, will give it the finishing touches in the late fall.  It will then be time to reveal to the world its features, etc."


It's very clear that Findlay isn't ready to make any kind of on-the-record assessment of the Merion course or its holes at this early date.   He says that to the reader right up front, probably as a bit of journalistic defense against the course possibly failing to meet high expectations and a quite lofty well-publicized goal of becoming one of the country's very best courses.   

Findlay then goes on to report on Wilson's recent trip abroad, which he has just spoken to him about in person.   In the next two paragraphs I am going to strip out all of the anecdotal sentences talking about golf playing, and scores, about Wilson's "feelings", and bring it to its bare factual bones, which is a discussion about the great courses and great holes Wilson went to see that Macdonald recommended he visit, and the long-term benefits of his golfing education abroad;


"Wilson has just returned from a trip abroad.  He visited all the leading courses, gathering what data he could anent the making of good golf holes.  I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick.  But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great.  Wilson became quite fond of Prestwick, Troon, Formby, Hoylake, Sandwich, Deal and Princes, but was sadly disappointed in St. Andrews."

"Wilson had no end of a good time, and is sorry at not having gone over years ago.  It certainly broadens one's ideas.  He now possesses golf knowledge that will stand him in good stead for many years to come.  Wilson made a study of the topography of the whole golfing country, such as H.G. Leeds did before he built our greatest American golf course, Myopia near Boston, and C.B. McDonald and his national course, at Shinnecock Hills, L.I.  We need such men like Wilson to help build up the nation's ground for the coming national game of golf."


What Findlay is referring to as "really great" that Macdonald "laid out" for Wilson are the various holes and courses in Macdonald's recommended itinerary of "leading courses" and "good golf holes" that made up Wilson's overseas study.   "Others" are those holes besides the Alps hole at Prestwick that Findlay questions the applicability of for whatever reason (either he doesn't consider it a great hole, or he doesn't believe it will work on the inland Merion course) and which Wilson now agrees will be a tough challenge to emulate.

Ahhhh....I hear you say....you've taken out the most important part!   Those juicy bits where Wilson states his intent to build an Alps Hole, which seemingly proves that Macdonald had his hand firmly in the original design.

Fair enough...let's put it back in and examine it, because once we do, it truly is the best part.   Ironically, it's also the exact place where Findlay proves to us who designed Merion.


"I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which HE REALLY IMAGINED existed on his new course.  He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot. "


Read carefully what Findlay is saying.   Is he saying "...which CB Macdonald designed", or "...which Wilson needs to construct to Macdonald's plans", or even "...which he plans to construct", or anything remotely implying less than the very act of imaginative creation??...of the very essence of DESIGN??

Who on any golf course project does the "imagining"?   

CB Macdonald and his ideal template holes certainly provided some of the inspiration, and impetus, and original direction for the creation of the new Merion course, but who took that ball and ran with it, and imagined the holes, and drew up multiple plans, and then constructed, tinkered, and dreamed and worked until the very original, very naturally based masterpiece was completed?

Alex Findlay makes it all very, very clear, despite his pained prose.

[David Stamm]

It is that word "others" that is problematic, and from a grammatical standpoint it is not absolutely clear whether Findlay means 'other holes at Merion' or 'other Alps holes,' as his preceding two sentences mention both. I re-read that part of the paragraph twice to decide what I felt he was talking about. For myself, I would tend to believe that he is talking about other Alps-style holes, simply because that was the last thing that he mentioned in the previous sentence.

This may have been responded to already, but how many Alps had CBM laid out when this article was written?

[Mike_Cirba]

It is that word "others" that is problematic, and from a grammatical standpoint it is not absolutely clear whether Findlay means 'other holes at Merion' or 'other Alps holes,' as his preceding two sentences mention both. I re-read that part of the paragraph twice to decide what I felt he was talking about. For myself, I would tend to believe that he is talking about other Alps-style holes, simply because that was the last thing that he mentioned in the previous sentence.

