Alex Findlay Meets with Hugh Wilson / AWT chats with CBM

[Joe Bausch]

Alex Findlay lived in the Philadelphia area for many years and wrote for a newspaper called the Evening Telegraph.  He penned golf articles, sometimes as often as twice a week, usually under the headlines of "Breezy News About Golf And Golfers; Tales of the Links as Told by an Expert Whose Fame Spreads Over Two Continents".

I've made available on my web page many of these articles that I've retrieved from microfilm.  Currently I've processed those that I have from 1912.  All of them are here:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/archives/1912EveningTelegraphFindlay/index.html

Many are not easily readable because of the poor transfer to the microfilm.  And one of those 'Breezy' articles from June 22, 1912 contains info about the upcoming Merion course and Findlay meets with Wilson.  I've written the pertinent parts of that article below:

     The writer spent a pleasant hour last Wednesday afternoon with Hugh I. Wilson, wandering over the new Merion golf course, which he has spent so much of his time on.  His main object is to make this the king-pin course of Pennsylvania.  I am not yet prepared to talk about the possibilities of this new place because it is really just growing, and Fred Pickering, the coursemaker, will give it the finishing touches in the late fall.
     It will then be time to reveal to the world its features, etc.  Wilson has just returned from a trip abroad.  He visited all the leading courses, gathering what data he could anent the making of good golf holes.  I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick, which he really imagined existed on his new course.  He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot.  But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great.  Wilson became quite fond of Prestwick, Troon, Formby, Hoylake, Sandwich, Deal and Princes, but was sadly disappointed in St. Andrew, which, in reality, is a myth.  Golfers simply for sake "O' Auld Lang Syne" play over it once in a while.  It is worn out, void of grass, and the only thing that will stop golf balls from running all over the place are deep pot bunkers, cruelly placed, and when at the bottom of one of these, woe betide you!  Many of them are on the putting greens.  I know my second shot to the seventeenth two or three years ago should have rested at the pin, but, instead of that, it rolled into an unplayable bunker, and instead of playing toward the hole I really had to play away from it.  I was playing Andrs. Kirkaldy at the time (old Tom Morris' successor), and that particular hole cost me the match.  My nice three at the last hole came too late to be of any use.  But the traps are as fair for one as they are for others.
     Wilson had no end of a good time, and is sorry at not having gone over years ago.  It certainly broadens one's ideas.  He now possesses golf knowledge that will stand him in good stead for many years to come.  By the way, he negotiated St. Andrews (as keen as it was) in eighty strokes and actually registered a nice seventy-seven on the x,xxx-yard course at Sandwich, and that, too, against our own Fred Herreshoff, but Fred took more than 77.  Wilson made a study of the topography of the whole golfing country, such as H.G. Leeds did before he built our greatest American golf course, Myopia near Boston, and C.B. McDonald and his national course, at Shinnecock Hills, L.I.  We need such men like Wilson to help build up the nation's ground for the coming national game of golf.



On September 14, 1912 the Evening Telegraph published the following blurb about the opening of Merion which occurred on Saturday, September 12:

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe,

These are absolutely tremendous articles of wonderful historic value.   Thanks for all of your efforts!

It seems that Hugh Wilson had a little bit of the "Bobby Jones initial reaction" to The Old Course, but it is surprising to learn that Findlay didn't seem to care much for it, either.

I took the liberty to post your original scan, as well as a blow-up of the toughest to read portion;

[Peter Pallotta]

My goodness, Joe - what fine, fine work you're doing. Since my reading on these subjects is so limited I can't say for certain - but it seems to me that you've found an article that hasn't seen the light of day (or been referenced by anyone) in over 90 years.  Well done!

Peter

[henrye]

This article, if believed accurate, would seem to confirm David Moriarty's assertion that Wilson's trip was in the spring of '12.  It also implies that CBM laid out a number of the holes and that Hugh Wilson liked them.

[Joe Bausch]

My goodness, Joe - what fine, fine work you're doing. Since my reading on these subjects is so limited I can't say for certain - but it seems to me that you've found an article that hasn't seen the light of day (or been referenced by anyone) in over 90 years.  Well done!

Peter

P2, only the Free Library of Philadelphia has the entire run of the Evening Telegraph on microfilm.  And the quality of the material on reels is frequently very poor.  The images Mike posted above (which I sent to him and a few others in case they didn't believe what I had found  ) took quite a bit of work to be readable.

[Mike_Cirba]

This article, if believed accurate, would seem to confirm David Moriarty assertion that Wilson's trip was in the spring of '12.  It also implies that CBM laid out a number of the holes and that Hugh Wilson liked them.

