Shadow Creek changes

[Adam Clayman]

I won't be able to write much now, or answer questions extensively until I return to the land of the normal, BUT, the Changes made during the 7 month closure were subtle yet significant. From the addition of a new short game practice area to the removal of trees the changes, IMO, were all well thoughtout and in keeping with fundamental principles. The improvement to the golf course will be felt by every level of player. Simultaneously creating more freedom and more challenge for tour caliber players. In reality some 2-3 hundred trees were added to the property but you would not know that when comparing the old course to the new. Many trees were moved to open up off course views which are stunning. Many greens were re-oriented and bunkers brought more into the line of play. The greens and tees are all bent grass with ample space and features that allow the player creativity on approach. Some hillsides were cut back once again allowing for both visual and playability improvements. Team Faz (phoenix office)and GM Mark Brenneman have done an awesome job of taking the engineering marvel to new heights as a golf course through its architecture. More to follow in few days.   

[Nick Church]

I need to suck it up & finally make it to Vegas for some golf.  I had my chance before & blew it off.  Thanks for the update.

[Norbert P]

. . . creating more freedom and more challenge for tour caliber players.

. . . features that allow the player creativity on approach.
 

   Adam? Has somebody stolen your GCA password?

  Advocating changes for the tour players?  Did you bump your noggin?

  And does this "creativity of approach" refer to the greens fees?

 

[Jim Franklin]

Adam -

Thanks for the post and update. I know SC has taken a beating on this site, but I always enjoyed my rounds there and at what they accomplished.

[Adam Clayman]

SlagB,
 It was "on approach. I suppose it could've implied some hanky panky in the limo, but, sadly, it did not.

Seriously, the entire feel of the golf course has been changed by the freedom and by the careful expansion and re-positioning of many green sites. i.e. The opener; The green now sits closer to the creek on the left side. And a new tee back tee was moved and a fairway bunker added(?) that creates a cross carry affect. This is but one example of the many improvements to not only the look but the play as well. 

Even the creek rocks have been altered and through their evolution exude a much more natural flavor than the previous iteration.

Jim, I don't think you'll be disappointed in the changes which could be described as have taken a penal course and made it much more strategic.

[Jim Franklin]

Thanks Adam. Is Monte still the pro? He is a really nice guy and a really good player.

[Adam Clayman]

Jim, It was either a long time ago that you were there, or, I have never met Monty. The current GM/pro is in his ninth year there.

[Adam Clayman]

 I will share the stories of one of my playing partners, Monday. This gentleman has spent his life in Sports. A TV guy in Sport's halcyon days this gentleman had interviewed Clay/Ali some 400 times. He even broke the news that Clay had been drafted and Cronkite led the news with it that night. In his youth, he caddied for Venturi at Kittansett in the '53 Walker Cup. Today on the phone he re-counted a story about how Sarazen (?) had driven his ball onto one of the rock driveways , I believe on the 17th(?). Then proceeded to hit a 3 wood off the rocks over the rock wall and made birdie. He also talked about a day he accompanied JN when Jack needed to make one final walk-through at some Ohio (MV) course before final grass seeding. I asked about Desmond but can only assume the relationship had already deteriorated by then.

[Jim Franklin]

Jim, It was either a long time ago that you were there, or, I have never met Monty. The current GM/pro is in his ninth year there.

Mark has been the GM since I remember as well, but Monte was the Head Pro for quite some time. He was an assistant when Wes was the Head Pro and became HP when Wynn sold the course.

[Mike McGuire]

I think Shadow is much mproved better course after the changes (images from Feb 22) 

TEN

[Anthony_Nysse]

I think Shadow is much mproved better course after the changes (images from Feb 22) 

TEN

I wonder if there are any high rollers that are pissed because they paid $500 to play on a dormant, non overseeded golf course?

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Adam Clayman]

One of the additions during the recent renovation was a six inch sand cap.  The over-seeding was not done this year due to that. This will help the course play firmer.  On Monday, it was nowhere near as dormant as the above pictures, but it sure was playing firm.

If any people complained, (which I doubt) I'm sure the reason was explained to them. If that wasn't satisfactory to them, who cares what they bitch about?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Adam,
  I'm sure some of the reason why is wasnt overseed is overseeding is very hard on newly establish bermudagrass, whether sodded or sprigged. We did not do our tees here this year because they were sodded last summer. It is typical to NOT overseed on juvenile plants, but some people paying $500 may not like that answer. As stated, I'm sure that it was f&f...one of the many great things about dormant turfgrass!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX

[Tim Nugent]

Tony, why must the grass be green?  I believe one should critique the playing 'surface' not it's color.  Is it firm and fast are the criteria I am inerested in, not the color.  Does the ball sit up?