This may have been responded to already, but how many Alps had CBM laid out when this article was written?

David,

Please see my post above.   

The two inserted sentences about the Alps Hole I believe are the source of confusion in the proper interpretation of this article.

I believe when Findlay refers to "others" being "really great", he's talking about "leading courses" with "good golf holes" that Macdonald recommended for Wilson as a course of study abroad.   Basically, Macdonald laid out Wilson's overseas itinerary, which is how the story was always told.

[Phil_the_Author]

David,

You asked, "This may have been responded to already, but how many Alps had CBM laid out when this article was written?"

The answer is NONE!

"Others" CANNOT mean other "Alps" holes already designed by CBM. To say that it means other courses is also incorrect (IMO) as Findlay was speaking of golf HOLES in mentioning the "Alps" at Merion and not golf COURSES.

What I would like answered, if at all possible, and I wish that Wayne were here because he should know, is how close was Findlay to the Merion people and Wilson?

Findlay eveidently knew that Wilson was being sent abroad to study the courses BEFORE he went and had opportunity to examine both what was on the ground already and opine that what they had attempted had FAILED!

Again, that great sentence, "I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course..."

By the way, why has NO ONE mentioned that his FINISHING this sentence with the phrase, in direct reference to Wilson, "on his course" CLEARLY also CREDITS WILSON with the design credit for it? That it is NOT refering to the CONSTRUCTION of the course can be seen in his earlier reference in the same letter to Pickering...

[TEPaul]

"There is much debate about what part CBM played in Merion, but their is no debate that he was an advocate for the use of his templates. So, the simple explanation would be something to do with the templates and how Wilson's visit educated him about their applicability to the Merion site."


Mayday:

You're right, there has been and still is much debate about what part CBM played in Merion; and that debate which is far too much debate on that point, in my opinion, has all gone on and only gone on on this website! Is what part Macdonald played in Merion a necessary debate to have at this point? I suppose it is if those doing the debating have only small bits and parts of the recorded and chronicled details of the history of the creation of Merion, particularly from within the club and at the time it was happening back in 1911-1913. For those who are aware of all of that, rather than the just bits and parts such as some single newspaper article, there is no necessity to debate what part Macdonald played in Merion, and there never has been because the club itself actually recorded what he did do including the time he spent on it which was not longer than a day in June 1910 and another day in early April 1911 (that's all-in about 48 to 72 hours on site for Macdonald, the first day being an inspection of the property and about six months at least before anyone from the club who was assigned responsibility to create a golf course created any plans for the actual layout of Merion East ). If that latter fact doesn't tell golf course and architecture historians and analysts something important about the modus operandi of routing and designing a golf course, I'm afraid those historians and analysts aren't worth much in a productive debate on this issue of the creation of Merion East.

I know where all this started and why, and I think others on here who are even remotely interested in this subject should know it too. If anyone would like to know, all they have to do is read and review a thread in the back pages of this website. I believe it is entitled "Re: Macdonald and Merion?" posted by Tom MacWood back in 2003.

Review that thread and anyone can see why this Merion/Macdonald debate began on here, why it got traction and morphed into a larger debate and eventually an essasy about how Macdonald was never given the credit he deserved for Merion East and why Wilson was seemingly given too much credit.

Obviously the intention was to reveal new information or a new analysis of the history of the creation of Merion and who in the main was responsible for its design. Did all these debates produce and reveal any new and interesting information that can now be basically documented and deserves inclusion into Merion's accurate creation history?

Yes it did and the two salient issues are the fact that Wilson went abroad to analyze architecture in GB in the spring of 1912 for no more than six weeks to two months rather than in 1910 for the seven months that had been reported in Merion histories over fifty years after the fact of the creation of Merion.

The only other salient point revealed on the history of Merion East (and west) is the most interesting process and structure (organizational and financial) that was used by a group from the club (MCC) and a group of real estate developers to secure not just the land for the golf course but also the app. 200 more acres of the residential layout to the west and north of the course.