Henry,

This article absolutely confirms David Moriarty's contention that the first Hugh Wilson trip to Europe was in the spring of 1912.

However, it doesn't imply, much less confirm the latter assertion.   I believe that the "others" that Findlay is talking about is other Alps holes, or other template holes, or even other courses Macdonald "laid out" for Wilson to visit during his overseas voyage.

He already makes clear in the first paragraph that he is not ready to even discuss "the possibilities" of the course at this early juncture, so it's highly unlikely that a few sentences later he'd term "many" of the holes at Merion as "great". 

Findlay also seems to be possibly questioning whether the Alps hole itself is actually great, or even conceding that it is, seems to be questioning whether a hole requiring a long, blind second shot over a large sand dune works as a good template model for an inland course and seems pleased that Wilson himself is now conceding that it is indeed a bit problematic.

[Joe Bausch]

This article, if believed accurate, would seem to confirm David Moriarty's assertion that Wilson's trip was in the spring of '12. 

Correct, IMO.

It also implies that CBM laid out a number of the holes and that Hugh Wilson liked them.

Incorrect, IMO.  I believe Findlay was referring to the other Alps holes that CBM had done already.

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe,

I agree...I think it's important to read the context of what Findlay is discussing..
 

I am not yet prepared to talk about the possibilities of this new place because it is really just growing, and Fred Pickering, the coursemaker, will give it the finishing touches in the late fall.
   
 It will then be time to reveal to the world its features, etc.  Wilson has just returned from a trip abroad.  He visited all the leading courses, gathering what data he could anent the making of good golf holes.  I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course.  He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot.  But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great.  Wilson became quite fond of Prestwick, Troon, Formby, Hoylake, Sandwich, Deal and Princes, but was sadly disappointed in St. Andrew, which, in reality, is a myth...

Besides, if Macdonald had already done the layout, what would be the need for Wilson to go through all of this trouble, why would Findlay write this glowing article about a "construction foreman" (when it's clear that was Pickering's job), and why would Findlay write that Wilson himself, "...now possesses golf knowledge that will stand him in good stead for many years to come.  Wilson made a study of the topography of the whole golfing country, such as H.G. Leeds did before he built our greatest American golf course, Myopia near Boston, and C.B. McDonald and his national course, at Shinnecock Hills, L.I..."

I also find it very interesting that the Opening Day article clearly confirms that Wilson and Committee "mapped out", the course, which clearly means routing and not just construction.

I will shortly post one other document that makes clear that Wilson and committee both Laid out (planned) and Constructed the course.

[Dan Herrmann]

Joe,
You've done it again - Great find!

PS - I love the last sentence in the article:  "On one of its sides parking spaces have been provided for members desiring to witness the matches without getting out of their motor cars."

[Mike_Cirba]

After the Merion East course opened in September 1912, a number of the members approached Edward Sayres with the following;

Notice that it's very clear that to these men who personally witnessed the whole thing, the term "Construction Committee" referred to creating something new, and they make very clear exactly who was "laying out and constructing" (two distinct tasks) their new golf course over the past many months.

[Brad Swanson]

Oh boy, a post regarding the history of Merion, fresh with microfilm evidence.  I think I'll pop some popcorn, get a cool, refreshing beverage, and sit back and see what develops.  

Cheers,
Brad

[Joe Bausch]

Man, that must have been one heckuva shindig for Wilson:  $7.50 per plate in 1913.  Yowser!   

[Phil_the_Author]

I think some serious and careful study of exactly what Findlay wrote is required BEFORE simply explaining away the part that it appears he is assigning to C.B. McDonald.

Findlay clearly is refering to Wilson's & the new course when he states, "I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course..."

Wilson's reaction to what was created at Merion AFTER seeing the real hole? That follows immediately. "He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot..."

This shows that efforts to imitate the great holes of the U.K. were being tried at Merion. It is THAT which Findlay seems to be clearly refering to next when he states, "But many of the others..."

These "others" are NOT on other courses but part of the MERION design. This means that his next statement, "as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great..." shows that C.B. had some definite hand in at least partially designing the original course.

I don't see any other way to interpret what Findlay wrote... 

[Mike_Cirba]

Phil,

Joe and I have had and discussed this aricle since Saturday.

Who exactly is giving it "serious and careful study" here and who is flying into a knee-jerk response hoping for lord knows what reason to prove that "Far and Sure" is not Tillinghast?

There has never been a question that the principles of the great holes were intended to be implemented at Merion, or that Wilson and Merion sought to benefit from Macdonald's specialized study,  knowledge, and advice in that regard.   I'm not sure how that's anything new here?