Adam, here's an interesting side note on the construction of SC.  I had some of the same Wadsworth contruction guys over at Koolau in Hawaii.  THey said that Steve Wynn had them bring out the trees (they were in wooden boxes) and set out along the  fairway, which he had them simulate with green hydromulch, then he moved the trees around to suit his fancy and redirected fairway lines.  After this exercise, all was marked and removed so the irrigation system coould be installed.  Then the trees were brought back and planted and the hole was grassed.

Trees tend to get planted for instant impact, what the effect after 20 yrs of growth is not a concern.  However, trees do grow and get big.  At this point, you have 3 options, 1) do nothing, 2) shrink the fairways to conform to the trees, or 3) remove and trim the trees to conform to the fairways.  The 1st is the easiest, the 2nd is the cheapest and the 3rd is the most painful because you have to cut down a live tree.  As my dad was found of saying, "you have to decided whether you want a gof course or an arboritum".

Finally, I think you are seeing a change in the TF design philosphy.  At the time of SC, his main competitor for commissions was JN.  Jack was routinely criticized for make his courses too hard for the average player.  TF made his designs more "user friendly" and more visually stimulating. Tournement golf vs. Member golf.  Now it seems that TF is tending toward more strategic designs with more risk/reward.

As an architect I was and still hold out SC as one of the watershed designs.  To transforn what was a non-discript piece of flat, barren desert into what it is now is perhaps the pinnacle of Terraforming golf design.  By Terraforming golf design, I refer to the architect completely altering the land to suit his own purpose not just altering it to highlight it's natural terrain.  Terraformed designs can be spotted by the way they tend not to emulated the surrounding landscapes. The Disney effect.

[Mike McGuire]

The dormant fairways played fine. Only downside is its hard to see the ball land and roll on them.

As for the green fee - usually if you are playing at SC someone in your group spends a fair amount of time at the tables. The green fee can be a comp for that time.

[Adam Clayman]

Anthony, Thanx for clarifying. That's what I intimated when I mentioned the new turf.

Tim, The trees were not cut down, they were moved. One of the more interesting original stories about SC is how Wynn had Spielberg come in with his new state of the art cameras and shoot the corridors. Then the trees were added on a computer. After all that, at the last minute, Wynn decides to triple the tree budget.

It cannot be stated enough how this course has transformed itself into a much more option filled test by adding, and moving, bunkers closer into the lines of instinct. Combined with the added width, has changed the course into a strategic contest. The last two holes had probably the least done to them.

The new short game practice area is to die for. Utilizing an untouched part of the 300 acre site.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tony, why must the grass be green?  I believe one should critique the playing 'surface' not it's color.  Is it firm and fast are the criteria I am inerested in, not the color.  Does the ball sit up?

Adam, here's an interesting side note on the construction of SC.  I had some of the same Wadsworth contruction guys over at Koolau in Hawaii.  THey said that Steve Wynn had them bring out the trees (they were in wooden boxes) and set out along the  fairway, which he had them simulate with green hydromulch, then he moved the trees around to suit his fancy and redirected fairway lines.  After this exercise, all was marked and removed so the irrigation system coould be installed.  Then the trees were brought back and planted and the hole was grassed.

Trees tend to get planted for instant impact, what the effect after 20 yrs of growth is not a concern.  However, trees do grow and get big.  At this point, you have 3 options, 1) do nothing, 2) shrink the fairways to conform to the trees, or 3) remove and trim the trees to conform to the fairways.  The 1st is the easiest, the 2nd is the cheapest and the 3rd is the most painful because you have to cut down a live tree.  As my dad was found of saying, "you have to decided whether you want a gof course or an arboritum".

Finally, I think you are seeing a change in the TF design philosphy.  At the time of SC, his main competitor for commissions was JN.  Jack was routinely criticized for make his courses too hard for the average player.  TF made his designs more "user friendly" and more visually stimulating. Tournement golf vs. Member golf.  Now it seems that TF is tending toward more strategic designs with more risk/reward.

As an architect I was and still hold out SC as one of the watershed designs.  To transforn what was a non-discript piece of flat, barren desert into what it is now is perhaps the pinnacle of Terraforming golf design.  By Terraforming golf design, I refer to the architect completely altering the land to suit his own purpose not just altering it to highlight it's natural terrain.  Terraformed designs can be spotted by the way they tend not to emulated the surrounding landscapes. The Disney effect.

Tim,
 Never said that it has to be green. I've only worked on courses with dormant, bermudagrass fairways and have no issues with it. I was just saying, the type of clients that SC might get, may expect it to be lush green for $500.

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