In my opinion, the other primary issue on the development of Merion East that has been revealed recently is the remarkably important part that the strong connection of particular MCC members back then to the PRR was and what-all that meant not just to MCC and Merion but to much of the Main Line of the Philadelphia suburbs! 

All of this all taken together essentially produced the finding, laying out, designing and constructing of Merion East and West, and it took a number of years of continuous work on the part of a number of people from MCC. With all that the fact remains in all that time C.B. Macdonald did not spend more than 48 to 72 hours at this site at Ardmore Pa. If that doesn't tell reliable golf course historians and analysts something important about the routing, designing and constructing of Merion East, then I guess nothing can or ever will.

[TEPaul]

"David,
You asked, "This may have been responded to already, but how many Alps had CBM laid out when this article was written?"
The answer is NONE!"


Phil:

While I very much doubt it has much impact or influence on whatever Findlay may've meant in his article posted above (June 22, 1912) about "Others", that statement of yours above may not be technically true unless one has some very intimate knowledge of the design and construction schedule of Macdonald's second course that used some of his "template" models----eg Piping Rock.

The fact is Macdonald was contacted in 1911 by the principles of Piping Rock to do a course for them and the course was opened for play in 1913, meaning it was probably well into its design and construction in 1912 when this Findlay article was written. Did Findlay or Wilson see Piping Rock and one or two of its holes that can be considered "Alps" iterations before this article was written? It's certainly possible but we don't really know that, do we?

It also seems to me to be a good question if some are claiming that "others" in Findlay's article meant other Macdonald type template holes AT MERION that Macdonald was responsible for and which Findlay claimed were 'really great' then why had not Macdonald done the same thing for this so-called "Alps" template iteration at Merion that Findlay claimed Wilson was struggling with? 

[TEPaul]

"There is much debate about what part CBM played in Merion, but their is no debate that he was an advocate for the use of his templates. So, the simple explanation would be something to do with the templates and how Wilson's visit educated him about their applicability to the Merion site."


Mayday:

I don't think there is any question at all that Macdonald certainly was a strong advocate of the GB template hole concept (copying famous hole PRINCIPLES) and he very likely was with Merion, at least in concept.

This is very much written throughout the internal administrative records of Merion in the early days (1911-1914) at least when they refer in their records to Macdonald. It would certainly seem that Wilson went abroad basically for that pupose (after-all MCC and Wilson very much did seek out Macdonald's advice in this over-all vein). There is no question either that early on numerous people from within and without Merion referred to at least three of the holes of Merion East by their template hole names abroad (Alps, Redan and Eden).

However, Wayne and I have felt for a number of years that for whatever his or their reasons, Wilson and Merion as well as some other American architects actively began to pull away from that Macdonald template hole concept and to go in other architectural stylistic and type directions with their golf course architecture. Wilson's unique and novel bunker style is just one of a number of good examples of this evolution.

[Mike_Cirba]

David,

You asked, "This may have been responded to already, but how many Alps had CBM laid out when this article was written?"

The answer is NONE!

"Others" CANNOT mean other "Alps" holes already designed by CBM. To say that it means other courses is also incorrect (IMO) as Findlay was speaking of golf HOLES in mentioning the "Alps" at Merion and not golf COURSES.

Phil,

At the time Findlay wrote, Macdonald had built Alps holes at NGLA, Piping Rock, and Sleepy Hollow and all were in various stages of opening/construction.

I don't know enough about the Chicago Golf Club  courses to say whether any existed there, but perhaps others can comment.

However, we also know that "Alps" holes existed on quite a number of US courses by 1912, including ones at Ardsley and a number of early prominent courses.    How many of them did Macdonald build, or was he responsible for suggesting?   We don't know, but we do know that Macdonald became fascinated with the idea of building his course of "ideal holes" around 1897.

