I may be naive, but I don't get the bailout right at #11 at ANGC

[John Nixon]

Watching the internet coverage of Amen Corner yesterday, I was surprised at the number of players hitting their approaches to the right of the green, and then struggling with the speed of the chip/putt downhill to the hole. A few others seemed to take it more to the right side of the green proper, and ended up with a more manageable third shot. Craig Stadler, in particular, handled it very well - hit it off the big bump, wind up a short distance off the green and make a good chip close for easy par.

I understand the reluctance to flirt with water left, but it seems an unnecessarily safe route that brings bogey into the equation all too easily. And I won't bother mentioning Tiger's hitting the green from the pinestraw.

What am I not getting - the difficulty of the shot, the fear factor of the water, or what?

[Kalen Braley]

John,

I think its just basic course management.

Option 1) Play safe with approach shot, try to get it up and down for a par, worst case scenario take bogey.

Option 2) Go at the green and if ball goes in water, now you take a drop in an awkward spot and you bring double bogey or worse in the equation.  And your now fighting to get it up and down just to save bogey.

[Anthony Gray]

  The miss to the left is death. The length of the 2nd shot and the downhill lie makes it a tough target.

  Anthony

[Jeff Shelman]

I was out there on Monday for the first time ever and No. 11 surprised me with how difficult it looks.

The hole is 505 yards on the card. It's downhill, but it looks like an awkward downhill. What I mean by that is that the player is going to end up with a downhill lie on the second shot, but it's not so far downhill that the tee shot is going to run and run.

The Thursday pin being way up front makes it more difficult as the water seems more in play than when the pin is further back in the green. I think because of the distance and the lie, some players don't like the risk in going right at the pin.

If the pin is further back today, I think you'll see more guys on the right side of the green.

[Philippe Binette]

The players don't necessarily go right on purpose...

As Johnnny Miller often says and I think he's right on that, downhill shots brings a tendency to pull the ball left for whatever reasons... so you have to fight that too.

[John_Cullum]

It's clearly much more difficult an approach than it appears on television. They had struggled with this approach shot for decades until the ball started going so far. Now they have added a seemingly ridiculous amount of length to put the fear factor back in. The pond does encroach into the line of play more than you can see on TV, and you have to drop in a drop zone; it's not a lateral hazard

[archie_struthers]

 


It 's really a lot harder than it appears on the tube, as John just indicated .  The problem is two-fold in that if youget it spinning just a little right to left and its a little short the ball kicks hard towards the water. If you carry it a little too far the ball can get to the back of the green really fast , and two putting from there is extremely difficult.   

Mr Hogan had pretty good control of his golf ball and if memory serves me he said something like this   >>>>  "if you ever see me on the green when the pin is front left, I made a mistake......

[Eric_Terhorst]

What am I not getting - the difficulty of the shot, the fear factor of the water, or what?

John, are you forgetting that all the current top players have burned into their brains the images of Larry Mize winning the tournament despite bailing right on the final playoff hole?  Norman was inside him, on the right edge of the green with a putter in his hands as I recall...

[Matt_Ward]

John N:

It's fairly simple ...

You miss left and you now bring into play DB = 6 or even more.

You miss right the likely highest number you can get = 5.

As others have mentioned the hole has been excessively lengthened but the real issue is the manner by which the Hootie-added trees on the right have really forcd the issue from the tee shot perspective.

[John Nixon]

Thanks for the feedback. I figgered I was just uninformed. I had heard the Hogan quote before too, but had forgotten it.

So what do ya'll make of Tiger's approach yesterday - brilliant, foolhardy, something ok for him, but not mere mortals, or what?

[Kalen Braley]

John,

Compared to some of the other stupidly insane shots he's pulled off over the years I'd only put that one at a medium level of difficulty...for him.

[Mike Benham]

But when the hole is back left on Sunday, where do they bailout?

Middle or middle right on the green ... I don't see why they can't play that same shot today ...

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

John,

You also have to consider the cant of the fairway in the DZ.

It's an intimidating shot without a fairway cant.

And, the fairway continues to cant toward the water down near the green.

As many have said, it's difficult to make a big number if you aim right of the green.

While you can't win the tournament on the 11th hole, you sure can lose it on the 11th hole, and that explains why discretion is the better part of valor.

[John Moore II]

Well, I think Hogan once said that if he hit the ball on that green, he'd pulled his shot from the fairway. Its a downhill lie, the green, I think tends to run towards the water, and anything a bit short or left is in the drink. Its a very difficult hole.

[Ronald Montesano]

Archie, William Benjamin Hogan always said "I'm not Mr. Hogan; that's my father."  Sad story, that one.

Bob Jones used to say "the reason for this bail-out area is simple; one day an unknown local will hole out from here to drive a stake through the heart of an Australian vampire."  That's all there is to it.

[Steve Lang]

  end of discussion

p.s. even at tour 18 that water looms large on what can be a fairly long approach shot.. 5 yards left of line and you're dead.. and looking at scorecard

[Mike Hendren]

I was there yesterday and the wind was coming hard from the left.  No way to get it close.  Tiger did so with a short iron on his THIRD shot. 

Mike