Think about it....the course at this point was at such a raw, unfinished state that even if the intention was to build template models, they were just then at the point of considering how to even do so (witness Wilson's newly learned comments about the challenge of building an "Alps" on the Merion property). 

Findlay states right up front that he's not even ready to fully discuss "the possibilities" of the new course.

Yet, your "serious and careful study" of this article over the past 20 minutes would lead you to state that the only possibility of what Findlay wrote at that premature date is that "MANY other holes at Merion ARE GREAT"?!?       

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

If Joe has not shared with you the definitive proof that i gave him several months ago that Tilly is definitely NOT Far and Sure, that is something you need to take up with him. There is a little piece of information about where F&S was during the winter of 1911 that Tilly definitely WAS NOT at. But that is a discussion for another thread one day...

I'm sorry that you have taken what I said a bit too hard. I am NOT stating that CBM designed Merion or that Wilson didn't. I AM stating that Findlay appears to be stating that CBM "laid out" or partially designing some other holes.

I can't see how you, or anyone else, can interpret what he wrote, and please take another look at my comments about it, to mean anything else. The question for me isn't so much one of WHAT he said, but WHY he said it.

Could he have been misniformed? Yes. Heck, I've seen a newspaper article that stated that Tilly designed Olympia Fields! Of course that is absurd and completely incorrect.

Your interpretation of the events there need to be rethought. You stated, "Think about it....the course at this point was at such a raw, unfinished state that even if the intention was to build template models, they were just then at the point of considering how to even do so..."

They most definitely were NOT at the point of considering how to build them when Findlay wrote this article, for in fact he clearly states that BEFORE Wilson went to the U.K. Otherwise he would not have written, "I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course.  He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot..."

I am of the opinion that this article, if completely correct, shows that the work that they did based upon CBM's advice may have been inferior in some places. That if CBM had laid out some of the holes as the article seems to clearly imply, then the only reason for sending Wilson over was because men such as Findlay must have convinced the committee at Merion that the work was not done well despite what CBM stated. Otherwise, again, why would Findlay have told Wilson to watch "carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick..." BEFORE he went to the U.K. as he stated, "I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland..."

Mike, you definitively stated that Findlay was refering to holes built or laid out by CBM at OTHER courses and this was not a reference to MERION. The structure of the snetences clearly indicate otherwise...

 

[Mike_Cirba]

Phil,

What I'm saying is that they are just now at a point of trying to figure out how to build them "on the ground" with their natural conditions.   I'm not asserting that they hadn't thought about it for some time prior.   Why would Findlay have termed himself unwilling at this juncture to even discuss "the possibilities" of the new course, and then say many holes at Merion  are "really great"??  It makes no sense.

Six months after Findlay wrote this piece, Tillinghast wrote under his own name for Philadelphia Record;

"Of course, it is too soon to critically analyze the various holes, for at present, they are not completed in any sense, nor will they be for many, many months."

Seven months after Findlay wrote his piece, Tillinghast wrote under his own name for American Cricketer;

To attempt an analysis of many of the holes today would be manifestly unfair..."

Not coincidentally, seven months after Findlay wrote his piece, Tillinghast (which you dispute) as "Far and Sure" wrote for American Golfer;

"It is too early to attempt an analytical criticism of the various holes for many of them are but rough drafts of the problems, conceived by the construction committee, headed by Mr. Hugh I. Wilson.   Mr. Wilson visited many prominent British courses last summer, searching for ideas, many of which have been used. "

Given the primitive state of the course a half-year prior, why in the world would Findlay write that  MANY of the holes at Merion "are really great", especially after saying he wasn't ready to even discuss "the possibilities" of the new course in his article right up front? 

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

Other than your continued incorrect attribution of what F&S wrote to Tilly, I COMPLETELY AGREE with everything that you wrote in this last post of yours.

Yet you still seem to be missing the ONLY POINT that I made... that Findlay clearly stated that when Findlay wrote, "But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great..." these holes were at Merion and NOT on other courses that he designed as both you & Joe stated.

Again, I am NOT stating that CBM designed Merion. I am stating that FINDLEY has stated that CBM designed SOME of the holes at Merion.

Was he wrong? I don't know, but this DEFINITELY must give pause to consider what has been written before...

[mike_malone]

 Philip,

   You are sure Findlay wasn't talking about the other great holes of the British Isles which CBM had laid out in drawings for all to see, particularly Wilson when he visited CBM at NGLA ?


    I tried to just back up in the article to find the first noun that "others" could be referring to.