We also know, from a 1905 New York Sun article about Macdonald's efforts to form a club to support his ideal course idea, the following;

"No one is better qualified to approach the assigned task, for besides being a true golfer, Mr. Macdonald has had a wide experience in planning out links.   He laid out the first course of the Chicago Golf Club, at Wheaton, where the distances and the order of the holes was the same as at old St. Andrews, and he has been called in as friendly adviser  whenever a noted course has been in construction in the east."

What I would like answered, if at all possible, and I wish that Wayne were here because he should know, is how close was Findlay to the Merion people and Wilson?

Findlay eveidently knew that Wilson was being sent abroad to study the courses BEFORE he went and had opportunity to examine both what was on the ground already and opine that what they had attempted had FAILED!

Again, that great sentence, "I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course..."

Phil, I'm not sure Findlay is saying Wilson or anyone else has failed.   I think he's saying that he's been over the terrain of the new Merion course and really can't find the type of abrupt rise that seems fundamental for the building of an Alps hole.   

I don't think Findlay was necessarily opposed to the concept; he actually built an excellent one at the 11th hole of Reading Country Club in PA, where an abrupt rocky rise is utilized extremely well.

I just think he's saying that if you're going to try to build something like that, you need the correct landform to accomplish it, and didn't see evidence of it on his walkthrough of Merion's property.

By the way, why has NO ONE mentioned that his FINISHING this sentence with the phrase, in direct reference to Wilson, "on his course" CLEARLY also CREDITS WILSON with the design credit for it? That it is NOT refering to the CONSTRUCTION of the course can be seen in his earlier reference in the same letter to Pickering...

Phil, I agree with your interpretation, but thought others might argue that it was simply a colloquialism when Findlay referred to Merion as "his", meaning Wilson's course.

To say that it means other courses is also incorrect (IMO) as Findlay was speaking of golf HOLES in mentioning the "Alps" at Merion and not golf COURSES.

Honestly, I think he was using these terms almost interchangeably, and I'll explain why. 

The whole novel idea that Macdonald came up with was to build a golf course of 18 "Ideal" holes.   Before that time, even the storied great courses overseas that Macdonald admired maybe had a small handful of great holes, but certainly not all of them.

The following New York Sun article from 1905 discusses all of this in great detail, but for our discussion purposes, the basic idea is that Macdonald would have sent Wilson to Prestwick, say, to specifically look at the Alps and "Cardinal", holes, and then to St. Andrews, to see the Eden and Road, and perhaps 2 or 3 others, and to Troon to see the Postage Stamp and Rail holes, etc., etc...

So Findlay knew his readers understood this, because Macdonald had trumpeted this idea for many years now.    I think when he refers to "leading golf courses" with "good holes", he's using the terms almost interchangeably, assuming the reader knows that when he says Prestwick, the reader knows he's talking about the famous holes there....the ones that Macdonald placed on Wilson's itinerary.

[mike_malone]

 Tom,

    What you say about Merion moving away from the templates seems consistent with my reading of this Findlay piece. He seemed to be alerting Wilson that the Alps may not work at Merion so pay close attention when you go to Prestwick. It certainly makes sense that Wilson admired CBM's use of templates at NGLA but that anyone who walks the Merion property can easily see that forms don't need to be forced onto that land. The land dictates the shape of the hole.


   I'm confident that the "others" refers to the other holes in GB that were recommended by CBM to be used as the templates.

   I imagine Flynn couldn't wait to get rid of the Alps hole!



   A 50th reading allows that he might be referring to the GB courses not just the holes.

[Mike_Cirba]

It appears Alex Findlay was definitely closer to this process than previously known, having also advised Hugh Wilson prior to his trip abroad, and then getting this tour of the course and time spent with Wilson on his return.

That shouldn't be surprising.   

We already know from previous findings that fellow Philadelphia A.W. Tillinghast was there very early on, as well, and is in fact the only outsider who made claims to having seen the "plans" for the new Merion course prior to construction.

On April 30th, 1911, a few weeks after Macdonald's second visit to Merion where he helped the committee choose the best one of five "plans", Tillinghast wrote;

"Recently I heard several players disucssing the prospects of the new course at Merion, and one stated that in his opinion it was futile to endeavor to produce a championship course in the vicinity of Philadelphia because the conditions were so unfavorable - the character of the soil, rank native grasses, worms, etc., etc."   

"This is sheer folly.   The conditions about this section are not at all iimpossible;  as a matter of fact, they are rather good - not as easily handled as some other parts of the country, but on the whole, very satisfactory..."

"I have SEEN enough of the plans of the new course as to warrant my entire confidence in the future realization of the hopes of the committee."

Tillinghast does talk a little about the involvement of Macdonald.   In May, 1912, he writes;



My guess is that the greenkeeper in question who Merion has landed is the renowned Mr. Fred Pickering.

Later, after the course at Merion opens, Tillinghast, writing in "American Cricketer", states;

"...I wish to say that I believe Merion will have a real championship course, and Philadelphia has been crying for one for many years.   The construction committee, headed by Mr. Hugh I. Wilson, has been thorough in its methods and deserves the congratulations of all golfers."

There is no mention of Macdonald.

For anyone who still believes that Hugh Wilson was simply a "constructor" to Macdonald's plans, it does beg the question of why Tillinghast thinks "all golfers" owe him deserving congratulations! 

[BCrosby]

Joe -

First, thanks.

Second, look at your 09/11/1912 entry. It's hard to read, but is Findlay saying that Pickering was the "architect" of Merion? If so, the reference to Wilson and his committee at the beginning of the same paragraph makes little sense.

Perhaps your text is clearer than mine.

Bob

[Mike_Cirba]

Bob,

Findlay is referring to Pickering's construction, shaping, and grow-in work.

There is a better copy of the article just above that one, but what it says is;

"The construction committee, consisting of Hugh I. Wilson, Lloyd, Griscom, Francis, and Toulmin, have done for Pennsylvania what Herbert C. Leeds and committee did for Massachusetts - built the two nicest courses in their respective states.  Fred Pickering made Wollaston, Woodland, and Belmont, Mass; Lake Placid, N.Y., and Atlanta, GA., and others too numerous to mention, but this, his latest creation, far surpasses any of his previous achievements.  He has had much of his own way in the planting of the right seed and in the general makeup of the course and to him we owe thanks for one of the prettiest courses in America."

 

[TEPaul]

Mayday:

Regarding your post #38, I think anyone who is really familiar with these so-called Template holes of Macdonald's is aware that many of those template holes abroad were not exactly something that could be or should be copied over here on sort of a blank canvas, if you get my drift.

Macdonald very much said as much and the history of the types of holes he used at NGLA that were basically templates pretty much proves that. For instance, he said he wanted to do a biarritz at NGLA but could not find a landform on the site that was naturally suitable for it.

The interesting thing about NGLA's redan and Alps is how he explained the landforms he found on that site that were suitable for those two templates and how they were naturally suitable.

An Alps hole or a hole sort of mimicing the type of hole it was abroad (Prestwick's #17) and certainly NGLA's #3 or Piping's #12 or #15 naturally had pretty much what it took to do an Alps hole or mimic the strategic shot values of THE Alps hole abroad. The landform used originally at Merion for their #10 obviously didn't naturally have what it took for that kind of hole or strategic mimic and apparently Wilson recognized that and also why! 


Furthermore, when Findlay mentioned that Wilson had imagined an Alps hole at Merion East that could probably be explained by some of the natural landforms at Merion East if they had been used in particular ways. There is no question that Wilson and his committee did "numerous" course routings in the winter of 1911 that they (Wilson and his committee) honed down to five different courses or routings by the early spring.

If, for instance, they had tried to come up what is now the 11th hole from the opposite direction (pretty hard to do in a routing sense with the lack of available land they had at that time in that particular corner of the property) or if they had tried to come at #16 green site before they blew the top off the quarry (also pretty hard to do since they needed to swap land early-on to get the distance on that hole and the preceding hole) those might have been somewhat NATURALLY conducive or suitable for something of a blind "Alps" hole approach.