                   I can't believe I have the audacity to get in involved in a Merion thread

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

I'm pretty sure that I am reading it correctly. Here is what I wrote:

Findlay clearly is refering to Wilson's & the new course when he states, "I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course..."

Wilson's reaction to what was created at Merion AFTER seeing the real hole? That follows immediately. "He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot..."

This shows that efforts to imitate the great holes of the U.K. were being tried at Merion. It is THAT which Findlay seems to be clearly refering to next when he states, "But many of the others..."

These "others" are NOT on other courses but part of the MERION design. This means that his next statement, "as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great..." shows that C.B. had some definite hand in at least partially designing the original course.

I don't see any other way to interpret what Findlay wrote... 

The reason for the above comments was because of the following exchange:

Henry E - "This article, if believed accurate... also implies that CBM laid out a number of the holes and that Hugh Wilson liked them."

Mike Cirba - "However, it doesn't imply, much less confirms the latter assertion.   I believe that the "others" that Findlay is talking about is other Alps holes, or other template holes, or even other courses Macdonald "laid out" for Wilson to visit during his overseas voyage..."

Joe Bausch - "Incorrect, IMO.  I believe Findlay was referring to the other Alps holes that CBM had done already..."

I completely disagree with their understanding of what Findlay wrote. The "many of the others" he mentioned were in direct reference to the one he already had... and that was the "Alps" hole on Merion. Like wise the "others" would be there as well.

They certainly could NOt have been "other template holes, or even other courses Macdonald "laid out" for Wilson to visit during his overseas voyage" as Mike considers as these "other holes" were designed and built by CBM. He hadn't done any work in Scotland, had he?

That they may be "other Alps holes" that he had already done as Joe mentioned also appears incorrect on its face. Anyway, by this line of reasoning, at the very least, one MUST give credit to CBM for having designed AT LEAST the Alps hole!

[henrye]

Philip,

I'm sure there are many ways to interpret what Findlay wrote, but I would agree with your explanation as being the most logical one.

[mike_malone]

    My reading was that Wilson "imagined" that an Alps would work at Merion but Findlay  wasn't so sure. So, he wanted Wilson to pay attention when he got to Prestwick. When Wilson returned he realiized it might be tough to "make" at Merion. However, the other holes that he was advised to see are "great".  What could this "great" mean? My guess is they were great for "making".

[Mike_Cirba]

The interpretation that this sentence means, "Macdonald laid out many great holes at Merion" and which suggests Findlay would make that statement about a golf course that was in such a raw state of both concept and construction that both he and Tilly were uncomfortable analyzing the course even a half year later also, once again, begs the question of why Alex Findlay, by all accounts a good and honorable man, who lived into the 1940's, wouldn't have set the record straight when everyone erroneously credited Hugh Wilson with the design of Merion over the next 30 years.

Was Findlay also part of the Philadelphia conspiratorial Syndrome??

I've seen more believable Oliver Stone movies! 

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike Malone,

I agree...he's clearly either talking about "others" as other examples of Alps holes built previously by Macdonald or more likely, what you mentioned, which is that Findlay believes other concept holes made famous in America by Macdonald and recommended to Wilson by Macdonald should work out great at Merion.

He certainly isn't passing value judgement on holes that are half built.

Also, when the course opened in Sept, Findlay's review does NOT mention Macdonald.

Joe...perhaps ypu can post that one as well?

[Kirk Gill]

Philip, the only thing I'd strongly disagree with in your comment is that the meaning is clear. To my eye it ISN'T clear.

Findlay writes "I advised him, preparatory to his trip to Scotland, to watch carefully the seventeenth, or Alps hole, at Prestwick,  which he really imagined existed on his new course.  He is now convinced that it will take a lot of making to equal that famous old spot."

So one has to decide, as Findlay continues, is he talking about Merion or "that famous old spot" when he writes "But many of the others, as laid out by Charles B. McDonald, are really great." It is that word "others" that is problematic, and from a grammatical standpoint it is not absolutely clear whether Findlay means 'other holes at Merion' or 'other Alps holes,' as his preceding two sentences mention both. I re-read that part of the paragraph twice to decide what I felt he was talking about. For myself, I would tend to believe that he is talking about other Alps-style holes, simply because that was the last thing that he mentioned in the previous sentence.

Still, it is certainly unclear enough for some to wonder............and some will !

If, however, Findlay was talking about Macdonald designing holes at Merion, surely this wouldn't be the only time in all of his writing that he would mention this?

[Mike_Cirba]

Four months later, Merion opens and Findlay does a course overview.

There is no mention of Macdonald, yet Wilson and Committee are credited for doing at Merion what Leeds has done at Myopia.   Fred Pickering's construction work is also highly lauded.