[TEPaul]

Bob:

When a guy like Findlay said the things he did about Pickering (construction) versus the men who routed and designed Merion East (Wilson and his committee even if they were called by MCC "The Construction Committee") all I think he was saying is that Pickering was a very accomplished "professional" FOREMAN who ran the crews who actually physically built the course or those types of projects back in those days.

As you can see from the likes of Wilson and his committee members, as well as Fownes, Crump, Leeds, Thomas, Emmet, Macdonald, Whigam et al, those types of guys (the so-called "amateur/sportsmen" designers) as most of the photos from back then indicate did not exactly roll their sleeves up and start digging on bunkers and such. Almost invariably those kinds of guys were out there in suits and three-piece suits!

Men like that back then basically just didn't do things like that----eg they hired people to do those things and they simply directed them and oversaw them but generally through a foreman like Pickering or later Flynn who probably did get their hands dirty to some extent but perhaps even they tried not to.

It will be pretty obnoxious to some today, I'm sure, because it totally smacks of class stratification or even elitism back then but there was a very prevalent old saying back in those days in the ranks of those men and women mentioned (basically that old WASP world) that went like this-----"You do not WORK with your hands!"

To them that saying obviously reflected some kind of manual professionalism that many in that class just didn't think suited them or should be done by them.

Remarkable to contemplate today, for sure, but nonetheless completely true back then and more than a little historically documentable and confirmable! 

Even look at some of the interesting photos of Tillinghast on numerous sites; he was either dressed in a suit or he was dressed like he was about to launch out into the African bush on a God-damned SAFARI!! Do you think Tillie ever deigned to get his hands dirty out there or to even get off his shooting stick from where he waved his arms and hands and directed the peons to physically build what he wanted?!?

OF COURSE NOT!! As some of those old Grand Dames from that class back then frequently said in company----"That's JUST NOT DONE, my dear!" 

[Dan Herrmann]

Could Merion East have been the first truly "American" golf course, having eschewed verbatim copies of "old world" templates? 

[TEPaul]

Dan:

At the very least, the likes of Ron Prichard has for years maintained that the basic bunker style of Merion East created what he says is essentially the generic American bunker look.

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom,
That seems to be true after reading the articles.  The novice in me sees Merion putting together a committee of members led by Wilson that take inspiration from existing courses, but designing and constucting their own new course with an independent bent.

[BCrosby]

Thanks Mike. Very helpful.

Bob

[Mike_Cirba]

Could Merion East have been the first truly "American" golf course, having eschewed verbatim copies of "old world" templates? 

Dan,

One source I was looking at the other day called it the "most natural" course in the country upon opening.

I'll see if I can dig it up today.

I think it's very clear from Alan Wilson's report as well, that these guys knew that what they were doing was different, and intentionally so.

[Mike_Cirba]

Dan,

Here's the article in question published in the Philadelphia Ledger 9/14/1912 that called the course "natural";



Here's what Alan Wilson wrote on that topic;

"We should also be grateful to this committee because they did not as is so often the case deface the landscape. They wisely utilized the natural hazards wherever possible, markedly on the third hole, which Mr. Alison (see below as to identity—W.R.P.) thought the best green he had seen in America, the fourth, fifth, the seventh, the ninth, the eleventh, the sixteenth, the seventeenth, and the eighteenth. We know the bunkering is all artificial but most of it fits into the surrounding landscape so well and has so natural a look that it seems as if many of the bunkers might have been formed by erosion, either wind or water and this of course is the artistic result which should be gotten."

"The greatest thing this committee did, however, was to give the East course that indescribable something quite impossible to put a finger on,---the thing called “Charm” which is just as important in a golf course as in a person and quite as elusive, yet the potency of which we all recognize. How they secured it we do not know; perhaps they do not."

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